335 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 PAGE 3 WEDNESDAY MORNING SESSION 4 OCTOBER 19, 2005 5 Roll Call of Board of Directors...... 343 6 Preliminary Finance Committee 7 Report............................ 344 8 IM Committee Preliminary Report...... 344 9 RECESS..................................... 410 10 Report of Animal Meeting............. 411 11 Report of Advanced Judges Committee.. 424 12 Report of Artificial Insemination 13 Committee......................... 425 14 Report of Awards Committee........... 431 15 Motion concerning ADGA award 16 nominations.................... 437 17 Action on Motion.................. 438 18 Amended Motion.................... 441 19 Action on Amended Motion.......... 442 20 Report of Breed Standards Committee.. 442 21 Motion to remove the word 22 "approximate".................. 445 23 Action on Motion.................. 449 24 Motion for Board action on No. 2.. 456 25 Action on Motion.................. 459 336 1 Motion to refer Nos. 3 through 10 2 back to the Breed Standards 3 Committee and Action on 4 Motion......................... 467 5 Report of the Constitution and Bylaws 6 Committee......................... 481 7 Report of Government and 8 International Liaison Committee... 483 9 NOON RECESS................................ 498 10 Report of the History Committee...... 498 11 Report of National Show Long-Range 12 Goals and Policies Committee...... 503 13 Motion to accept the higher level 14 and the prices be up to that 15 level.......................... 536 16 Action on Motion.................. 538 17 Report of the Type Committee......... 538 18 Motion to allow the Type 19 Committee $500 to get bids for 20 the photos..................... 543 21 Action on Motion.................. 551 22 RECESS..................................... 556 23 Report of Judges Committee........... 556 24 25 337 1 Motion to add wording to the 2 Guidebook concerning complaint 3 hearings....................... 557 4 Action on Motion.................. 563 5 Report of Scholarships Committee..... 568 6 Report of Membership Committee....... 569 7 Motion to go through the 8 Guidebook and change all the 9 "junior" to "youth" members.... 569 10 Action on Motion.................. 570 11 Motion to create a Subcommittee 12 to deal with herd name 13 problems....................... 570 14 Action on Motion.................. 571 15 Motion to resume selling 16 membership directory to non- 17 members........................ 571 18 Action on Motion.................. 575 19 Motion to sell directory to non- 20 members for $30................ 575 21 Action on Motion.................. 576 22 Motion to verify that the 23 information on the renewal 24 form is correct and Action on 25 Motion......................... 577 338 1 Motion that only regular members 2 age 18 and over are eligible 3 to vote........................ 577 4 Action on Motion.................. 586 5 Motion that you must live in your 6 District for six months to be 7 eligible to vote............... 586 8 Action on Motion.................. 587 9 Motion concerning the mailing 10 address for members............ 587 11 Action on Motion.................. 588 12 Motion concerning authorized 13 signatures..................... 588 14 Action on Motion.................. 594 15 Motion on one vote one person..... 594 16 Motion to refer this back to 17 Committee and Action on 18 Motion......................... 597 19 Motion that the phone number 20 must match the address......... 598 21 Action on Motion.................. 599 22 Report of National Show.............. 602 23 Report of National Show Colorama 24 Committee......................... 611 25 339 1 Report of Production Testing 2 Committee......................... 615 3 Motion to renew the contract 4 for one year with Gene 5 Dershowitz .................... 619 6 Action on Motion.................. 619 7 Motion to renew the quality 8 assurance contract with the 9 DHIA........................... 619 10 Action on Motion.................. 620 11 Motion for a change in the ADGA 12 Guidebook that records are 13 made under test conditions..... 620 14 Action on Motion.................. 621 15 Motion concerning the 16 participating herds can be 17 used in ADGA's DHIR programs... 622 18 Action on Motion.................. 623 19 Motion to approve the brochure 20 developed by the performance 21 program coordinator............ 624 22 Action on Motion.................. 626 23 Motion that the EC approve the 24 brochure and Action on Motion.. 630 25 Report of Registration Committee..... 630 340 1 Motion to remove the word 2 "Dairy" from the Certificate 3 of Identification program...... 632 4 Action on Motion.................. 633 5 Motion to expand the Certificate 6 of Identification program to 7 include bucks, does and 8 Wethers........................ 638 9 Action on Motion.................. 640 10 Motion to add a new rule to the 11 Rules and Regulations 12 concerning rebreeding.......... 640 13 Action on Motion.................. 643 14 Motion that he wording be changed 15 to say Rules 2 through 11...... 643 16 Action on Motion.................. 644 17 Motion to remove Rule K.6. in 18 the Artificial Insemination 19 Section and Action on Motion... 644 20 Motion to change the wording in 21 G.5., Page 36.................. 645 22 Action on Motion.................. 648 23 RECESS..................................... 649 24 Report of Sire Development 25 Committee......................... 649 341 1 Motion concerning the ADGA 2 Genetic Awards Program......... 650 3 Action on Motion.................. 652 4 Motion that ADGA Genetics Awards 5 Program appear in the Appendix 6 of the Guidebook............... 652 7 Action on Motion.................. 654 8 Motion by the Sire Development 9 Committee to change certain 10 wording in the ADGA Guidebook.. 654 11 Action on Motion.................. 654 12 Report of the Shows Committee........ 656 13 Motion concerning Breed Clubs..... 655 14 Action on Motion.................. 657 15 Motion to change the wording 16 concerning the number of dry 17 milkers and senior does........ 658 18 Action on Motion.................. 660 19 Motion concerning the grand 20 champion is entitled to GCH 21 designation and Action on 22 Motion......................... 665 23 Motion concerning permanent 24 champion status and Action on 25 Motion......................... 661 342 1 Motion to add Rule No. 14 to 2 Page 70........................ 661 3 Action on Motion.................. 666 4 National Show Long-Range Goals and 5 Policies Committee Report......... 671 6 Motion that the Linear Appraisal 7 Long-Range Planning Committee 8 have a definition in the 9 Guidebook...................... 672 10 Action on Motion.................. 673 11 Motion to adopt a procedure to 12 assign final scores exceeding 13 the number 93.................. 673 14 Action on Motion.................. 688 15 RECESS..................................... 690 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 343 1 WEDNESDAY SESSION - OCTOBER 19, 2005 2 3 (The meeting of the Board of Directors 4 of the American Dairy Goat Association, meeting at 5 the Hilton Airport Hotel, Kansas City, Missouri, 6 was called to order at 8:00 o'clock a.m., with 7 President Saum, presiding.) 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: It is a couple of 9 minutes after 8:00. We will have the roll call. 10 ROLL CALL OF BOARD OF DIRECTORS 11 PRESIDENT SAUM: Cassette - here; 12 Charlotte Sankey - here; Pete Snyder - here; Helen 13 Snyder - here; Allen Bitter - here; June Bryan- 14 here; Kempe - here; Faircloth - here; Linda 15 Campbell - here; Weaver - here. Daniel Considine 16 is not here. Greg Morris, he is with him. 17 Robin Saum - here; Rucker - here; 18 Dean - here; Altheide - here; Jamie Burks - here; 19 Marsha Gustafson - here; Caroline Lawson - here; 20 Vivian Proctor - here; Laurie Petersen - here; 21 Strickland - here; Reyna - here; Korhonen - here; 22 Hendrickson - here; Rex Backus - here; Karen 23 Senn - here; Joan Rowe - here. 24 And Emeriti, Lelia Berry - here; Sally 25 Callahan - here; Bob Cassette - here; Harvey 344 1 Considine - here; Sheila Nixon - here. 2 We are going to start with what we 3 missed yesterday. We never got to the Finance 4 Committee Preliminary Report. We are going to do 5 that, and then we are going to do the IM 6 Preliminary Report since it impacts on our 7 Financial Report so much, and then we will start 8 back into the rest of the Committees. 9 So, Phil, do you want to go ahead. 10 PRELIMINARY FINANCE COMMITTEE REPORT 11 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: Good morning, 12 everyone. What I would like to do is, if you take 13 a look at the preliminary package that was sent to 14 you dated August 27th, in there you will have the 15 Committee report that was originally sent. 16 You have the Preliminary 2006 Proposed 17 Budget. Also, the changes from the 2005 Budget 18 that was adopted here last year that was coming 19 through with revisions and some explanations for 20 the 2006 budgeting items. 21 The statement of cash flow, the five- 22 year capital budget, on there I will spend a 23 couple of moments so that everybody understands 24 the new packet that was revised. 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: I want to recognize 345 1 Director Morris. He is in the room. 2 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: The costing of the 3 functions that have been used for the past for 4 review, and in addition an alternative method was 5 used to calculate membership, informational only. 6 Then there was the report of some of the scope of 7 the work that was done in the office, the ADGA 8 office, after the end of August. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: At this point, I want 10 to recognize that Director Dan Considine has 11 entered the room. 12 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: There are three 13 things on those items that are before you. First 14 of all, I would like to thank Patti Dean and 15 Rucker for coming down and assisting me. The one 16 thing that does happen in this period of time is 17 when we are down at Spindale, it is a start at 18 7:00 in the day and we end at 9:30 or 10:00 19 o'clock at night. 20 In order to get this work done, it is a 21 very intense period of time. I do offer the 22 opportunity for anyone on the Finance Committee 23 who wants to come down and take my place this 24 year, you can. Nobody has accepted that 25 opportunity. I am not quite sure why. 346 1 I thought it was a great opportunity to 2 spend 12 to 34 hours a day. I just want to go on 3 the record as chair, I don't need to continue 4 doing this all the time, and that somebody else 5 hopefully overtime will do it. 6 The goal is to have the people who go 7 there to rotate through so when we look at the 8 people on the Finance Committee who are coming 9 down, the first year, a team, they are Charlie 10 Shank and Patti Dean. 11 The goal is to rotate on through and 12 make those changes so that different people are 13 looking at it. To make sure that the Board 14 understands what we do there, this is the auditing 15 complete. We do not replace what the CPA does. 16 A Subcommittee of Finance is taking a 17 look at procedural items and reporting those back 18 to the members of the Board. That was the 19 original work and the original package, and the 20 basis of everything that we are going to talk 21 about. 22 What was handed to you yesterday, which 23 you can tell the difference because it will say up 24 in the right-hand corner "Revised by date of 25 October 17th, 2005." You should have received the 347 1 Revised 2006 Proposed Budget. This is the budget 2 that has come out of the Finance Committee to be 3 presented. 4 There should be the statement of cash 5 flow, which we will go through in just a moment, 6 and the five-year capital budget that the Board 7 directed us to be sure that we have done each 8 year. Last year we missed it and it didn't come 9 forward. 10 Then there was a series of 11 recommendations coming out of the Finance 12 Committee. I need to make two changes. There are 13 a couple of typos in here, or clarification 14 points. 15 No. 1 of the recommendations, when it 16 says recommended the registration fee of one 17 dollar, a discount of one dollar during the period 18 of September -- I get a little nervous when the 19 electrical is coming on and off. I am sorry about 20 that. 21 What I meant was when the comment says 22 no change in revenue, and here is where you need 23 to make a note. There is no change in revenue 24 when you compare it to last year's budget, and 25 when you compare it to the proposed one. 348 1 The wording is different than we have 2 used in the past based on the number of Directors' 3 concerns, the way we have been wording the 4 additional increase during the rush season, and 5 felt that it really is what it is and what we are 6 saying to our members. 7 Why it is stated that way is that we 8 provide a discount of one dollar during the period 9 of September 1st through March 31st. That is what 10 is before you. Just for clarification, we went 11 through that last year and we have not seen a 12 significant change. 13 During that period of time, there are 14 some 22,000 to 23,000 registrations that occurred 15 during that period of time, and so if you want to 16 use a number, if you are taking notes, that item 17 is not recommended because last year the surcharge 18 was approved only for one year. If that is not, 19 then it will be a $22,000 change in the revenue 20 line. 21 The other item that has been down is No. 22 5. That is the membership, use the discount for 23 early payment of membership dues by $2.50, 24 resulting in a change from $7.50 to $20 for 25 membership fees on or before December. That 349 1 should say 2006. 2 We do not intend this to take place in 3 this year's renewals, but next year, and reflected 4 in the 2006 budget. Based on the number, just a 5 little under 3,000 that paid earlier, the number 6 that affects is $7,500, is what is added into the 7 budget under membership. From what our level has 8 resulted from in that item, that is there. So 9 with those notes of changes, I will come back to 10 that. 11 I would just like to walk you through a 12 little bit of the proposed budget, and how it is 13 put together. It is a little different this year. 14 I printed out the column numbers at the top, so on 15 the revised one, dated October 17, 2006, Proposed 16 Budget, what I would first like to bring to your 17 attention is Column G. 18 It says "Original Budget for 2005." 19 That is the one that the Board adopted last year 20 that we have been working with. Column H is what 21 is coming out of the Finance Committee to be 22 revised for the 2005 year. 23 Column I is what the Finance Committee 24 is proposing for the 2006 budget. J is just a 25 space. Column K, because it is a significant 350 1 changed proposal coming through the IM Committee, 2 that the Committee felt that it would be the best 3 way to show the initial effects of what would 4 happen with the IM proposal, and that is if the IM 5 Committee recommendations are approved as 6 presented, that that would be the effect on the 7 budget for the year. It doesn't affect the income 8 side. It would stay the same as the effect on the 9 expense side. 10 We believe, as the Finance Committee, 11 that your revenues are relatively stable. We 12 don't predict any significant increases. When we 13 looked at the numbers in the 2006 Budget for what 14 we have done here, as I said, under Membership, 15 you will see the $7,500 has been added for the 16 reduction in the discount. 17 You will also see that we have brought 18 up the linear appraisal estimates to what we have 19 now become more traditional on the levels of the 20 past year. They have been very strong and 21 certainly were if you looked in Column D, that is 22 your actual for 2004. 23 We have been in the past estimating 24 $65,000 in revenue, and each year we just made 25 significant increases. So in discussion with the 351 1 Linear Committee Chair, there was no reason to 2 indicate a significant change in the level of 3 participation. We have now reflected that number 4 as a more traditional number. 5 Another item here is National Shows. We 6 have once again for 2006, reflecting a more 7 realistic number of what has been happening the 8 last couple of years. If you look at the National 9 Show for 2004, there is $124,000 in income. 10 In 2005, last year, we brought to you 11 and said we were going to break even. It was 12 $85,000. This year, the revenues will be about 13 $112,000. So we are setting these revenues in a 14 much more traditional way for our Association. 15 If you move on to the expense side, 16 these are the primary changes that are there. It 17 is more interesting to talk about the expense 18 side. I would first like to cover with you the 19 changes that we have in 2005, and then I would 20 like you to note a couple of things that two 21 Committees will come before you in the next couple 22 of days that will affect what is here. 23 We did not have the information when we 24 put this together. One is the National Shows 25 Committee, which you will see in this current 352 1 budget for 2005 is a $8,000 loss. Helen Snyder 2 has done yeoman's work to deal with it. 3 A bill has come from the facility 4 significantly higher than what we thought was 5 going to be there. She sent it back to the 6 original contract amount, which will bring that to 7 a break even. We will cover all those changes 8 after that. Helen Snyder and I were both sweating 9 what we were doing in this area. It looks like we 10 will break even. 11 The other item of significant change 12 that we brought to you from all of this proposed 13 in August, if you go down to Accounting and Legal, 14 if you look at the 2004 Actual, there is $15,000. 15 The budget for 2005 was $12,000. 16 I want to explain to you what that 17 number is. Our contract with Mr. Woody, the 18 election fees, $4,000. Our contract with Mr. 19 Martinson, the CPA to do the actual audit, is 20 $3,000. Our normal retainers with Walter Dalton 21 in the past has been $2,500. 22 Typically, an additional bill of 23 somewhere between $800 and $1,200, $1,500 a year, 24 depending on the work that has been there. So, 25 roughly, $12,000 is what we have in those 353 1 accounts, payable for those three items. 2 Based on the past year, the activities 3 of the past year and through what we have right 4 now, we believe that the budget will come in for 5 2005 at $30,000. What is before you for 2006 is 6 that the Committee is bringing forward at this 7 point a more factual traditional level, which 8 means not only the traditional from the standpoint 9 of what we have seen in the last couple of years 10 is that not only do we have the space 12 but there 11 are other reasons to have legal representation. 12 We have already been through the DNA 13 Committee yesterday, and there is the contract 14 there. Before we sign it, we will have to review 15 those kinds of items. So, we are saying we 16 believe without any other legal issues that come 17 before the Association, we believe that it will 18 well go back to the regular figure. 19 I want you to understand where the 12 20 comes from. We thought it would be a base year 21 for 2005. We now think it is going to be based on 22 during this period of time, and what we have gone 23 through. 24 There are a couple of other items here 25 that you might have questions on. Each one of 354 1 them, and that is why I wanted to get it out to 2 you early, and perhaps take a few questions. I 3 would like you to move over to the next page, 4 which is the cash flow. 5 Columns B, C and D on this are repeats 6 from what you originally received in August. What 7 I deleted from the August ones in order to get the 8 next columns over were historical numbers for cash 9 flow for 2000 through 2003. 10 You already have those at some point in 11 time, and we can't have them forever. I brought 12 forward for you at this meeting, and let's take a 13 look at what 2004 was. Let's review 2005, project 14 2005 through the end of the year. 15 Based on what we believe the revised 16 budget to be, and to take a look at 2006, and 17 assuming that we have taken everything through in 18 Column G, through the budget as coming through the 19 Finance Committee, which the Finance Committee 20 included, there are two columns, I and J, 21 reflecting the changes that we are going to push 22 on through here and relating to the IM Committee. 23 The specific note is what they will 24 cover more in their preliminary report, but the 25 $35,000 that was approved back in a postal ballot 355 1 will not be included. There will be a change 2 there making in effect that that is making that 3 capital. 4 The item for 2006 is that of the 5 estimated expense. Eighty percent is what was in 6 their proposal would be capitalized because it is 7 developing for us. So what is actually an expense 8 of that number, we have estimated $80,000, there 9 would be $16,000 that would be expense and $64,000 10 would be capitalized and depreciated out over a 11 five-year period of time. So, we need to realize 12 that that will be the effect. 13 Speaking with Gary Moore, I believe he 14 is going to address it more, his opinion of what 15 is truly capitalized in the documentation there, 16 we will probably have to do that due to the fact 17 we are going to revise what would be capitalized. 18 Based on that system, I will call it a 19 slight revision on what the request would be, to 20 make a little change in appeal or make a change in 21 the way something is reported doesn't truly add 22 value to our system. 23 What can be capitalized are items like 24 the developing of the ADGA Web site, clearly 25 capital, clearly has a life that goes on every 356 1 year. Going in and adding a report feature, if 2 you are looking at it, does not add any additional 3 value to be capitalized. 4 In discussion with Gary, we are going to 5 look at 60 percent being capital development 6 items, 20 percent will be maintenance kinds of 7 issues there, and another 20 percent being 8 management-related issues in the office. 9 What is before you right now is what 10 came from the IM Committee, and we will then make 11 the adjustments when we make the final report back 12 to you. 13 With that, I will have the Finance 14 Committee people to help me out with this, and 15 instead of going out, and when we do the finals, 16 you will say what line did you change or what did 17 you do? 18 We will use a little technology and 19 actually put up the Excel spreadsheet, and you 20 guys can see it and make the changes together and 21 go down that based on that which is before you. 22 The last item that I would like to take 23 and see if there are any questions at this point, 24 remember, we didn't go after that at the time to 25 provide the capital budget. What I have given to 357 1 you here is based on the results of the Finance 2 Committee, is that you will see the first column 3 is the way to come up with the last time the item 4 was acquired. 5 If it is a new item, or something that 6 is so old in the office that we would not, you 7 know, I don't have a date when it was acquired, it 8 wasn't there. 9 The next is to give some historical 10 information on what was purchased in 2004, and 11 what we believe will cover 2005 in total. Most of 12 those are actual numbers that come to a dollar 13 amount. Then the forecast for the next five 14 years. 15 One of the items that we are going to 16 have to deal with, and that is my mistake and I 17 didn't deal with Shirley, but I should have, what 18 the Finance Committee approved is that the capital 19 budget was put together for 2006, is the phone 20 recording system. 21 Shirley's communication and report to 22 the Board was that that information provided to 23 you on the machine. Most customer service 24 organizations and businesses have some system of 25 recording to make sure if there is a concern 358 1 raised by a Director or a member. 2 On issues in the office, we really have 3 no way at the current time to deal with making 4 sure what actually was being said. This is 5 verification so they will be able to correct some 6 of the problems. 7 If it cost $2,000, I missed it. We will 8 have to deal with it in a motion from the floor. 9 Shirley and I believe that the Finance Committee 10 would have approved it for you. I would report 11 that will have to come from the Board on that 12 specific item. The other items are coming through 13 based on what we know and our projections. 14 Any questions at this point? 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rucker. 16 DIRECTOR RUCKER: Just to clarify your 17 No. 1, we are not actually changing the cost to 18 register, we are just reworking what we are 19 already doing? 20 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: Correct. There is 21 no difference in what the members would actually 22 pay between '05 and '06. They would just change 23 the wording in effect. 24 PRESIDENT SAUM: Marsha. 25 DIRECTOR GUSTAFSON: On this online 359 1 change, in the wording on this, will this be 2 effective for one year or permanently? 3 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: We discussed that, 4 and what we really -- the issue was this is going 5 to be going forward. The Finance Committee needs 6 to review this online. At this point, we don't 7 really know what effect that online registration 8 is going to have in the office. We believe that 9 is the way to go. 10 I am not sure at this time, so what we 11 are looking at, one, the proposal is to change 12 that, and there is no time line in there. It 13 would be the ongoing rate. I guess, you know, if 14 it is the pleasure of the Board, they can do what 15 we did last year and extend it for another year 16 period of time. But at this point, we are not 17 sure what those are and what that will be next 18 year. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: Berry. 20 DIRECTOR BERRY: I just have a question 21 defining income. You have a line item for 22 registration. Since we approved the certification 23 of identification last year, and I have no idea if 24 there have been a bunch or very few, I am 25 wondering if we would want to in the future put 360 1 that on a separate line so that we can identify 2 what income came from identification certificates 3 as opposed to registrations. 4 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: That is a good 5 point. What we tried to do was, I think, becoming 6 a little problematic, what we tried to do is to 7 somehow have this budget look exactly like the 8 management report that comes to you at the end of 9 each time. 10 We can break out a few more accounts on 11 here, and for budget purposes we can break that 12 out in more detail and do it at a separate time. 13 I think that is a reasonable request. 14 DIRECTOR BERRY: Thank you. 15 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: Any other questions? 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. 17 Campbell. 18 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I want to thank Phil 19 and Patti for their work on developing the 20 material there. I know that was one of my 21 oppositions last year. I didn't feel that we had 22 an adequate representation of the cost of doing 23 business with the Association, so I think that 24 they spent a good deal of time and came up with 25 some good material there for our review. I want 361 1 you to know that I very much appreciate that, all 2 the work you did on that. 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: Thank you, Linda. We 4 are going to do an IM Preliminary Report. Gary 5 and Bryan, will you come up. They will give you a 6 demonstration on ROSS. They can then present 7 their IM Committee Report. 8 IM COMMITTEE PRELIMINARY REPORT 9 MR. MOORE: Good morning. It is really 10 great to be here, particularly when I grew up in a 11 little town just north of here, and I went to 12 school and worked and lived in Kansas City for ten 13 years. 14 Coming out here, I knew that the 15 convention was going to be at the Hilton Airport. 16 I knew in my own mind exactly where the Hilton 17 Airport was in Kansas City. I get in Monday, pick 18 up a rental car three blocks away, and speed up I- 19 29 to where I thought the Hilton was. I ended up 20 in Platte City. 21 I turned around, and there is a Marriott 22 to my right. I said, you know, that used to be a 23 Hilton. I pulled into the parking lot and after I 24 had convinced myself that the convention was 25 really at the Marriott, I called Bryan, who was 362 1 sitting at a bar having lunch. 2 I said, "Bryan, is the convention at the 3 Hilton?" "Yeah." "Where is it?" "I don't know." 4 I said, "Okay. I will find it." He called me 5 back a second later, and he said, "It is at Exit 6 112." I made it here. 7 Bryan doesn't believe this isn't my 8 first time in Kansas City. Everywhere I have gone 9 I have been lost. I should say I think I know 10 where I am going, but I really don't. 11 Anyway, this is the second year I have 12 been able to come here and present you some good 13 news about the computer system. Last year I think 14 I promised that we would be doing registrations by 15 January 5th, and that is what we did. 16 This year we have a system. We are 17 going to run over and give you an update, demo on 18 how it is working. We have come up with a pretty 19 big document and proposals. But the real good 20 news in terms of my opinion is that is having the 21 system completed is you guys can really start 22 thinking about how this computer system can earn 23 you some money, earn a return on investment, 24 either through a cost savings or the development 25 of new revenue. 363 1 This is just a wonderful opportunity for 2 you-all to start thinking creatively about all 3 those things that you wish the computer system 4 could do in terms of earning money and saving 5 money. We are at the point now where we can do 6 it. We really can. 7 Bryan, why don't you go ahead and get 8 the pony show on the road. I think we are going 9 to show you how registrations are working, and 10 then we are going to work from there on through 11 the rest of the system. Hopefully, in 20 minutes 12 or so we will be done. 13 MR. LENIHAN: First, I will just kind of 14 start off with some facts about ROSS that I 15 thought were interesting, because I was born on an 16 airplane. ROSS was designed fully by me, a 17 program fully by me. 18 Actually, I did hire some people, but 19 their work was horrible so it actually ended up 20 being certainly by me. I put in over 3,120 hours 21 myself. Calculating, that is over 90,000 lines of 22 instructions. 23 Actually, that is over 120,000 to be 24 technical. It is over 450 commands to the 25 database. The application goes through 170 364 1 different checks, application error messages. I 2 used all Microsoft technology. 3 We are at 18 figure by bytes for that we 4 are computing, and we multiplied the database by 5 nine times with information that we were tracking 6 on the goats. In the meantime, I expanded my 7 family from three to five children. 8 Some of the main advantages that I saw 9 on a full client server application, there are 10 many moving pieces to it. There are many 11 stations, so processing has moved throughout the 12 network. 13 We are fully utilizing all the computer 14 system and the capabilities and everything. It is 15 a line for design. What that means, it can be 16 taken off and put on a DT program. It is using a 17 full object model for the standardization of the 18 first program that is designed. 19 IM is a type of person. I believe audit 20 everything in, and it all changes to goats, and 21 the membership records, and also the events that 22 will allow us to answer questions, make change, 23 whatever, and do some office performance 24 inquiries. 25 This is a big plus. This is written in 365 1 data Windows technology. We will go to the demo 2 here. I will see if I can connect it. I did. 3 This is the mainstream of ROSS, the management IT. 4 This screen right here provides information to 5 Shirley and lets her know what it is doing in real 6 time, what the work they are doing as they are 7 doing it. 8 This system, as I say, keeps track of 9 things. Auditing, I can keep track of the system 10 here. This lets you know exactly what is going 11 out of the system. It is going out in all 12 different places. 13 We will jump right into it, and there is 14 a piece of mailing. The office staff would then 15 open up a folder, enter the postmark date that the 16 envelope was postmarked, and that is based on the 17 postmark date, not the date it was received, and 18 then it would enter the membership number, if they 19 wanted to register a goat. 20 This registration, I tried to make it 21 after the actual registration form, so it will be 22 keen for this. I will put in the original. That 23 is the goat number. There are a lot of 24 capabilities on ROSS. It is doing a search. 25 There is some of Gary's stuff here. 366 1 This applies to them. Normally, they don't have 2 to do searching. You just type in the number. If 3 they have the numbers, they can type them in and 4 just look. 5 That is a LaMancha, a white goat, and a 6 female. The birth date is '05, and there is one 7 buck and one doe. Then we click on the checking 8 button to do a couple of checks and most of the 9 170 checks are right there, and it knows. 10 I have the system knowing that I am not 11 the owner or the purchaser of the goat, so why do 12 I have the obligation in the system? That is 13 because I have got to transfer the information. I 14 check it out, and now it is how you register a 15 goat. 16 Had the goat had this sire and dam mated 17 on its birth date, it would have populated most of 18 the stuff for me automatically. Another thing, 19 too, even though LaMancha over here, this system 20 figures out based on the Guidebook the rules to 21 make sure that it actually matched and they don't 22 have two Alpines but two LaManchas. 23 And then you register and confirm the 24 price, to make sure the price is right. You click 25 to check it out. What you saw there, when you 367 1 went through and registered the damsel and 2 checking the sire, and what that punch down is 3 doing this arm. we have a feed problem, so it 4 actually is taking the time to check the feed that 5 goes with what feed, just to make sure everything 6 is correct on the pedigrees. 7 Then in here they can enter it on the 8 registration, and it will populate all the 9 information for all input in it. As you can see, 10 it gave you the changes to folder and IM on the 11 hold. 12 So that is when the registration 13 happens. We have some of the screens up here. I 14 tried to make this system one screen arrangement. 15 I tried to make it all the trends, one screen 16 arrangement, so the operator or staff member 17 doesn't have to jump from screen to screen. 18 Actually, they can search here either 19 herd. I was told not to come home. So they can 20 share, view the herd, who is buying the herd, and 21 they can see what they were doing and what the 22 information is, if they have paid their linear 23 dues for these. 24 They have the accounting history and the 25 folder history to the user account, signature, and 368 1 then what Committees they are on. My favorite is 2 to note, which Gary doesn't do too much, so it 3 changes. 4 Everything else on this screen, and we 5 go to the screen to change the information. The 6 same holds true -- I guess I do have to do that. 7 Now, the same holds true for the goat. You come 8 here with the general information. 9 It groups all the progeny together by 10 the birth date and who the siblings are. That is 11 it. Transfers, to transfer a billy goat, a billy 12 goat's history of the goat, you can look at it and 13 see the pedigree, which it will not do because it 14 takes a while. 15 Then the HR records, awards, and then a 16 note, and then if the goat had been entered into 17 ROSS. There is not much history here. It has 18 also the changes to the application. The goat 19 would be looked at right here, so we could see 20 them quickly. 21 Then we have a bunch of the next big 22 things to work on was the shows. This will let 23 you know the show entries, and I have narrowed it 24 down to one screen. We could just scroll down 25 from the work sheet. 369 1 Basically, the show's system comes in 2 and you put in the Goat Association and the show. 3 Now, you will notice the screen has gone away just 4 like that. I have the system result, and that is 5 only one result; if that is the one you wanted, 6 then you have it. 7 The show screen has added features here 8 for the shows. I don't know what the screen is 9 there. What it does, you have the show goat and 10 here it does show -- actually had sanctioned with 11 all these breedings in here, and you can flip down 12 on the breeds and the show, like it is restricted 13 or unrestricted. 14 When the goat is in a column, if they 15 want to know how their goat came in, I have a 16 detailed description of the process of every show 17 so we can go back and quickly figure out why your 18 goat did or did not get an award. You will just 19 have to know those rules. I do have a cross 20 reference for that, for the rules in the show. So 21 they do correlate to that. 22 Another bit of advantage is in the 23 auditing Actually, I will go back to that folder. 24 Another thing, before we get to auditing, is 25 imaging. Every document that is printed from the 370 1 system is saved to the system. So we know exactly 2 what the paper looked like when it went out to 3 you. 4 So, what I am doing here is to show 5 where this is going. When you call in, you will 6 see the report, and the staff will be able to pull 7 up the information that refers to you. We 8 recently designed it this way because the system 9 changes so there will be information on the 10 screen. 11 The screen is what we are looking at at 12 this time. We had to come up with a way to 13 preserve it. Here is my copy of my certificate 14 that was mailed. I really wanted to make sure 15 that was a copy. So, you can look at any document 16 that is printed. That is it on the screen. 17 Now, the other big advantage is the 18 auditing. Shirley and I have just this week have 19 been doing the auditing process. This is the 20 first year. At the beginning, we have got too 21 much data or we have got too little data, and now 22 we are shrinking it down to what we need. 23 To give a quick example of the audit, we 24 have all these reports that are available, and I 25 designed the whole report system. We have been 371 1 adding reports as they are needed. But the audit 2 report, with all the animal changes, what this 3 will do is going through and sending all the 4 animal changes that are within that time period to 5 supply, and the hand-out that I passed out to you, 6 on the last page is an example of a report that we 7 are able to do, what is called a spreadsheet. We 8 have to cut it down. 9 The date, the goat, the application that 10 was modified, who modified it? What kind of 11 modification was it? Was it at the staff's 12 direction, a customer, or the new one approved? 13 That one, that is staff, and that means they 14 corrected someone else's work, corrected their own 15 work, and was a customer error. 16 Then there is one we have added that was 17 approved, and we have determined how to determine 18 if the paper was correct, but we even mailed it 19 out. So, we are narrowing it down and getting 20 some easy reports for you guys. That is my 21 overview. 22 MR. MOORE: Any questions? 23 PRESIDENT SAUM: Pat. 24 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: I have a question 25 to ask you, the first part for Shirley. The new 372 1 ROSS screen, can you say the staff will be able to 2 process registration faster than they could under 3 the old system? 4 The second part is for Bryan and Gary, 5 both. Accessing the goat information, like you 6 were showing, where you look at the progeny and 7 changes to that pedigree over a set period of time 8 with an online capability, will I, as an owner, be 9 able to do that down the road? That is a two-part 10 question. The first part is for Shirley and then 11 the second part. 12 OFFICE MANAGER McKENZIE: The first 13 part, there is not a lot of difference in some of 14 the items that we complete as far as the time it 15 takes. The other is much faster. It is 16 definitely more manageable and we don't have those 17 problems that exist. 18 MR. MOORE: There is an addition to that 19 question in terms of the trade, there are a lot 20 more idiot groupings in ROSS than we had in the 21 other. In my opinion, it was unfortunate that we 22 had to live with ARMS as long as we did. 23 I think that is some of the problems we 24 are seeing now are being in the records and things 25 of that nature, resulted in lack of checks and 373 1 idiot grouping in the application. ROSS is doing 2 it right, we know that. Well, you may find a lot 3 of these things need fine-tuning. 4 The second part of the question, yes, 5 that is how we report it. We want to make it 6 available online. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 8 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: Does your report 9 still have to be entered in date of order? 10 MR LENIHAN: No, they don't have to be 11 in date order, but all the shows have to be 12 entered before they can be processed. What I have 13 done is go ahead and enter the shows, and I don't 14 know the shows, but once she gets done entering 15 all the shows in October, she can tell the fall 16 shows in October, even though she started entering 17 some of the ones in November. 18 But I mean just by the nature of the way 19 the awards are, what the reserve champion, you 20 have to process ongoing. I have added one step 21 further. In ARMS, the show had an error. You 22 actually had to go back to that show, take it and 23 manually change every show after it. 24 Being from a data background, that was 25 acceptable. If a change needs to be done to a 374 1 show, you go back to that show and you mark that 2 show. What that does, then it marks that show, it 3 strips the leg and everything, and then every show 4 after. Then it reprocesses every show after to 5 make sure your change doesn't affect anybody after 6 it. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Berry. 8 DIRECTOR BERRY: This is back to the 9 Certificate of Identification Program. I don't 10 know if you put it on an old PC like we suggested 11 when we started, or if you actually put it on the 12 ROSS system. I am just curious if it is in this 13 or if it is even done at all now. 14 MR. LENIHAN: We have not started work 15 on that. We have not worked on that. However, I 16 envision actually it will be a separate database 17 within our -- it will separated, but the staff 18 member will run it from the ROSS program. 19 DIRECTOR BERRY: That is what I wanted 20 to know. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rowe. 22 DIRECTOR ROWE: I have a question. 23 Could you tell us what you have in terms of 24 documentation on a staff training manual? 25 MR. LENIHAN: I have started working on 375 1 a staff training manual. Now that it is complete, 2 we will see how it will be used and I will 3 complete that. I have supplied Shirley with all 4 the source codes as of right now, and the 5 technical documentation is coming. I am pulling 6 that together. 7 If you looked at those codes and the 8 documentation my variable names are quite long. I 9 believe that is in variable goat names, so the 10 program is pretty self-evident. It is a two-way 11 program. 12 MR. MOORE: The documentation is not 13 just why, but it is okay. It is. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rucker. 15 DIRECTOR RUCKER: I guess Bryan just 16 told us that Shirley had a copy of the source 17 codes. Are we looking at any further safeguarding 18 of our software? 19 MR. MOORE: In terms of what? 20 DIRECTOR RUCKER: In terms of storage. 21 MR. MOORE: We are still using the 22 bank's storage for complete back-ups. We are 23 doing that on a daily basis. We have gone over 24 that. We are rotating back up and they go to the 25 bank, to the safe deposit box, and all of that. 376 1 The thing now is that they are doing 2 development and the source codes change every day. 3 We have relied on multiple sources for that. 4 Bryan is in control of that, obviously. 5 If there are no other questions, Robin 6 suggested that we take a brief preliminary look at 7 some of the proposals. The first one is the 8 Technology Road Map. I guess it should be 9 clarified that this is a think part piece. 10 It is probably more of a think piece 11 kind of hopefully that in your point of view 12 towards the possibilities of asking those question 13 of where do we go now that we have got a system in 14 place? 15 It should be noted that the intention 16 here and the document in a plan like this is that 17 there are changes and probably ideally you are 18 going to have a five-year rolling plan that is 19 modified every year, in fact, on the ground 20 evolved. 21 In terms of the so-called milestones, 22 well, the vision here, and it is just an industry 23 model, the greatest cost savings and the best 24 potential revenue stream in this model is where I 25 call it the self-service model. 377 1 Right now we have got the intermediary 2 model, the keyboard-type model, where everything 3 is coming in and you have a staff person between 4 your customer and the server. Well, the Internet 5 model, of course, is that you remove that staff as 6 an intermediary area. 7 You shift your cost back on your 8 customer. You streamline your costs by running 9 them into your own quirks. When you design that 10 system, you have got to make sure it is 11 bulletproof. 12 You want to maximize the number of 13 transactions you can get put into the system. 14 That is what happens when you pay your credit 15 cards online or make your plane reservations and 16 so forth. That is the basic model that we are 17 looking at. 18 In terms of these milestones, the first 19 group, let me just go to Page 8, the first three 20 that you see members only, electronic 21 communication, account access, that was part of 22 the $35,000 postal ballot. 23 We sort of had committed loss 24 expenditures against that until this meeting and 25 have a clear picture of what you guys want to do 378 1 on the proposal and whatnot. After that, I 2 personally, and I think it is the opinion of the 3 Committee, that online registrations, transfers, 4 service memos represents the technician on 5 investment. 6 Now, the figures that we presented in 7 this report are not real return on investment 8 figures. They are estimates of how we can get an 9 update and at least indicates where we are in the 10 program. 11 So, realistically looking at this 12 milestone, we are looking at things on the shows. 13 The herd management business, I guess you can call 14 it a visionary statement. That is something we 15 need to think about, what do we want to do kinds 16 of things. 17 It is absolutely nothing in this in 18 terms of what we want to do, in terms of 19 priorities, so on and so forth, attached. The 20 intent here is to get the lines of thinking about 21 every dollar that you spend on this system. 22 You can ask the question what is the 23 payback? I don't think you have been able to do 24 that in the past. You know, you can start looking 25 at things, really what is the impact on capital on 379 1 the goat registry? Can we offer any services 2 there? Can we bring in other breeds? Does that 3 help explain where this document comes from? 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: Joan. 5 DIRECTOR ROWE: Where in this timetable 6 would you envision an owner being able to go 7 online and print out a standard report or maybe a 8 customer report? 9 MR. MOORE: The standard report, we are 10 really looking at as the first group, what we call 11 an account access. That should happen real quick. 12 If you get people popping in there and dropping a 13 dime on the court, there is money coming in. 14 I just suspect that people will be 15 really happy to come in and spend a couple of 16 bucks to get a report rather than mailing it in 17 and waiting a week to get it. 18 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bryan. 19 DIRECTOR BRYAN: I guess that brings up 20 another question that I have that was not on here. 21 Exactly, what is on here, the restoration, of 22 course. What are we looking at charging for? 23 MR. MOORE: Well, the services we are 24 charging for now. From my perspective, I think 25 that here in terms of the cost savings with online 380 1 registrations. Let me run this out. You want to 2 get as many people as you can doing these 3 registrations online. 4 I think myself, and we have studied this 5 a little more, but I am pretty sure there is 6 another play in the cost savings. You can offer a 7 dollar discount on registration just to get more 8 people in there doing it, if you want to get 9 people to use it. 10 Daniel, I think, has some ideas on 11 charging for reports and things. 12 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: Well, we 13 didn't really develop any cost numbers in 14 Committee, but it certainly is something that has 15 to be done. I believe the Board has to decide 16 what the prospective pricing is. 17 When you were looking at the report for 18 pedigree, a progeny report, all the reports that 19 we now have listed with a cost and we will mail 20 them, we want the members to use to service 21 gathering information themselves. 22 We need to generate some revenue, but we 23 don't need to generate the kind of money that we 24 do if we print it and mail it. We have to have a 25 look at the pricing that comes to the Board. It 381 1 could be there is some fee or it could be that it 2 is just a percentage of what we now charge. 3 It has to be a way of pricing developed 4 that the Board approves when we go to all those 5 other services. 6 MR. MOORE: I think the cost savings are 7 great enough that, you know, the members will 8 receive a little payback for all the years we have 9 put into it. We can do it now. We can do it. 10 PRESIDENT SAUM: Linda. 11 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: Some of you, and 12 June may be thinking of this, too. I have 13 mentioned in discussion with members of the 14 possibility of a user fee for accessing the online 15 information. 16 I was not comfortable with yet bringing 17 anything as a recommendation to the Board. I 18 would like to see how we are actually operating, 19 how it works, what efficiencies we have in place. 20 Are there areas we can reduce costs on a report, 21 as Gary discussed? 22 We need to keep in mind that down the 23 road we may look at implementing the user fee for 24 accessing an account, which in return also gives 25 the user not only the information but the ability 382 1 to have discounted materials such as the report. 2 So, I think it is a little bit premature 3 to come up with that until we actually have some 4 actual time after the development to see what we 5 have and see what those deficiencies might be. 6 DIRECTOR BRYAN: Well, that is all well 7 and good, but when you are looking at the time 8 lines here, we are talking about the account 9 access, which he says they will be able to report 10 out reports in the first quarter of '06. That is 11 now. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Campbell. 13 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: Maybe that is all 14 free for the first year. Let's see what it does 15 and what impact it has before we make some of 16 those financial decisions. As long as we have the 17 discussion, you know, there may be changes as we 18 get into the program or as we get into the process 19 and evaluate, you know, how it is. 20 We could establish a fee now. I think 21 we need to be thinking about it. I think it is a 22 little premature to actually assign something 23 until we see what the effect will be. 24 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: I don't 25 actually agree with Linda on this. I think June 383 1 has a great idea. We are facing this now. 2 Throughout the year, as we have these conference 3 calls, it is the time line that is so important. 4 They never come into place. 5 Anyway, for a while it looks like you 6 may have already been on this project. It could 7 have been that he would be getting close by this 8 meeting in having some of these services 9 available. 10 Once we do put them on target, which is 11 next, it will not be long that we will have the 12 service available. To me, we need to charge right 13 away. I don't think it is free. Maybe the Board 14 just leaves it as a fee and the IM Committee comes 15 up with a pricing and review it another year. 16 That is a simple way to do it for you- 17 all. But, anyway, the Board I think needs to have 18 some kind of vision of how pricing will be 19 established, knowing that we will be doing a 20 service in pretty short order. 21 MR. MOORE: I know the system was behind 22 schedule, but we got a complete system. 23 PRESIDENT SAUM: Considine. 24 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: I was not 25 saying we didn't. 384 1 MR. MOORE: I know what you mean. 2 PRESIDENT SAUM: Shari. 3 DIRECTOR REYNA: I would like to offer 4 some material for people from doing paper and 5 pencil stuff into an online utilization. I work 6 in a behavioral research institute and we have 7 been very much over the past few years moving our 8 research into online interactive, a whole change 9 in this paradigm. 10 We have found the only way to do that 11 and make them use it, people don't change easily, 12 even when it is to their benefit, until there is 13 some pretty strong incentives. The only thing we 14 found that really worked for most people, and that 15 is what the banks did, is offer them incentives in 16 terms of money. 17 If you offer them incentives, it will 18 save them money, they will begin to change their 19 habits. It is not an easy thing to do. We also 20 have discovered if it is cost-effective enough, 21 they will even go to the libraries and so on and 22 check online if it hits the pocketbook. 23 MR. MOORE: A little follow-up on that. 24 It is not possible to have 100 percent of 25 registration going through the computer. I think 385 1 a proposed goal would be at the end of four or 2 five years to have a third of them coming through 3 the computer in plain transactions. We will be in 4 a different position, and any up from that is 5 really great. 6 PRESIDENT SAUM: Backus. 7 DIRECTOR BACKUS: You just had one of 8 your assumptions with us that was right here. I 9 want to not jump on Linda, because we have spent 10 quite a bit of time talking about this the other 11 night. 12 I think that I am in support with what 13 the other people say about transition to online 14 services. I think we have to offer some 15 advantage. It has to be an advantage on cost and 16 a convenience, and perhaps some other advantage I 17 have not thought about. I think those are the two 18 primary. 19 I guess I would like to know, you have 20 looked out four or five years, and you talked 21 about a third of our registration, which I guess 22 is like -- where is registration right now? 23 MR. MOORE: A third of that is proposed, 24 12,000. 25 DIRECTOR BACKUS: 10,000, 12,000 386 1 registrations, I guess I would like you to tell us 2 a little bit further how you came up with that 3 number. It is a rather crude estimate but I would 4 say that only half of the ADGA members have 5 Internet access. 6 The details, how convenient it is to the 7 people to utilize these services and how they have 8 to change their way of thinking about them. Can 9 you give us any input? 10 MR. MOORE: Well, the real question is 11 how many people with computers will use the 12 registrations? If you have a big herd 13 registering, what would be a big herd for a 14 registering number, 300 a year? Do people 15 register that many? The all-time champion 16 registration is over here. 17 DIRECTOR BACKUS: Anyway, what I am 18 getting at, it is not so much how many people have 19 computers, but how many people with registration 20 with computers do? My own feeling what is going 21 to get me using online registration is if I can 22 save a buck on every one of them. 23 If I don't save any money, it is just as 24 easy for me to take a pencil and fill out the form 25 and mail it in. That is my feeling and a pretty 387 1 strong feeling. 2 PRESIDENT SAUM: Morris. 3 MR. MOORE: My question is, if you are 4 going online registration, what is the time frame 5 for the person getting the registration papers 6 back? 7 MR. MOORE: What happens is on so-called 8 clean registrations, in other words, everything is 9 correct, it goes into the database, prints out the 10 next print run that night and out. 11 MR. MOORE: Thank you. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Lawson. 13 DIRECTOR LAWSON: I know that other 14 registries are all requiring a block. If you 15 register so many people you pay a set fee per 16 animal, and if you register five through ten, you 17 get 50 cents off per animal. That might be a 18 suggestion that would work for ADGA. 19 MR. MOORE: That is one of the things 20 you might want to consider. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: Hendrickson. 22 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: I know one of the 23 biggest advantages to me would be the time factor. 24 I think we can all agree we are busy and you have 25 a lot of things to do, you type up those things 388 1 and send them online to ADGA. 2 You give your credit card and they are 3 going to mail you your registration. Even with me 4 on the West Coast, if I do those Monday, I should 5 have them Friday and not Saturday. That is if I 6 sit down, I will have the form before me on my 7 computer, I can print it out, sign them all, send 8 a check or however I am going to pay for it, and 9 mail it to ADGA. It takes five days to get there. 10 If they are busy, they may not get it 11 started right away. For me, if I wanted the end 12 result fairly quick, I am going to utilize that 13 service. I think the speed factor will probably 14 be more than enough incentive for a lot of people 15 than the money factor. We have historically long 16 waits to get registrations. 17 DIRECTOR KORHONEN: Are we capturing the 18 staff time involved in these transactions so that 19 we might know how much time in minutes that we 20 might be saving and add 37 cents to that to come 21 up with some realistic number of value of postal 22 and that kind of thing as opposed to the staff? 23 MR. MOORE: The Finance Committee, we 24 made some suggestions on the work to the Finance 25 Committee a year or two ago. Last year we came up 389 1 with a unit cost for registration. With Daniel 2 and some other people's help, we came up with an 3 estimate of how much of that time is spent in 4 doing applications. 5 DIRECTOR KORHONEN: So we do know that? 6 MR. MOORE: These numbers are not good 7 enough today to rely on, but they are good enough 8 to tell us where they will be. Does that make 9 sense? The thing about credit card processing, 10 keep in mind people enter their credit cards and 11 that is handled by a third party and we get a 12 check at the end of the month. 13 So there is no office overhead in 14 getting authorization and all that sort of stuff 15 and swipes or whatever. 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: Senn. 17 DIRECTOR SENN: I think that I have a 18 couple of questions. One, how to implement it, 19 where a member can enter online with a PIN number 20 and process the registration? It is immediate and 21 easy and efficient for us. 22 Do we have a percentage of this for the 23 membership that is processing it and doing it that 24 way? Now that we have done that, just a 25 percentage? 390 1 MR. MOORE: We can find that out. 2 DIRECTOR SENN: That would affect what 3 we are doing. When we are talking about a user 4 fee, we are not getting any reduction in fee right 5 now by doing it. It is just the ease of using it 6 if we continue on. 7 Several of us back here said we are all 8 using that operation right now with the PIN number 9 and we are getting regular rate and it goes in. 10 As to efficiency, it is convenient for all of us, 11 and we get it back quickly. That is just one 12 question where the numbers will be. 13 If we did do it any further, if we did 14 reduce the fees, it would be just to do that and 15 make it. If we did reduce that, then my question 16 would be the percentage of that, how would that 17 affect our financial status since we are already 18 operating in the red with a further reduction for 19 actual registration? 20 MR. MOORE: You don't want me to answer 21 that, do you? 22 OFFICE MANAGER McKENZIE: Well, I was 23 just going to explain in the process of using the 24 PIN, we have to download those and print them out 25 and then take them over for processing. 391 1 MR. MOORE: It will probably create more 2 work. I don't use it because it is no fun 3 printing out forms. It is easier for me to take a 4 pencil and fill that out. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: Campbell. 6 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: Eventually, we will 7 be having efficiency, but we are not there. Once 8 the Association realizes efficiency in terms of 9 economics, my thought is we don't know what they 10 will need just yet. 11 I think we definitely will see 12 improvements not only the turnaround time, as Pat 13 has mentioned in getting it in and out, but the 14 accuracy. You will see the validation we go 15 through. 16 We have saved all those steps. The user 17 is doing that to have the staff go through each 18 validation step. That accuracy of information 19 before it reaches any printout is just a thing and 20 we will see the difference. 21 Real quickly, in response to Backus, the 22 number of members we see with e-mail, I will give 23 you my personal experience as a business owner. 24 There are far more people that have e-mail than 25 printed in the directory. 392 1 Trying to get them, if they have 2 computers or use e-mail, from my business 3 perspective, it is about 95 percent of my 4 customers have e-mail. Most of those are ADGA 5 members and some are not. 6 I think looking at that information and 7 trying to extrapolate and see how many actually 8 will use that, it is eschewed because there are 9 quite a number of people who will not. Because of 10 privacy, people will not put their e-mail address 11 in the directory. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 13 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: When we get back 14 to the issue of the road map, you are estimating 15 that by having the self-service model, you might 16 be 40 percent of the cost that it takes to 17 register an animal. 18 It would seem to me that if this service 19 is going to come online up in 2006, that those 20 will counteract any potential cost. I don't think 21 it should be an additional cost, but we might lose 22 money by doing this if we waited and got the data 23 collected that first year to see exactly how we 24 are doing if we give 40 percent off or 50, or are 25 we making money by not charging the members? I 393 1 think we owe it to our members to get that 2 information before we start charging them. 3 MR. MOORE: My own opinion on that 4 value, any delay in implementing this is an 5 opportunity for costing us. You know what I mean. 6 Every delay represents potential revenue loss. 7 That is what we are talking about. 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: Lawson. 9 DIRECTOR LAWSON: I think, too, you 10 could split it into two. You can do the 11 registration, think about charging for 12 registration, and then think about charging a 13 subscription fee for the other services. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: To just address the 15 cost, in the passed out budget was the online 16 registrations this year, and there wouldn't be a 17 cost savings to the customer until next convention 18 when we would see how many people did online 19 registrations, and rotate it, and what was the 20 impact of that. 21 We can come back to the convention next 22 year and we will have that data for you hopefully, 23 and then you can make the decision on what it will 24 be cost-wise. 25 Reyna. 394 1 DIRECTOR REYNA: Statistically, I don't 2 think you are going to get good data. For 3 example, if I don't get a price break, I won't 4 bother. If you want some statistical or valid 5 statistics on what the changes will be in terms of 6 financial impact, I think that you have to get a 7 bunch of people doing it. 8 As Gary said, it is not the number of 9 people that do it, it is the number of people like 10 I register a couple of hundred kids a year. It is 11 getting a lot of animals registered. For me, it 12 would have to have some financial benefit. 13 I know of our efforts in moving people 14 online. I don't think you will get a valid 15 statistical picture unless you do something to get 16 people using it. 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rucker. 18 DIRECTOR RUCKER: Well, I will disagree 19 with Shari. I would do it simply for convenience. 20 I do all my bills online, not because it is 21 cheaper and I don't want to buy a stamp. It is 22 just a whole lot more convenient. 23 Another possibility we might want to do 24 is to look at putting the whole thing in News & 25 Events and say will you register online? Will you 395 1 register online if we gave you a 50-cents 2 discount? Would you register online if we gave 3 you a one-dollar discount? Would you register 4 online if we charged you one dollar extra? 5 Ask the members what they will do. I 6 know that historically it is not significant, but 7 we need to go back to our members and see what it 8 will take. We can figure and speculate all day 9 long, but until our members tell us we don't know 10 what to do. 11 MR. MOORE: Speaking as a member, I 12 would much rather save a buck on registration now 13 than to fill out a whole questionnaire. Perhaps 14 that means we are at the point that we need a lot 15 more data analysis on this model. 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: Lawson. 17 DIRECTOR LAWSON: I have to agree with 18 Mr. Moore. Also, it seems like before every 19 meeting, and I promote this historically all year 20 long, most of the talk is what is going to come 21 out of this meeting in terms of expenses to the 22 members. 23 If we could actually come out of this 24 meeting with some suggestions for saving money, 25 even if it is 50 cents a registration, I think the 396 1 members would be so excited about that that they 2 would really take advantage of it. 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: Do we have any more 4 questions for Gary or Bryan on the IM report? 5 Korhonen. 6 DIRECTOR KORHONEN: We have had the last 7 two speakers and one said we need one dollar more 8 and the other one said we could save a dollar. 9 Have they talked? 10 MR. MOORE: We talked. 11 MR. PHIL CASSETTE: We talked. 12 Sometimes you might call it debate. At times the 13 discussion went into a discussion where I played 14 the accountant's role. I am very uncomfortable 15 without clear data of what to expect. 16 Without it, I would say to you that you 17 are simply approving something on an assumption. 18 The concern I have in looking at the technology 19 road map, there are three things to think about. 20 One is we have account access. What 21 does the member actually have right now? We 22 charge for that. Should we be giving them where 23 that comes online? So, from a financial 24 standpoint, the way I would look at it, account 25 access should give the member option to get stuff 397 1 right now, right immediately, and pay the same 2 amount that they now have to send. 3 Like Pat Hendrickson said, send a check 4 in to get this and send it back. We are charging 5 for stuff that they should be able to somehow 6 acquire what they are doing and be able to get 7 that. 8 Some of this is still coming through 9 what actually it means. I look at this when we 10 get on the online registration of this road map, 11 it is almost next year. It is almost the next 12 convention. 13 So with that, we have discussed that 14 there would be some reduction, but it would be 15 short. From a financial standpoint, I am saying 16 to Gary until we know, until we actually have 17 something, and maybe it is only X number, a 18 thousand, whatever, we need some number coming to 19 the office and then we would be able to tell you 20 this is the change, and what it costs to generate 21 a registration. 22 Now, let's price it. If this is what it 23 costs in the office, but because the next step 24 that the office now does is eliminated, that is 25 what it is going to cost you, and the Board can 398 1 make a decision. 2 If it is really way ahead of schedule, 3 and Gary pushes Bryan, and Bryan gets this stuff 4 done, then we can come back to the Board earlier 5 and say we now have the data. What do you want to 6 do? But at this time I am uncomfortable, and it 7 is all guesswork. You know, we have to have 8 assumptions. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: Morris. 10 DIRECTOR MORRIS: My question to Morris, 11 will you have it by 2-3 of next year? 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Part of that will be 13 dependent on what you do with the next proposal, 14 which is the proposal for the position to hire 15 somebody in-house who does those. If you don't, 16 we will not have it available. Why don't we move 17 into that, and we can answer your question. 18 MR. MOORE: Just briefly, the 19 infrastructure, if you will, is this. We don't 20 see extending this to the Internet to be that 21 difficult. 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bryan. 23 DIRECTOR BRYAN: Just for clarification, 24 you have bulled this as a preliminary report. Are 25 we actually doing business in the Committee now or 399 1 are we just giving information? 2 PRESIDENT SAUM: We have scheduled it to 3 get information, so you will have it tomorrow. 4 Once you have got the information, that is when 5 you want to make the decision. If you choose to 6 make the decision now, that is fine. 7 It was intended that you get your 8 information today, and these two will be around 9 and you will see them in the lobby with free 10 Internet access, and you can stop by and ask them 11 questions tonight or during the day and move from 12 here. That is the intent, but it is up to the 13 Board. 14 MR. MOORE: The position proposal is 15 actually through some discussions we had in the 16 office last August, I think, when we noted the 17 situation in the office where there is a 18 management gap. There has been for a while. 19 The Board has approved funding for a 20 junior-level programmer. It seemed to make sense 21 to combine those two into a manager of information 22 services and assistant. Obviously, it has a big 23 impact on the cost of what you guys want to do. 24 Roughly, the cost savings, I don't know, 25 are about half, somewhere in the range of, I would 400 1 say, 45 to 50 percent over a contract. Some 2 things to keep in mind is Bryan works too cheap in 3 terms of the contract cost. You are not going to 4 get people working at those levels for $45 an 5 hour. I wouldn't do it. That is in terms of the 6 contract. 7 In terms of salary itself, based on a 8 bit of research, even some of the companies that 9 provide annual salary surveys, it is a figure that 10 we are proposing that is actually below the 11 median. It is below the median for Charlotte. 12 I did not find data for one person 13 fitting the description of this job description 14 that worked in the Spindale area that was $55,000 15 a year. So it may seem like a lot of money, but 16 you have to keep in mind if you didn't have the 17 database, you guys wouldn't have anything to talk 18 about at these meetings. 19 You have got to spend some money to make 20 sure that we continue on. But it seems to me that 21 the choice is whether you want to continue down 22 the contract road or if you want to bring this in- 23 house and acquire some additional advantages like 24 an assistant for Shirley in the management area, 25 somebody absolutely loyal to ADGA. 401 1 We are pretty fortunate to have Bryan 2 now. He knows the Guidebook certainly a lot 3 better than me. He has a good idea how ADGA 4 works. I think you are fortunate to have someone 5 like Bryan to be able and willing to serve. 6 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rowe. 7 DIRECTOR ROWE: I appreciate all the 8 work that Bryan has done. I have been thinking 9 about the contract, that is sort of the work 10 coming from the Committee, how do we shift our 11 thinking relative to then in terms of a position 12 rather than a contract, in terms of a project 13 management, accountability; how do you organize 14 that now? 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: That is a good 16 question, Joan. We did talk about that at length. 17 We don't see the organization that we have been 18 using over the past year and how it is changing. 19 We have been successful with it, and we have week 20 by week conference calls, and we envision that 21 will continue. 22 Just because it worked well for us and 23 helped us meet our goals and keep Gary in the loop 24 and IM oversight, that position is a chair of 25 oversight over employees within our organization. 402 1 We don't envision a change in the way we have been 2 doing it. 3 DIRECTOR ROWE: Just a follow-up along 4 that same thing. How about if you have a person 5 in a position that some of the people come up in 6 the office and then how do you priortize? That is 7 what I am looking for conceptually. 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: Well, I think that over 9 the years, especially since Jim has been gone, we 10 have had to priortize in many of our conference 11 calls, because he got pulled in different ways to 12 do different items that have come up, and when it 13 gets to that we priortize with Shirley. Shirley 14 goes on the conference calls and so does Lisa. 15 MR. MOORE: If there is anything I could 16 add to this whole process is finding focus and 17 keeping focused, and sometimes I don't make 18 friends doing that. But you have got to do it. 19 DIRECTOR PHIL CASSETTE: Just as a 20 follow-up, the other item here that we discussed 21 was this development piece. There are specific 22 requirements that have to be made in order to 23 capitalize development cost. 24 You can't get at the end of the year and 25 say, oh, well, you know, we have 50 percent and we 403 1 will take the salary benefits at 50 percent and 2 put it there. That is unacceptable for the IRS 3 purposes. 4 You will have to maintain detailed 5 records of his time. It is almost like billing. 6 That is exactly what is part of the time or what 7 we found as development work. I have discussed 8 that as one of my major concerns that I addressed 9 with Bryan and Gary, that looking at the proposal 10 in that shift, and Joan, that is exactly what you 11 are talking about, that shift means we have got to 12 get with this. 13 It was coming over that you need to keep 14 records, to the point that you need to do it by 15 minute, as to whatever minute. Bryan has said he 16 has done this before, keeping those kind of 17 detailed records. 18 We also will know, and I know some of 19 that time size, but we will also know over a 20 period of time how much time does the 21 documentation take to do something like that, 22 developing that. 23 We will have a least a big chunk of what 24 he is actually doing, because it is capitalized on 25 meeting IRS regulation, and you have to keep those 404 1 detailed records. You don't become a contract, 2 but we have a different focus on how to detail 3 what he is actually doing. 4 There is no way of saying okay, this is 5 what I do. You have to keep that context in mind. 6 You have to keep total time records, and then take 7 that percentage. So we are really going to know 8 what he is doing on the development segment. 9 It is a requirement. We have no choice, 10 we must do it. He has been notified, and it is 11 now on the records here that he must keep those 12 detailed records. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: He knows that. He has 14 done that before and it would be, if we establish 15 that position, every pay period. When he turns in 16 his hours for the pay period, he would turn in 17 that detailed sheet. He has done that as 18 requested. 19 Backus. 20 DIRECTOR BACKUS: First, let me say that 21 I feel that Bryan has done far and away the best 22 job of any project management in the IM group. 23 Gary has been involved with ADGA from way back. I 24 really appreciate the fine work that he has done. 25 I think he deserves a big round of applause for 405 1 what he has accomplished for us. (Applause) 2 Now, on the down side. What I want to 3 say, there are going to be incidental things, 4 distractions from the objective of implementing 5 the long-term plan. It will be inevitable as 6 tomorrow's sunrise. 7 One that comes to mind right now, that 8 is the support for the new balloting process. We 9 have had a proposal for bar code ballots. We will 10 need to support those bar codes with some way of 11 reading the darn things and someplace to put the 12 data. 13 There is another thing we have not even 14 discussed, but it has been kind of high on my 15 order of priorities for balance on the 16 verification. I think we need to scan all the 17 signatures on the signature cards and provide a 18 retrieval system so that when the ballots come in 19 you can scan the ballots and pull up the 20 signatures, if that is the way it is going to 21 work. 22 All I am saying is without designing a 23 system for you and debating the merits of the 24 technology, there is something there that is going 25 to require some work. 406 1 MR. MOORE: Yes, that is very true. 2 That is a problem that the Board will have to have 3 priorities. We work according to what the Board 4 wants. The question here is, do you want to spend 5 35 bucks an hour or 65 bucks an hour doing all of 6 that stuff? 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bryan. 8 DIRECTOR BRYAN: I want to discuss 9 something that does not relate to Bryan's 10 employment or a paid position of employment. It 11 may be better at some other point we do that. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Is it IM related? 13 DIRECTOR BRYAN: It is. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: Go ahead. 15 DIRECTOR BRYAN: I would like to call 16 your attention, and I have been known to forget 17 figures, so excuse me. I know what I want to 18 start with is the year-end report, the second 19 page, the financial report for expenses. It is 20 under computer hardware. 21 I couldn't help but notice what a nice 22 laptop we purchased and I just wondered what the 23 requirement was that we went to that expensive of 24 a machine when there appear to be others that were 25 available out there at probably half the cost. 407 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: I can address some of 2 it, and I think Bryan can probably address the 3 rest. The laptop we had was, I think, from '96. 4 I believe it was a '96 laptop. If anybody that 5 knows anything about computers, it is an 6 inadequate laptop. 7 Shirley uses that while she is here. 8 She uses it while at the national shows. Any time 9 she travels with the national livestock across the 10 country, she uses that. The laptop that we 11 purchased was one that had the capability for her 12 to go interact with the office database. That was 13 a big thing. 14 We had to have a laptop that had that 15 capability. Unfortunately, those are more 16 expensive. I think that $2,100, does that include 17 in there the insurance for three years? 18 OFFICE MANAGER McKENZIE: Maintenance. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: The maintenance 20 contract for three years and the travel case for 21 it. 22 MR. MOORE: There was some software that 23 was not broken out. That was $500 or $600 for 24 Microsoft alterations. Is that true? I think the 25 computer itself cost probably, what, $1,400 or 408 1 $1,500? 2 OFFICE MANAGER McKENZIE: It was $1,600. 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bitter. 4 DIRECTOR BITTER: I have a question. 5 This question is for Mr. Lenihan. You have spent 6 two years building and completing a database that 7 your predecessors couldn't do in many, many years. 8 You are obviously very challenged by this thing. 9 If we were to hire you, put you on board 10 as an employee, how long would we keep you 11 interested in this? 12 MR. LENIHAN: You will keep me 13 interested very long. I have been in this field 14 for 12 years, and this is by far really the best 15 organization to work for. Shirley is an excellent 16 manager. 17 I have done consulting for her for the 18 last eight years. If I have a desire to go back 19 to the office, and a desire to work for Shirley, I 20 would go back to the office. I really believe 21 this is really a good organization. 22 You guys have a vision. You have an 23 opportunity to do some stuff. I am very strong in 24 politics myself. I believe that ADGA has a lot of 25 things that will benefit the United States, and I 409 1 want you guys to get there. 2 I see the position is the only way to 3 get you the technology you need in the budget that 4 you need. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: Campbell. 6 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: We have some new 7 Directors who may not recall or may not be aware 8 of the fact that in 2002 the Board did approve the 9 hiring of an in-house programmer, and we just have 10 not been able to implement that for various 11 reasons over the years. That actually was 12 approved as an item in 2002. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: Berry. 14 DIRECTOR BERRY: Following up on that, 15 Linda, was that the year that Debbie O'Brien came 16 in with a breakdown of the cost and expenses 17 around the United States? This seems to me from 18 my total recall that the salary is very close to 19 what she predicted at that time. This is several 20 years later. I think we are lucky. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: Gary. 22 MR. MOORE: We are lucky to get the 23 system we have with the price that we got it for. 24 PRESIDENT SAUM: Does anybody have any 25 other questions about the proposal for that 410 1 position? You will have an opportunity to ask 2 more questions tomorrow when they do the final 3 report. I think you have the revised one, should 4 have the revised items requiring Board action. 5 It says provide the year-end report. 6 That will take place tomorrow with the year-end 7 report. 8 MR. MOORE: I have to apologize. I 9 didn't realize that in the annual report you put 10 forth motions. When the roll was called, my 11 knowledge of Robert's Rules of Order is not too 12 good. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: If you have no further 14 questions, and I see some heads nodding, we will 15 take a ten-minute break and we will start with the 16 other Committee reports. 17 (RECESS.) 18 PRESIDENT SAUM: If the Directors will 19 take their seats, we will do the Annual Meeting 20 first, because Joan Vandergriff is in the room. 21 Then we will jump back to Advanced Judges in 22 alphabetical order, AI, and then awards. So I see 23 all the Directors are here. 24 REPORT OF ANNUAL MEETING 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. Here is Joan 411 1 Vandergriff with the Annual Meeting. 2 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: Well, I would 3 like to welcome you all again to the 2005 Annual 4 Meeting in Kansas City, and as I like to say, my 5 hometown. I would like you to give a hearty thank 6 you to our sponsors, DeLaval, where you were last 7 night. I hope you enjoyed the evening. 8 (Applause) 9 As I said, I think that was just a rare 10 opportunity. When I talked to John, who is the 11 liaison there, I said I hope you are on a three- 12 year plan. He said yes, he thought that was the 13 way things should be done. I am hopeful that we 14 will get them to have that sponsorship next year. 15 Another sponsor is Purina Mills, Inc., 16 Tractor Supply Company, who is a sponsor also for 17 the youth program. Our event sponsors were 18 Billygoat Gruff for the wine and cheese reception 19 tonight, and Patti Dean for the welcoming 20 reception. 21 Our special sponsors were MVE Chart, who 22 donated the oxygen tank that we will be auctioning 23 off, and the Wahl Clipper Corporation, who is not 24 only a Premier sponsor, but they have given 25 clippers for shows, at the national show and here 412 1 at the convention. 2 Our Premier sponsors were Caprine 3 Supply, Hoegger Supply Company, Intervet, Superior 4 Semen Works, Sydell, Inc., United Caprine News and 5 Wyojem. Other sponsors were the National 6 Toggenburg Club and Legal Printing, who printed 7 our program for a reasonable cost, and the Grass 8 Pad gave us some plants for the spotlight tent. I 9 wanted to read that into the minutes to make sure 10 that the sponsors get a thank you for this. 11 (Applause) 12 Our finance for the 2004 Convention, 13 you-all have the material and I wanted to review 14 it. We had a successful convention last year. To 15 the local group, we sent a check for $8,682.14. 16 The ADGA Host Committee received a check for 17 $8,877.15, of which $2,498 went back into the 18 convention accrued accounting, bringing that goal 19 up to the maximum of $20,000 level. 20 What that did was to pay for the LTV 21 projector which we took out of that account last 22 year. The rest, $6,379.13 went, in fact, into the 23 general fund. That is all for ADGA. We are very, 24 very proud of that. 25 Finally, as you know, and one more thing 413 1 we have no bids for 2112. I have received a 2 couple of inquiries from Convention Visitors 3 Bureaus, and that comes under the long-range plan, 4 but we are through 2111. 5 I don't think it is appropriate for us 6 to bid any further out. I don't think we will 7 probably be bidding until 2007 or 2008. I don't 8 think there will be any activity from that 9 Committee. 10 As you know, this is my last year as the 11 Chair of this convention. We worked incredibly 12 hard to make this a more professional and really 13 financial responsible Committee. I couldn't have 14 done it without our Committee members and without 15 all of the local groups who have hosted the 2002 16 in Maryland, and Nashville, and we were down in 17 Albuquerque, and here in Kansas City. 18 I do hope that you will give real 19 thought to whoever you pick as my successor. We 20 need someone who is strong, we need someone with 21 business experience, we need someone who has 22 really worked hard in all of these conventions, 23 through all parts of the convention. 24 I would like to tell you that Karen 25 Smith has been the Assistant Chair this year, and 414 1 it would be my recommendation that you consider 2 her as a superior candidate for this position. I 3 do understand that the Executive Committee is in 4 charge of choosing my successor. 5 I will continue on as part of the 6 Committee. I will continue on, if the new Chair 7 wishes, to be the Financial Chair of the Committee 8 and keep the books. I would like to continue with 9 the sponsors that I have built up a relationship 10 over the last four years, where we have 11 sponsorships. That is short and sweet, and that 12 is the end of my report. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: Joan Rowe. 14 DIRECTOR ROWE: I think we owe you a 15 tremendous thanks and I want to certainly 16 recognize you for both the changes conceptually in 17 the management of the Committee and the sponsors 18 that you have gotten on behalf of ADGA. 19 (Applause) 20 PRESIDENT SAUM: Anybody else have a 21 question? 22 Berry. 23 DIRECTOR BERRY: This is a question to 24 Joan. A lot of people have come to me asking 25 about whether or not the changes this week in the 415 1 schedule are something that are ongoing or whether 2 this was a one year only change. 3 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: Let's talk 4 about why that happened. The reason we went to a 5 Saturday through Friday as instructed, the Board 6 meeting is for three days and probably for the 7 near future anticipates that third day at least as 8 an extra day. 9 We have found it very hard to get the 10 Advanced Judges. They were meeting the same day 11 the Board met. That is why we voted the schedule 12 with the event judges on a Saturday or Sunday. 13 There was also the thought on the Advanced Judges 14 and the PTC, the Advanced Judges could mentor the 15 PTC. That was one of the reasons. 16 I have not heard anything derogatory, 17 but I don't hear a whole lot. I would recommend 18 that no matter what we do that we try to keep our 19 youth program Saturday, Sunday and Monday, because 20 it allows the youth to come in two days without 21 being out of school, rather than coming in three 22 days and missing two days of school. 23 We had a very large group of youth here, 24 and more than we have had at least in Albuquerque, 25 although that is not a populous area to choose 416 1 from. I like the schedule. Next year with the 2 type it might not be a problem. 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: Senn. 4 DIRECTOR SENN: One of the things I was 5 told when we were talking about it here, that it 6 was a Saturday through Friday schedule, our 7 options were that we could on the third day of the 8 Board meeting, which would have been Thursday, 9 which would not allow for optimum time for the 10 event of the training or on Friday, which would 11 have been during the time when the schedule would 12 have been the spotlight sale. 13 In a positive nature, it is better for 14 the host group to take all the animals that we 15 were going to use in the event to see that is 16 accomplished as well. It is sort of a combination 17 of effort. I don't think it was totally based on 18 the event judges. 19 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: I think about 20 the animals all being here, we were able to bring 21 the animals for Saturday and Sunday, and then a 22 fresh bunch of animals in on Monday, and we didn't 23 have people coming back on Wednesday, Thursday and 24 Friday and all of that. I don't know whose 25 decision it is to schedule for next year. 417 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: I think we need to know 2 because I have heard a lot of negativity on it, 3 that the schedule was Friday, kind of one day and 4 have a sale, and people that came in for the PTC 5 and for the events judges had to take an extra day 6 off work and they left. 7 They didn't stay because there was 8 nothing going on. I think the Board needs to 9 clearly hear what days we are scheduling for next 10 year. That can be decided by this Board. 11 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: That is fine. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Do you have what day it 13 will start and what days you have planned? Larry 14 is back here. 15 Larry, do you want to come up? I want a 16 real clear answer on the PTC this day and the 17 Board meeting this day. I need to hear that very 18 clearly. 19 MR. HEINRICH: As far as scheduling one 20 thing is veterinarians seem to want to go Sunday 21 and Monday. Junior veterinarians maybe don't have 22 the option of taking off, and they can come on 23 their day off, which is Sunday. We would like to 24 hold for that. 25 Youth, we would like to go Saturday, 418 1 Sunday and Monday and allow more kids. We want to 2 do a lot of 4-H and FFA. In Wisconsin, we have 3 got a lot of folks involved. The remainder of the 4 convention, we have no problem with holding what 5 we have had on previous years, but I think we do 6 need to discuss with the Board what your desire is 7 and report back. 8 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: Unless you 9 want to do the youth on Saturday, and that is the 10 only event that will be Saturday, and that will 11 work, too. 12 MR. HEINRICH: The only event Saturday 13 would be the youth event, and Sunday we would do 14 AARP, and the youth also, and then we would be 15 back to the schedule that we had previously. Just 16 for clarification, the youth, Saturday, Sunday and 17 Monday, the AARP would be Saturday and Sunday, and 18 the Board meeting would be Tuesday, Wednesday and 19 Thursday. So it is the same as this year. 20 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: No. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: We would have the PTC 22 Sunday? 23 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: Sunday. 24 PRESIDENT SAUM: And the Advanced Judges 25 are planning what? 419 1 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: Typically, it 2 would be on Friday, half a day, Friday morning or 3 Friday afternoon. 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: Senn. 5 DIRECTOR SENN: Probably with scheduling 6 that means that Sunday, Monday and Tuesday would 7 be the Board meeting? 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: That will actually be 9 the way the schedule would be. The youth would 10 come in on Saturday, give them a full day. 11 Strickland. 12 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: Could you give us 13 the actual dates? 14 MR. HEINRICH: Saturday will be the 15 14th, and then it will be the 14th through the 16 21st. We have it through the 21st. It is at the 17 Four Point Sheraton Airport Hotel, which is right 18 across from the airport in Milwaukee. The access 19 will be very good because we are right off the 20 interstate there. The PTC will be held at the 21 Wisconsin State Fairgrounds, which is ten minutes 22 away. 23 PRESIDENT SAUM: Berry. 24 DIRECTOR BERRY: Larry, just to clarify. 25 So then, the spotlight sale would be on Saturday? 420 1 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: Yes. 2 PRESIDENT SAUM: Tuesday will be the 3 PTC? 4 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: What we run 5 into is that Monday is the last day of the youth, 6 and what we did in Albuquerque, we had to provide 7 a welcome for the youth, and the youth program ran 8 its contest and the welcome youth banquet. 9 In Albuquerque, we brought the youth in 10 on Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Sunday was their 11 day of sessions and Monday they had their 12 contests. Generally, at the end of that we have a 13 youth banquet. We had a youth welcome banquet. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: Does anybody have any 15 questions for Larry for next year, any 16 informational? 17 Strickland. 18 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: Just that as we 19 looked at the Pioneer Program last year and this 20 year, it was much later last year because it was 21 done, I believe, after the youth welcoming event. 22 This year we were able to start it much sooner. 23 In terms of where that program will go would be a 24 concern of mine. 25 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: That was 421 1 something I talked to you about, to Sheila and 2 Charlie about. I thought this year we had the 3 session and we had a membership meeting. The 4 session was half an hour earlier and that way we 5 could get ready for the Pioneer Program. 6 In fact, almost no one left, whereas, if 7 we put it after something, it really makes it go 8 very late. People, like me, can't usually stay up 9 that late. 10 PRESIDENT SAUM: All right. Thank you 11 so much. 12 DIRECTOR NIXON: When are we going to 13 have the membership meeting? 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: The membership meeting 15 will be after the welcoming. 16 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: The general 17 membership meeting on Friday? 18 PRESIDENT SAUM: Nixon. 19 DIRECTOR NIXON: The first one next 20 year. 21 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: Probably on 22 Sunday. Sunday will be the first day of the 23 convention. So we could have a welcome reception 24 or dinner, and the first general meeting, and 25 perhaps like we did this time, the Pioneer Program 422 1 or whatever. One of the things you will need to 2 see is the layout of the rest of the week's 3 evenings. 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: Gustafson. 5 DIRECTOR GUSTAFSON: Some of the 6 Directors, just like everybody else, have to take 7 off work. It is a little bit difficult if you 8 have the membership meeting, which the Directors 9 want to attend, a day or two days ahead of the 10 Board meeting, because then it does become an 11 issue. 12 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: That is a good 13 point, and we will note it for 2006. The Board 14 meeting will be Tuesday. 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bryan. 16 DIRECTOR BRYAN: There are so many 17 components that go into bringing an Annual Meeting 18 like this and getting all the required things that 19 we have in completely without other required 20 things. 21 I am uncomfortable with us giving our 22 preferences because I don't see how the Annual 23 Meeting can take our preferences and make 24 everything work. It's hard enough without our 25 preferences, I think, as I hear you. 423 1 CHAIRPERSON VANDERGRIFF: I think as I 2 hear you, I hope I am hearing you are giving us 3 your requests but not your demands. I think that 4 part of the thing you have to understand is the 5 Annual Meeting Committee works with the local 6 group in partnership, so it will be a joint 7 decision. 8 And as I think we have structured the 9 structure for the convention, the Annual Meeting 10 in many ways represents the ADGA Board and ADGA as 11 an entity to the local group. We will certainly 12 be advocating for what you have requested. 13 In fact, if we find that the program 14 that the local group has come up with is so packed 15 that we have some conflicts, there will be some 16 compromise and some mediation. 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: They are requests and 18 certainly not demands. Anything else? 19 Campbell. 20 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I just wanted to 21 thank Joan for all her work. She has been a 22 dedicated worker. I know it takes a lot of hours 23 and energy and time. I want to let you know that 24 we appreciate all that you do. Thank you. 25 (Applause) 424 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: Next is Karen Senn, the 2 Advanced Judges Committee report. 3 Karen. 4 REPORT OF ADVANCED JUDGES 5 DIRECTOR SENN: You have my report in 6 front of you. We had our Advanced Judges Training 7 Seminar Saturday. We had quite a turnout, and 8 some very great approaches to our presentations. 9 We got lots of wonderful feedback from the people 10 participating. 11 You can see the name of the Committee 12 members that were available. We had a number of 13 people that we knew came in early. The other 14 thing, we had four people that they got approved 15 for exception for 2007 for extenuating 16 circumstances. 17 We were working on those certificates 18 and we have them in progress. We have got 19 actually one of our Committee members who 20 volunteered. So, do you have any questions? 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: Karen, some of the 22 youth asked about the judges and why they weren't 23 there. I know one was a change in schedule and 24 they couldn't go. 25 DIRECTOR SENN: One was a change in 425 1 schedule. One had just had surgery on their back, 2 to the neck ten days ago, and two were ill this 3 week. Thank you. 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: Did you have a 5 question, Tom? 6 DIRECTOR RUCKER: That was the question. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Thank you, Karen. That 8 brings us up to AI. 9 George. 10 REPORT OF ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION COMMITTEE 11 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: Hopefully, I can be 12 as brief as Karen. The Committee report is before 13 you. There are no items for Board action. Now, 14 there was referred to the Committee to look at 15 three Nigerian Dwarfs and collections were 16 secured, separations were made to AGS and CGS in 17 the ADGA program. 18 If you look under Items for Board 19 Action, you will see none. You will see there was 20 discussion in the spring on two proposed actions. 21 The first was dealing with those members who have 22 bucks selected where the semen processor did not 23 complete the ADGA paperwork, and we have come up 24 with a solution whereby having a member verify 25 that the information was correct, the owner of the 426 1 buck will be able to submit a collection form and 2 the others were similar with ADGA registered 3 bucks, where a buck was collected and there was an 4 ADGA registered buck that could be used in the AI 5 program without the collection form on file, 6 provided the AI serviceman was accompanied by a 7 signed statement from an ADGA member. 8 That is typical wording, is pretty 9 typical with what we do with native-type animals. 10 When it came time for a vote, a number of the 11 Committee members felt that these issues had to be 12 tied in one way or another with mandatory DNA 13 testing. 14 So there was not a Committee vote on 15 them. They do not come from the Committee for 16 recommendations. 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: Considine. 18 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: That is very 19 confusing to me, George. It looks as though you 20 did some work and came up with a way to handle 21 these situations, and then the Committee members 22 did not make a decision. 23 You were not able to come up with the 24 wording on DNA or some votes against adding DNA? 25 Where are we with that? Did the Committee come 427 1 back, and review the DNA more? What will happen 2 to those proposals? 3 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: I put those 4 proposals on the report, because if there is a 5 member of the Board that wants to make a motion to 6 accept them, the Board could take action on them. 7 I put them there to show that the Committee did 8 work to address the issues. 9 This was late on August when the 10 Committee came up with the idea that DNA testing 11 died. They were thinking that buck, where the 12 word processor had not properly filled out the 13 paperwork, would have to submit a DNA sample on 14 that buck analyzed, and have a DNA profile 15 established, and then the person would have to 16 find a second DNA sample, either from a collection 17 that was registered or non-registered with ADGA, 18 and the sample would be compared against that. 19 The same would hold true for the AGS and 20 the CGS for registered animals. There really 21 wasn't time to delve into that and come up with a 22 Committee consensus. As you know, we did have 23 three issues with the Executive Committee that 24 needed to be resolved through the AI, two of which 25 involved bucks that had been collected and the 428 1 processor had not signed the collection form, so 2 it was not on file. 3 The third was where the owner of the doe 4 in question had thrown away the semen straw 5 without writing down the collection data. 6 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: So we could 7 leave it without taking these actions and the 8 people on your Committee that were reviewing this 9 would be comfortable that is the way that we 10 handled those situations this year adequately, 11 that we have a review process in place where 12 someone can request acceptance of a registration 13 application, even though if they use a box we 14 didn't have the proper forms there? We have been 15 able to grant those, so that is probably good 16 enough system. 17 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: It is actually my 18 feeling that a number of people on the Committee 19 could not be comfortable with anything short of a 20 mandatory DNA test. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 22 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: Was that a 23 majority of the members? 24 PRESIDENT SAUM: Altheide. 25 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: It was not a 429 1 majority of the members, but it represented a 2 majority of those that responded to the final 3 vote. There were four or five, and you will have 4 to excuse me because a couple of people had voted 5 to accept this and then when the suggestion for 6 mandatory DNA testing was put forth, they said oh, 7 no, we have to change that. 8 It was roughly a total of seven that 9 responded that it be tied to a mandatory DNA 10 testing, and three who stated that this was 11 adequate. 12 DIRECTOR BERRY: So, if they were to 13 require DNA testing, it would be different from 14 how we treat the other animals in our registry? 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: Altheide. 16 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: It would be 17 different. Right now, if you utilize the service 18 of AGS registering the buck, you would have to 19 follow the rules which requires you to submit a 20 copy of the registration paper for that animal. 21 The problem with AI, how many people 22 buying semen receive a copy of the registration 23 paper when they buy semen? That would allow a 24 verification of the straw, and that was directly 25 reported on the AI collection form or on the 430 1 service memo. 2 PRESIDENT SAUM: Berry. 3 DIRECTOR BERRY: I have a follow-up. My 4 suggestion to the Committee is that we treat all 5 animals alike and that we not require different 6 requirements for different bucks. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Altheide. 8 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: That was the feeling 9 of the chair as well. 10 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rucker. 11 DIRECTOR RUCKER: A couple of situations 12 that will potentially personally affect me. We 13 have bucks that were collected when they were sold 14 as AGS registered. The bucks have subsequently 15 been collected and now registered. I have straw 16 active numbers. 17 Just a suggestion to the Committee. I 18 can provide a copy of a buck collection form that 19 contains AGS information, which if I understand 20 can be cross-referenced in the ADGA system. So 21 when that buck is used in the AGS number, and 22 subsequently submitted to ADGA, it could be 23 treated almost if it was using that buck with an 24 active collection form. 25 That might be the alternative. Those of 431 1 us that have bucks that were collected prior to 2 the day of recognition can submit our collection 3 forms and somehow cross-reference the AGS number 4 and the ADGA number. 5 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: Any other questions? 6 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. Thank you, 7 George. 8 Vivian, do you want to do your Awards 9 Committee. 10 REPORT OF AWARDS COMMITTEE 11 DIRECTOR PROCTOR: There is not a whole 12 lot to be said. As I said on my report, I didn't 13 do anything this year. That is not quite true. I 14 did a lot of work. I just didn't send it to the 15 Committee. 16 As we start off, we only have one 17 decision here, and that should be really easy for 18 you. I want to show you these pages are work that 19 I did on this Committee. Whoever does this 20 Committee again needs to go back to the rules and 21 straighten them out, because it was difficult even 22 here. 23 If you don't give the right thing to the 24 right people and you start with the secretaries, 25 when you should start with the Mary Farley Award, 432 1 which is the biggest award that you can give, it 2 is at the bottom of the list. 3 For one of these you give a plaque. One 4 is not stated and then you give another a 5 certificate, and these should be kind of 6 straightened out so you need to do a little better 7 job on that. Somebody needs to. 8 I started out with all of this to do it, 9 and then I decided there were people before me who 10 had chaired this Committee, and if they could 11 follow the rules so should I be able to. I got 12 into a discussion about that time after all of 13 this. 14 Anyway, my explanation was why it 15 functioned and it is true I have had computer 16 problems that you wouldn't believe, some of you 17 would, for years. I do want you, though, to make 18 this so I am aware and so a lot of other people, 19 that the awards you give are not well-documented. 20 The older ones, we don't have any 21 documentation. It would be nice if we did and 22 they not get it after they are dead. I think 23 regardless of what I did this year, this is just 24 sort of common sense. This will bring you down to 25 the decisions requiring Board action. You can 433 1 read that. 2 "No nominee for any ADGA award shall be 3 approved as a recipient without a supporting, 4 full-detailed written documentation accompanying 5 the nomination when it is first received." 6 Then the next one is, "If approved by 7 the Committee, this documentation will be provided 8 each Director, via postal mail, at least two weeks 9 prior to the opening date of the next Annual 10 Meeting." So that is whatever is your pleasure. 11 PRESIDENT SAUM: We have a decision 12 requesting Board action. 13 Campbell. 14 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: Vivian, with respect 15 to how this would work, the words "when it is 16 first received", if someone would miss something 17 and they weren't aware they needed to do this, for 18 example, we would accept it and follow up, would 19 we not? Isn't that the proper thing to do? 20 DIRECTOR PROCTOR: I envisioned this 21 paper being put on my desk. I have tried to avoid 22 that. That is your pleasure. Just so we get the 23 documentation in at a reasonable time, two weeks 24 would give you time to think about the people, 25 because some people get it that should not have 434 1 and others that deserve it don't get it because 2 nobody knows who they are or where they are. 3 Nobody contacted me this year to ask for 4 this award, except Robin. Had it not been for 5 her, this wouldn't have gotten done. My computer 6 wasn't working at the time. I couldn't answer any 7 e-mails. 8 Robin made the nomination and Robin then 9 also gets the credit for all the work done on the 10 Committee. I don't know if we should make the 11 award now or do so at the dinner. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: I don't want to say the 13 name, but you-all got it. It was in front of you 14 earlier. That was the form that I submitted, the 15 online form to the Committee. I believe they 16 voted unanimously. 17 The person receiving the award is 18 leaving tomorrow, but they will be here for the 19 Committee report, and when they do that, that is 20 when I will make the presentation. 21 Pete Snyder. 22 DIRECTOR PETE SNYDER: I would like to 23 see these taken separately. I agree with (a) but 24 (b), if you provide this information to the Board 25 of Directors, several of these awards are supposed 435 1 to be secret. If you provide each of the 2 Directors, that is not a surprise anymore when you 3 give the award. 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bitter. 5 DIRECTOR BITTER: Madam Chair, for 6 Vivian, would you mind if we restated this rule? 7 It will appear in the Guidebook. 8 DIRECTOR PROCTOR: I don't mind at all. 9 DIRECTOR BITTER: To say, "All nominees 10 for ADGA awards shall be approved as recipients 11 with full supporting, full detailed written 12 documentation accompanying the nomination." 13 DIRECTOR PROCTOR: That is better. 14 DIRECTOR BITTER: Nominations as they 15 are received. 16 DIRECTOR PROCTOR: That is better. 17 DIRECTOR BITTER: I have a problem with 18 starting out a sentence with a "no" on it. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: "All nominees of ADGA 20 awards shall be approved as a recipient with --" 21 DIRECTOR BITTER: "As recipients with 22 supporting, full detailed written documentation 23 accompanying the nomination when they are 24 received." 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: You want to take out 436 1 "also"? 2 DIRECTOR BITTER: I think Linda spoke to 3 that. 4 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I am not quite sure 5 we are there yet. The approval process is 6 different than the receipt. We can receive the 7 applications and what we are saying is we want 8 that information to accompany the submission of 9 the form of the nomination. So, I am not quite 10 sure if we would be able to do that with what you 11 have. 12 DIRECTOR BITTER: I wanted to take the 13 negativity out of the statement. You are welcome 14 to work our problems out. 15 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: Will you just repeat 16 it one more time, please? 17 DIRECTOR BITTER: "All nominees for ADGA 18 awards shall be approved as recipients with 19 supporting full detailed written documentation 20 accompanying the nominations when they are 21 received." 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: Campbell. 23 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: It sounds like we 24 are approving them as soon as they are received. 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: Caroline Lawson. 437 1 DIRECTOR LAWSON: "All nominations for 2 any ADGA award shall be submitted with full 3 supporting details and written documentation 4 accompanying their nomination." 5 DIRECTOR BITTER: That is fine with me. 6 Thank you. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: I have, "All 8 nominations for any ADGA award shall be submitted 9 with full supporting detailed written 10 documentation." Is that the end? I think that is 11 significantly different than what is on your 12 report. 13 Do we want to try to do a motion for 14 that so it is cleaner with a second? I think that 15 would be best. 16 Is that a motion, Caroline? 17 DIRECTOR LAWSON: Yes. 18 PRESIDENT SAUM: There is a motion, and 19 is there a second? 20 DIRECTOR BITTER: I second it. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: It has been seconded by 22 Bitter. Any discussion? All those in favor of 23 the motion that all nominations for any ADGA award 24 shall be submitted with full supporting detailed 25 written documentation will say "aye". Any 438 1 opposed? Any abstentions? The motion passed. 2 Reyna. 3 DIRECTOR REYNA: I just want to point 4 out that I wrote up some forms and some 5 instructions and some suggestions to make it 6 easier a couple of years ago, and they are on the 7 actual Web site. 8 In order for anybody to easily document 9 these Guideline forms that are actually available 10 on the Web site can download them. 11 PRESIDENT SAUM: I actually used that 12 form, Shari. 13 DIRECTOR REYNA: I didn't know that. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: I have the form. I 15 used my WordPerfect. 16 Strickland. 17 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: I recommend that 18 we find some little space in News & Events that 19 can be a reminder to the membership. 20 PRESIDENT SAUM: I believe it is there. 21 It used to be. If not, we will get it back. 22 Petersen. 23 DIRECTOR PETERSEN: Where does this go 24 in the Guidebook? 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: Under Awards. It looks 439 1 like it has to go on Page 37 someplace. 2 DIRECTOR PETERSEN: That is fine. 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: I would say the first 4 item would be a new A. It would be 4-A, and then 5 move everything else down, unless somebody else 6 has a different suggestion. She actually had two 7 proposals. 8 One was, "If approved by the Committee, 9 this documentation will be provided to each 10 Director, via postal mail, at least two weeks 11 prior to the opening date of the next Annual 12 Meeting." 13 Petersen. 14 DIRECTOR PETERSEN: I am sorry. This is 15 going back to the prior. I am not so sure it 16 should be (a) because that is kind of 17 distinguishing between two different types of 18 awards. This is a statement. Maybe it should be 19 put afterwards as a statement before (a). 20 PRESIDENT SAUM: I can live with that. 21 It will be after awards, semicolon, and a 22 description of what we just said? Okay. Thank 23 you, Laurie. 24 DIRECTOR LAWSON: You can put in the 25 word "note", and then what it would be. 440 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. We are back to 2 (b). Do you want to -- we need to consider that 3 because it is coming up for Board action. 4 Reyna. 5 DIRECTOR REYNA: I speak against it 6 because it says there would be absolutely no way 7 to present a surprise award. 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: Altheide. 9 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: Well, the concept of 10 it is good, but it really applies only to one 11 award. That is Director Emeriti, which is what 12 the Board votes on. All the other awards are done 13 by the Committee without a Board vote. 14 So, if a change could be made that said 15 "Awards for Director Emeriti, that have been 16 approved by the Committee, documentation for 17 Director Emeriti that is not approved by the 18 Committee will be provided", and then continue on. 19 It is just whatever the award would be 20 to identify that and limit it to the Director 21 Emeriti. That is the one we vote on. That is the 22 one the Board needs the information on. 23 PRESIDENT SAUM: Cassette. 24 DIRECTOR PHIL CASSETTE: I am not quite 25 sure that is what was intended here. The point is 441 1 the information needs to go to the Directors and 2 at time in past years the Board has not received 3 that information. 4 As far as the Director Emeriti award, I 5 am not sure that is what was intended. What I 6 would like to see is just stop at the end where it 7 says "provided each Director." I believe it also 8 is provided that information here at the Board 9 meeting is sufficient, that we have the 10 information, and I certainly wouldn't want to miss 11 an opportunity that we saw last year where Ms. 12 Nixon's response to the award she received was 13 priceless, and I think that two weeks in advance 14 in no way anything. 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: He is recommending 16 changes that would say, "If approved by the 17 Committee, this documentation will be provided to 18 each Director." That is the end of that. That is 19 an amended motion. Do we have a second to that? 20 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I second it. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: It has been seconded by 22 Campbell. We will strike the second sentence of 23 that basically. Any discussion on the amendment 24 to the motion? All in favor will say "aye"; any 25 opposed? There are no "nay" votes. Any 442 1 abstentions? There are no abstentions. That 2 passed. 3 We will go back to the original motion 4 which is basically what we voted on, as amended. 5 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I call for the 6 question. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Linda has called for 8 the question. It is the same thing. "If approved 9 by the Committee, this document will be provided 10 each Director." All in favor, please say "aye"; 11 any opposed? There are no "nay" votes. Any 12 abstentions? No abstentions. The motion passed. 13 Does anyone else have anything else for 14 Vivian? Okay. David Funk is in the room. We 15 will have him come up and do our Breed Standards 16 Committee report. 17 REPORT OF THE BREED STANDARDS COMMITTEE 18 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: You should have the 19 October 14th copy of the Breed Standards Committee 20 Report, which was passed out yesterday. The goals 21 for the year probably related to the directives 22 from the Board that were received last year 23 quarterly. 24 We continued to work with the INBA on 25 their revision of their standards. We were 443 1 instructed to clarify the meaning of the 2 measurements involved in the LaMancha standards 3 relative to acceptable length of elf ears and come 4 up with a definition. 5 We were instructed to work on bringing 6 about uniformity in registration standards on show 7 standards within all breeds, or evaluation of 8 feedback that has been offered. It was also to 9 consider proposals presented by the membership. 10 We also discussed within the Committee 11 issues of concern. We also discussed work done 12 this year and we worked with the Oberhasli Club on 13 their Proposed Revised Breed Standard. We 14 discussed and referred back a proposal from Dave 15 Daubert to allow registration of black bucks in 16 the Oberhasli breed. 17 There was further communication on the 18 revised two proposals of the Breed Standards. 19 There was communication with INBA in the fall. 20 You will remember under last year there was a 21 question of our needing a photograph of a dish- 22 faced Nubian before we proceeded. 23 Then late in the spring we received, or 24 I received what purported to be a photocopy of 25 this. But before we could proceed with it, the 444 1 INBA contacted us again and told us that further 2 study of the photo industry of the animal 3 indicated it was not what it was purported to be. 4 We voted on the proposed Breed 5 Standards. The result of the votes are there, but 6 before we could proceed, the Association withdrew 7 that proposal for further consideration. We 8 worked on it and passed a recommendation to the 9 Board relative to acceptable ear length in the 10 LaMancha breed. There is the action of the Board. 11 We prepared and voted on adding the 12 disqualifications to the Breed Standards in the 13 handbook, to make them consistent with the 14 evaluation of defects and requirements for the 15 registration. Also, a financial statement is 16 listed. 17 The problems encountered, and we are not 18 proud of them, but related to the Association, but 19 rather personal problems involved the chairman for 20 the most part. 21 So we come to the decisions requiring 22 Board action. The first one relates to the 23 LaMancha standards and on Page 111 of the 24 Guidebook, LaMancha, the gopher and elf ear are 25 described. 445 1 There is a significant problem here. A 2 disqualification cannot be based on an approximate 3 length. The Committee requested the Board remove 4 the word "approximate" in both No. 1, gopher ears, 5 and No. 2, elf ears. 6 When you have, for example, a 7 requirement that says the ear may not be longer 8 than two inches, approximately is considered two 9 and a quarter, two and a half, almost two. If we 10 are talking about the qualification, approximate 11 is not appropriate. 12 The Board asked us to deal with it 13 specifically last year, and the Committee by a 14 vote of -- this is on the first page, and I can't 15 seem to see it on here. I just remembered that. 16 I believe it is No. 7. It was yes votes, by a 17 vote of ten to one, with one abstention, voted to 18 ask the Board to take this action. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. 20 Rowe. 21 DIRECTOR ROWE: I would actually speak 22 against this proposal because while I appreciate 23 the difficulty of the word "approximately", one 24 difficulty in applying this measurement would be 25 that, really, in my mind what makes a true 446 1 LaMancha is the head or the size of the head, or 2 the length of the ear and the size of the head. 3 So it would seem to me some judgment is 4 necessary in younger animals and animals that have 5 registration. I would favor leaving the word 6 "approximately" in there. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Anyone else want to 8 speak to that before we vote? 9 Backus. 10 DIRECTOR BACKUS: I don't know how to 11 say this gracefully. This was a recommendation 12 which was discussed within the LaMancha Club to 13 remove the word "approximate". Just because the 14 logical sentence construction is so inappropriate, 15 and although I am going to object to some of the 16 other items that David has suggested here, I think 17 it is fully in order that we should accept this 18 suggestion. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rucker. 20 DIRECTOR RUCKER: Mr. Backus is the 21 LaMancha Club and was the Committee provider with 22 the results of the LaMancha Club on the change to 23 the Breed Standards. 24 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: I believe the 25 question was from him. 447 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: No, it is to you. He 2 was asking did you discuss with the LaMancha Club 3 requesting the change in the Breed Standards. 4 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: We didn't receive 5 anything initiated by the LaMancha Club asking us 6 to do this. This was a request from the Board 7 last year. In fact, it was a directive from the 8 Board last year. This was not initiated by the 9 LaMancha Club. I appreciate the Board's support 10 on this issue. 11 PRESIDENT SAUM: Berry. 12 DIRECTOR BERRY: I think Tom's question 13 was, was there a poll done that advised on the 14 Breed Standards? After receiving direction from 15 the Board, did you conduct a poll in asking of 16 this event? 17 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: No, we didn't conduct 18 a poll. We don't use polls. In fact, we only do 19 a poll if an outside group or a breed club 20 initiates the action. If the Board directs us to 21 do it, or the action originates within the 22 Committee, then it comes directly to the Board 23 from the Committee. 24 If an individual or breed club or other 25 group initiates the action and it comes to the 448 1 Committee, then the Committee conducts the poll. 2 DIRECTOR RUCKER: I guess my problem is 3 if we are going to be changing the Breed Standard, 4 we need to involve the members, not just because 5 we said we wanted a review. I don't like the word 6 "approximate". 7 I would prefer it not be there, but I 8 don't think we are going through the right process 9 to get it out. I think we need to involve the 10 membership. I would recommend voting against this 11 and sending it back and complete the process 12 outlined in the Guidebook. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: Two people have spoken 14 again. Does anybody want to speak in favor of it? 15 We are voting on E-1, removing the word 16 "approximate" on No. 1 and No. 2 in your 17 Guidebook, Page 111. All those in favor, please 18 signify by saying "aye"; those opposed "no". Any 19 abstentions? No abstentions. 20 Can we have the "yes" votes, please: 21 Burks, Pete Snyder, Helen Snyder, Patti Dean, 22 Bonnie Kempe, Hendrickson, Weaver, Backus, 23 Strickland, Gustafson, Proctor, Considine, 24 Cassette, Saum. I believe that is 14. There were 25 14 "yes" votes. So the motion will fail. There 449 1 were no abstentions. 2 If that one failed, do we still want to 3 consider No. 2? 4 DIRECTOR SENN: Yes. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bryan. 6 DIRECTOR BRYAN: I would just like to 7 have a count of the Directors, the number of 8 Directors that are seated so we know what the 9 winning and failing counts are. 10 PRESIDENT SAUM: 29. No, there were 31. 11 We didn't see District V. That is 30, and take 12 one aye off that is 29. Do you want to count off? 13 (Whereupon, the Directors counted off at 14 this time.) 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: There were 29. Thank 16 you. It still failed. 17 The second one is, do you want to speak 18 to that? 19 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: Yes. On Page 111, 20 again, "The ear is to be measured with a rigid 21 measure placed firmly against the head at the base 22 of the ear, with the ear fully extended, but 23 neither pulled nor stretched. Natural folds and 24 creases at the base of the ear are to be unaltered 25 during measurement." 450 1 I would add that some members of the 2 Committee had tip noted, that they would want it 3 to be made very clear that the measurement was 4 against the head and was not in the neck. The 5 question of top to bottom, this says at the 6 bottom, thinking that if you looked at this as a 7 LaMancha head, many animals' ears are placed very 8 high and measuring at the top would not 9 necessarily give you a firm flat place measure, 10 where below the ear you have a flat structure of 11 the skull before the groove, where a ruler could 12 be placed, and you measure just simply to the part 13 of the ear that is farthest away from the head. 14 You don't pull the tip up, you don't 15 pull the tip down. You measure there. We were 16 instructed to give a quantitative place that could 17 be consistent for all measurements. We did 18 receive communication from the LaMancha Club 19 expressing their membership's concern that this 20 should be quantitative and not qualitative, and 21 their basic opposition to the concept of 22 physically measuring the ears. 23 But our direction given to us, referred 24 to us by the Board last October, was that we were 25 to come in with a suggestion for a way for the 451 1 ears to be uniformly measured, and that is what 2 this represents. 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: Petersen. 4 DIRECTOR PETERSEN: I just want to kind 5 of make sure what the fully extended part means. 6 Does it mean the actual touching? 7 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: The outer ear is not 8 to be pulled or stretched. The ear is not 9 supposed to be touched at all. You are not going 10 to pull it. That is why it says natural folds and 11 creases. 12 I am sure the Committee would not mind 13 if you struck at the base of the ear. If you just 14 said natural folds and full creases are to be 15 unaltered during measurement. 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: Campbell. 17 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I guess fully 18 extended, I am thinking somebody has to do that. 19 So, I mean, are you telling them to go toward the 20 ear? It is implied that somebody is doing that. 21 Am I the only one that sees it that way? 22 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: This relates to it 23 not being touched during the measurement. If you 24 want to change that wording, you can. 25 DIRECTOR NIXON: I have a ruler. Will 452 1 you show us how we are to measure? 2 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: Yes. Just like that. 3 It is just like that (indicating). 4 DIRECTOR NIXON: You should not have it 5 on the ear? 6 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: I am using myself. 7 Any time that is not going to happen. I am just 8 qualified as a goat. This way and like that 9 (indicating). Up here, LaMancha, the head of the 10 animal does go upward to the point, and I tried, 11 and I went out with a ruler and tried out a number 12 of LaMancha animals in my daughter's herd. 13 There is not a consistency where the 14 skull will begin to curve in above the ear. There 15 are many animals that can do it like this, and 16 fine, and other animals prefer to do it like this, 17 at the top of the head. 18 It doesn't protrude high enough to give 19 an accurate measurement. But as long as you stay 20 out of the neck crease and below the ear, you can 21 put this against the side of the head and you have 22 a consistent flat surface like this. That is it. 23 PRESIDENT SAUM: Campbell. 24 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I am remembering 25 back to a number of years ago when I chaired the 453 1 Registration Committee. I got calls about the 2 left ear and the right ear. We came up with a 3 sketch that showed the left ear and the right ear 4 that we used. 5 Should the Board choose to accept this, 6 I think that might be an area where a sketch of 7 showing it would be very helpful to the member. 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: Hendrickson. 9 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: My only problem 10 is continually this discussion about measurements 11 is that if we have an approximately two-inch 12 length for qualification, approximate anything 13 can't be measured. 14 I mean, you cannot measure an 15 approximate two-inch length and determine that it 16 meets this qualification and what they were tasked 17 to make the show rule and Breed Standards match. 18 If you qualify the LaMancha breed as over two 19 inches, you can't have an approximate two-inch 20 length. I mean, it just doesn't make sense if you 21 are measuring approximate length. 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: Backus. 23 DIRECTOR BACKUS: Okay. At the risk of 24 really wearing out my welcome as a newcomer, this 25 is probably the most important issue to me and the 454 1 people that I deal with. I think part of the 2 problem here is our emphasis is quite incorrect 3 here, where we are emphasizing the length to the 4 extent it can be measured, and we are ignoring the 5 question of the cartilage, which is to my way of 6 thinking the key issue. 7 Now, if anybody has a question about 8 that cartilage, touch your own ear. Don't use a 9 ruler. Feel the lobe. The lobe has no cartilage 10 in it. Feel the upper part of it and there is 11 stiffness. That stiffness is due to cartilage. 12 I submit that that is the key to this 13 distinction between elf and gopher ears. That is 14 not a difference of length. So, if a gopher ear 15 or a buck with a gopher ear, that had an ear that 16 measures longer than one inch, that doesn't make 17 it an elf ear, because it has nothing to do with 18 the presence or absence of cartilage. 19 Now, having said that, I would like to 20 go back to the tabulation of the vote here. I am 21 sure David correctly recorded that ten people 22 voted yes, one no, and one abstained, and five not 23 voting. 24 Now, among those people, the one 25 representative of the LaMancha Club, the person 455 1 that voted "no" and the only other person that I 2 identified as a LaMancha breeder of any note is 3 Anita Johnson, whose son had that terribly 4 unfortunate head trauma accident this year, and I 5 am sure that her herd did not participate in 6 things she would have liked to have done. 7 I submit that probably nine people that 8 I would consider to be LaMancha breeders of note, 9 perhaps a good deal that I am not aware of here on 10 the Board, and I think that we among ourselves 11 here are significantly more qualified to make a 12 judgment on this matter than the membership of 13 that Committee. 14 I would like to make a further question 15 to David about measurements. I would like to ask 16 how many animals you measured and what the data 17 looked like? I suppose he is a much better man 18 than I am, because I went out a week and a half 19 ago, which was just shortly after I received the 20 Breed Standards Report. 21 I attempted to measure the length of 22 some of my LaMancha bucks. I risked my life and 23 limb to do so, and at this time of the year they 24 are not particularly cooperative to have their 25 ears measured. 456 1 One further item here, I can understand 2 your measurement, but I think it is one which is 3 quite proper difficult and amenable to a lot of 4 measurement error. You quite correctly noted that 5 the LaMancha ear is not placed in a planar 6 surface. 7 Most people have a fairly flat side to 8 their head, and that makes it fairly easy, and you 9 can go ahead and take an accurate measurement, a 10 relatively accurate measurement of the ear 11 extending it from the skull. But with LaManchas 12 and perhaps other breeds, it is not that easy. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. What I have 14 before you is No. 2, asking for Board action. 15 "The ear is to be measured with a rigid measure 16 placed firmly against the head at the base of the 17 ear with the ear fully extended, but neither 18 pulled nor stretched. Natural folds and creases 19 at the base of the ear are to be unaltered during 20 measurement." 21 Senn. 22 DIRECTOR SENN: Just a suggestion, that 23 we take the words out "fully extended" because 24 that indicates that would be coming out. 25 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: I will accept that. 457 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: At the base of the 2 herd, we are going to strike "with the ear fully 3 extended." 4 Is the chairman acceptable to that? 5 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: Yes. 6 PRESIDENT SAUM: Gustafson. 7 DIRECTOR GUSTAFSON: Along the same 8 line, to protect anybody from pulling the tip of 9 the ear out at the base, that it will neither be 10 pulled nor stretched and natural folds and creases 11 of the ear. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Where are you, Marsha? 13 DIRECTOR GUSTAFSON: On the second 14 sentence. "Natural folds and creases at the base 15 of the ear are to be unaltered during 16 measurement." Remove "at the base." 17 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: Actually, as we talk 18 about it, I think if we remove the other section, 19 that would be appropriate to do what she is 20 saying. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: So you are accepting 22 that? 23 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: One prior authority 24 to the other. 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: All right. Let me read 458 1 it again. "The ear is to be measured with a rigid 2 measure placed firmly against the head at the base 3 of the ear that is neither pulled nor stretched. 4 Natural folds and creases of the ear are to be 5 unaltered during measurement." 6 Okay. Morris. 7 DIRECTOR MORRIS: Just for 8 clarification, what page will that be on? 9 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: I believe our intent 10 was that this was at any given age, just a 11 Nigerian it may be okay and a buck for two years 12 and three years, and essentially they may reach 13 the point where they are no longer okay. 14 That is just like animals from a power 15 base have a spot small enough in a two-year old 16 that maybe through the growth is too large as a 17 four-year old. Age is not at this point something 18 that we deal with. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: All right. The 20 question has been called. All those in favor will 21 please signify by saying "aye"; any "no" votes? I 22 have a "no" vote by Hendrickson, Backus and 23 Campbell. Any abstentions? I have Korhonen. The 24 motion passed. 25 We will go to the next page, No. 3 on 459 1 the next page. 2 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: We were instructed to 3 find a way to include within the Guidebook, in the 4 section on Breed Standards, the item that would 5 make an animal ineligible for registration. If 6 you remember in 2003, the Board voted that the 7 Breed Standards evaluation defects and the 8 requirements for registration were to completely 9 reform. 10 Last year, when Lelia brought her 11 Registration Committee report in, she requested 12 the Board to assign us to write and make this 13 information, which would be an appendum. It would 14 not amend or change the Breed Standards, but 15 rather would be included within the Breed 16 Standards section for each breed. 17 And as we go down through here, I think 18 that at this point I would say what we need to do 19 is to read all of these, and the Board then needs 20 to vote on whether they want to continue with this 21 concept, and then vote on each one as written 22 individually. 23 I don't think we want to vote on one and 24 then vote on the next and vote on the next without 25 first determining whether we want to proceed at 460 1 all with this handle. 2 Can I ask Lelia to speak to this? 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: Berry. 4 DIRECTOR BERRY: Yes. Thank you, David. 5 I just want to identify what the problem was, and 6 he is correct in what he said, that when we 7 changed the requirement that animals that had a 8 disqualification should not be registered in the 9 herd or the American Herd Book or reported grades, 10 and we wanted it changed to be consistent 11 throughout the Guidebook. This was one. 12 Areas which we felt needed to be there, 13 because what happens is when people only look at 14 one place in the Guidebook and don't see it 15 somewhere else, they apply the registration into 16 an incorrect herd book. So, we are just trying to 17 be consistent in giving people the right 18 information. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 20 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: In the 21 qualification of the herds, on those items on 22 qualifications, you said the Nigerian height 23 minimum or maximum is not included in that 24 statement. 25 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: That is why I say we 461 1 may want to deal with the concept first and then 2 go down a breed at a time in terms of what the 3 actual concept of the breed is. 4 Can I further respond to her? These all 5 also relate to the qualification at the time of 6 registration. In a Nigerian kid, it is never 7 going to be too tall at birth when you go to 8 register him. 9 If you then come down to -- I have got 10 to find the right number. Well, anyway, the point 11 is that at this point in terms of when you 12 register the animal, what this really does, is 13 that qualification. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: Berry. 15 DIRECTOR BERRY: Just 10, 11, a 16 different one. 17 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: Down through 10, this 18 relates to disqualifications at the time of 19 initial registration. Then further down in our 20 proposal are things that deal with when an animal 21 becomes ineligible after all this, which we were 22 also told to do. 23 I think that Sheila had her hand up 24 first. Actually, I was answering you. 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: I think a lot of people 462 1 want to speak, and I am aware of Robert's Rules of 2 Order about things, that people get to speak 3 twice. So, let's start with that. 4 I see Karen Senn's hand. 5 DIRECTOR SENN: In looking at these 6 rules, I understand the concept of what we were 7 trying to do and it is mentioned in the Judge's 8 Training Conference, discussion of bringing those 9 into alignment. 10 I think that one of the things we might 11 want to do is not put it in the Breed Standards 12 section, where you state a description of the 13 animal. My intent, the intent was under the rules 14 or regulations on Page 30 under the individual 15 thing, and also we wanted to say where the items 16 very specifically as opposed to stating in a line 17 and add a line and a lot of words, and they are 18 not complete, and also anything other than a rep, 19 something like that. 20 For example, on the Nubian, in the 21 evaluation on the qualification, so that we are 22 showing that it is simplified in two sections and 23 more clear. 24 PRESIDENT SAUM: Nixon. 25 DIRECTOR NIXON: I understand what you 463 1 are trying to do here, but I still think you have 2 missed the concept in that without only addressing 3 pendulous ears, you have a very clear statement 4 under the LaMancha saying ears other than elf or 5 gopher, or true LaMancha ears are unacceptable. 6 If you made that statement under your 7 Swiss breed and your Nubians, that ears other than 8 upright ears would be qualifiable. It would be 9 much clearer and much more concise. We have only 10 addressed pendulous ears under Alpines. You need 11 to address pendulous ears and LaMancha ears. 12 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: Can I respond right 13 there? I am aware of that. If you look under 14 action for next year, the LaMancha ear was brought 15 to our attention too late for me to take it to the 16 Committee. 17 Mr. Snyder, in fact, contacted me, and 18 one reason it says revised October 14th is because 19 of the fact that other ears, other than pendulous, 20 are a problem. In fact, they are mentioned 21 nowhere in the whole Guidebook that came to my 22 attention, and that is a hazard to be dealt with. 23 I had no opportunity to bring it to my Committee. 24 DIRECTOR NIXON: Can I do a follow-up 25 there? 464 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: Yes. 2 DIRECTOR NIXON: I suggest this be 3 referred back to the Committee so that when it 4 comes in and it is put in the Guidebook, it is put 5 in a complete accurate form. 6 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. The chairman 7 tells me he wants you to approve this in concept, 8 and then refer it back to Committee so the 9 Committee could continue working on it. Will 10 somebody make the motion to refer, or was that a 11 motion, Sheila? 12 DIRECTOR NIXON: I can't make a motion. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rowe. 14 DIRECTOR ROWE: I was just pointing out 15 to my colleagues we might discuss the concept 16 before they make a motion to refer. I would be 17 against the concept of having these certified 18 standards in our Standards, because I believe our 19 description of the Breed Standard should be a 20 description of what the breed and they are our 21 rules and regulations and our evaluation of effect 22 are more clearly defined which animal is excluded. 23 PRESIDENT SAUM: Just for clarification, 24 you are saying this should go to Registration? 25 DIRECTOR ROWE: Well, I believe that it 465 1 could be addressed in any one of those Committees. 2 I think that Breed Standards has been working on 3 it, so it would be appropriate for Breed Standards 4 to simply come back with more clarifying language 5 and correct our evaluation, and to update our 6 rules of registration, and then pass it on to the 7 other Committee for their review. 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: It would be under the 9 Guidebook, not Breed Standards? 10 DIRECTOR ROWE: Yes. My understanding 11 is it would be in the Guidebook under Evaluation 12 of Defects and Rulings of Registration. Breed 13 Standards could define the terminology and then 14 send to registration and for changing to 15 appropriate acceptance. 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. 17 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: I think we will be 18 very happy to do that. Last year we were 19 specifically told to put it here. In fact, we 20 were told all three had to conform and contain, 21 and there was going to be the whole section, the 22 three sections of the Guidebook were to be 23 consolidated so they were all basically in one 24 place. 25 We were working now on just getting the 466 1 Breed Standards to contain the information without 2 changing the wording that had been accepted, but 3 to add what was not acceptable to the list of what 4 was accepted. 5 I think the Committee would be very 6 happy to take it back and work on it some more. 7 If the Board then votes that we are not going to 8 put it in the section in Breed Standards, that is 9 something that is a change of concept from what 10 was passed last year when Lelia came in and said 11 please turn it over to the Breed Standards 12 Committee, because that is where it is appropriate 13 to put it. 14 DIRECTOR BERRY: Yes. Joanie, I 15 understand what you are saying, and I think you 16 are correct. My concern was, and Charlie knows 17 that when people are only reading one section, we 18 try to determine where an animal goes, sometimes 19 they don't look at all the relevant sections. 20 So, certainly under the Breed Standards 21 we can say refer to Breed Defects, we can refer to 22 that section rather than have it there. I am just 23 concerned when people only read part of the 24 Guidebook, they may miss this. I think we could 25 both work on that. 467 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: Altheide. 2 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: I understand what 3 has been said, but the Breed Standards should 4 represent the ideal as opposed to a negative in 5 there. If Joanie would be willing to make her 6 comment as a motion, I would serve as a seconder. 7 Registration and Evaluation is where it belongs, 8 not the Breed Standards. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bitter. 10 DIRECTOR BITTER: I move we refer Nos. 3 11 through 10 back to the Breed Standards Committee 12 with the advisement of Dr. Rowe included in their 13 instructions. 14 DIRECTOR SENN: I second it. 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: It has been seconded by 16 Senn. Any more discussion on the motion to refer? 17 All in favor, please say "aye"; all opposed "no". 18 There are no "no" votes. Any abstentions? No 19 abstentions. 20 We will refer this back to the Breed 21 Standards Committee with a recommendation from 22 Joanie, which was the issue also of being in the 23 Evaluation of Defects and to work with 24 Registration on that. 25 Okay. That takes us up to No. 11 in 468 1 David's report. 2 Strickland. 3 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: I would still 4 maintain that the ideal maximum height needs to be 5 in there. We know that not every animal is 6 registered as a kid. 7 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: I would say with us 8 moving this information to Evaluation of Defects 9 and Registration, it becomes appropriate to do 10 that, because at this point we are going to be 11 talking about animals of all ages, the Evaluation 12 of Defects, and this information of Evaluation of 13 Defects, it changes what we are talking about. 14 If we look at No. 11, my suggestion to 15 you, first of all, it starts off in the Breed 16 Standards section, and this would no longer be the 17 appropriate place for this to be. But I want to 18 go through the concept here with you, because the 19 text says with LaMancha increasing ear length with 20 maturity may require "repapering" as 21 experimentals, while with color breeds if spots 22 widen with age they, too, may need to be shifted 23 to the Experimental Registry. The ADGA office can 24 help you do this. 25 The other part, that is just my 469 1 clarification, that this can be done. This was 2 again something that Lelia brought up at last 3 year's meeting and requested that we include here 4 the fact that if we are going to deal with the 5 membership, most of the membership really doesn't 6 understand the fact that the kid that was alleged 7 crimson found at birth may turn into a dark cream 8 or a brown as it develops, and she belongs in the 9 Experimental Registry. 10 DIRECTOR BERRY: Or disabled. 11 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: Or becomes lighter, 12 and the black spots come back that big around 13 (indicating), instead of that big around, or the 14 LaMancha whose ears were both. I look at all 15 breeds and show them all, and I know a lot of 16 problems can develop and occur in LaManchas. 17 Anyway, the point is that this no longer 18 belongs in the Breed Standards section. You want 19 me to continue and as a Committee to continue 20 working with this in terms of placement in 21 Registration or in the Evaluation of Defects? 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: So I am hearing from 23 you that you are withdrawing No. 11 and No. 12? 24 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: What is the motion? 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: That required Board 470 1 action. 2 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: I wanted guidance. 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: Let me finish my 4 sentence. You are asking these two not be 5 considered by the Board and direction from the 6 Board on what to do with them? 7 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: Yes. 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. 9 Nixon. 10 DIRECTOR NIXON: I would like a 11 clarification from Lisa Shepard on something. Am 12 I correct in that when we re-register an animal 13 and it goes to an Experimental herd book, we lose 14 all the performance records on that animal? 15 MS. SHEPARD: That would not be correct 16 at all. We can reference that you did that. For 17 example, when we change the animals to the 18 disabled herd book, all that information went with 19 it. 20 DIRECTOR NIXON: So, I am incorrect. I 21 don't want to take the time to look for it, but I 22 think there is a rule that when an animal becomes 23 a gray, that is sold and it becomes a gray, none 24 of the information that that animal has earned in 25 the past can be carried with that animal. Now, if 471 1 there has been a change in that, I am unaware of 2 that. 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: There has been a change 4 to that. 5 DIRECTOR NIXON: So it does not go with 6 it? 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Well, in our Guidebook 8 it refers to an animal that is sold without 9 papers. If an animal is sold without papers, 10 because the owner chooses they don't want to sell 11 it as a registered animal and they want to re- 12 register it, they need a new identification and 13 those records do not follow them. 14 If you are of a disabled and you are 15 going to register it as disabled, your records 16 would follow you. 17 DIRECTOR NIXON: I think it is really 18 important that that be made very clear in any 19 proposal that comes through with this information. 20 PRESIDENT SAUM: We are going to refer 21 this to the Committee. Did you want this referred 22 to the Committee for more consideration? 23 DIRECTOR PETERSEN: Before you do 24 anything, refer anything, they need to look at 25 that if you are going to carry on records. 472 1 Anyway, Nigerians are not in this little thinking, 2 and they should be with the LaMancha and the spot? 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: Correct. I think 4 records from a deceased animal. 5 DIRECTOR SENN: What I am saying, if you 6 are going to code them as a deceased and issue new 7 papers, how does that deceased animal's records go 8 to a new animal? 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: I think there is a 10 computer programming thing is what this is saying. 11 That is just a suggestion how that would happen. 12 That is not what Bryan is doing in the system. He 13 is not going to wipe out an animal. That was 14 suggested. 15 Rowe. 16 DIRECTOR ROWE: I believe I can answer 17 the question. Here we are talking about 18 determination of an animal's identity. Lisa 19 suggested in these cases the appropriate 20 recommendation then would be that that number is 21 cross-referenced with the future number. So it is 22 just a matter of organization and truncating 23 certain records. 24 PRESIDENT SAUM: Lawson. 25 DIRECTOR LAWSON: I just want to speak 473 1 to the Nigerian issue. I know it is going back to 2 the Committee, but I would like to strongly 3 suggest that you get the opinion of other Nigerian 4 breeders before you do anything about this. 5 The people I have talked to and have 6 even sent me letters from my District do not want 7 an experimental book for Nigerians that are over 8 white. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: Morris. 10 DIRECTOR MORRIS: My question is if you 11 were to do it, where you would re-register the 12 animal to the Experimental, the person would have 13 a duplicate registration. When it came time to 14 show the animal, if they have an original 15 registration of Toggenburg and a separate 16 registration of Toggenburg, would you not be 17 showing one in the purebred herd, one in the 18 regular Toggenburg class, and would not that 19 create a problem with judges not knowing if the 20 same animal was shown two different times? 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: That is a valid 22 question, Greg. This is the registration paper 23 and not policy, that if you are registering an 24 animal you have to surrender the paper. The issue 25 did come up with the disabled this year because 474 1 they would be distracted. 2 I was contacted by some disabled people 3 that say the show didn't do disabled and I want to 4 show them, and that is fine, you can show the 5 recorded gray, and if it wins and you enter it in 6 the database, you are not only reported gray, but 7 you are disabled. 8 The computer knows the last paper that 9 was issued for you. Even if you were in the 10 Registration paper, if you lost yours and found a 11 duplicate, the bar code on that will tell you that 12 is not the paper. 13 If they are out there showing, we are 14 hoping they will surrender that original paper, 15 and that is what should happen. If they get 16 through and get to the report of the Awards, it 17 will be caught. 18 Strickland. 19 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: Will we be 20 recording bar code numbers then on the show 21 reports? 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: No, it comes under the 23 system. When she enters the animal, the animal 24 goes in, it would not show up in the herd book if 25 the animal changed herd books. It would not show 475 1 up. 2 Gustafson. 3 DIRECTOR GUSTAFSON: I am playing the 4 devil's advocate here. You have an animal and she 5 produces kids one year of age, no years of age. 6 These kids are registered as fawns. At four years 7 of age, this fawn has gotten too big and she is 8 transferred into the Experimental Herd Book. 9 What happens to kid litter one, two and 10 three? Do they stay a fawn, or because she became 11 an experimental, does that trickle all the way 12 down and change all of them? 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: Berry. 14 DIRECTOR BERRY: We discussed this 15 several years ago, and the Registration Committee 16 brought forth a series of proposals, which nobody 17 quite understood what we were doing. We had to 18 try to follow through on a lot of this two years 19 ago. But we didn't change anything. 20 So, under the current system, the 21 animals that are already registered in whatever 22 herd book the doe was in when born remains in 23 there. The subsequent animals go into the herd 24 book she is now in. We didn't change that when we 25 talked about this two years ago. 476 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: Campbell. 2 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I would just ask 3 that maybe you reconsider when you are working on 4 this the language "repapering". Perhaps a better 5 word might be re-registering or something like 6 that. I understand the implication saying re- 7 registering when you are writing the report. 8 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: Do we want to say 9 registering or recording? 10 DIRECTOR BERRY: Well, when I instructed 11 the judges and appraisers as to what to tell 12 people, that is to tell the people to return the 13 papers to the ADGA office to be moved into the 14 correct herd book. 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bryan. 16 DIRECTOR BRYAN: I guess I have two 17 issues with this. We have never policed these 18 things. We have no judges that do that. Are we 19 leading up to starting to do that? 20 PRESIDENT SAUM: I can't answer that 21 question for you. I have no knowledge of that. 22 Berry. 23 DIRECTOR BERRY: Since I am on all of 24 the involved Committees, that is not the intent of 25 the Committee. We have been really clear focusing 477 1 on registration, linear and judges. We didn't 2 want anyone put into the position of having to 3 confiscate and/or act as the police. No one is 4 intending that that will ever happen. 5 By the way, in regard to the animal 6 being moved and the offspring in a different herd 7 book, that already exists. If you have an Alpine, 8 or a Toggenburg, and she has one kid that is 9 experimental and one kid that is a purebred in the 10 same litter, those offsprings are going in two 11 different directions anyway. So that already 12 exists. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: We are going to send 14 this back to Committee. Is there anything else 15 that we want to address now? 16 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: I want to look at 12 17 for just a moment. I want to say this comes as a 18 result of communications with the Committee from 19 Nigeria, from the Nigerian breeder. 20 DIRECTOR LAWSON: One? 21 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: Two. But the key 22 issue here, and this is just asking the Board for 23 guidance. First of all, there are two things. I 24 never vote on my Committee. All I do is 25 administer the thing and try to keep the thing on 478 1 track so we are talking about the issue involved. 2 But as far as this here is concerned, 3 the question that was raised was we will relay 4 this to the fact that all the other breeds, if 5 they have a place to move the animal that is 6 developed in this qualification. 7 The question that was raised was what do 8 you do ethically besides keep a Nigerian that is 9 too big? I know I expected that. 10 PRESIDENT SAUM: I think something clear 11 is stated in the proposal. 12 Rucker is going to speak to that. 13 DIRECTOR RUCKER: There was a great, 14 great, great deal of thought before we submitted 15 our proposal. The concept of the full book status 16 was discussed. It was specifically and clearly 17 decided not to proceed with that. 18 We have breed recharacteristics that 19 identifies our breed and all others, and that is 20 its size. If it loses its size, it loses its 21 identity. I know of no motive for the Breed Club 22 and a couple of breeders that advocate this. 23 Quite honestly, as a Nigerian breeder, I 24 am rather offended that this is two years in a row 25 that the Breed Standards Committee has come and 479 1 tried to tell us something to do with oversized 2 animals. 3 Last year, we wanted to change how we 4 measured them, and this year we are promoting 5 another way, and I think that is totally 6 inappropriate, and in addition that is not a Breed 7 Standards issue, that is a Registration Committee 8 issue. 9 If it is to be addressed, it should be 10 addressed in the Registration Committee, not in 11 Breed Standards. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: You are saying that 13 this shouldn't be referred to Committee and should 14 not be considered? 15 Altheide. 16 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: I want to say when 17 the Nigerian proposal was made, it was very clear 18 that they wanted a purebred only herd book. They 19 didn't want an American herd book. Animals that 20 move through the Experimental Registry can come 21 from -- when they come out, they come out to the 22 American status which indicates either there was a 23 break in ancestry or a break in conformation. 24 So for this proposal to work, we would 25 have to create an American herd book. Otherwise, 480 1 you would have animals that had a grade 2 confirmation to the Breed Standards coming back 3 out in the purebred only herd book, and transmit 4 these genetics back in, which I don't believe is 5 what the Nigerian people wanted when they made 6 their proposal. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: I think we are clear on 8 this. We don't have a motion on the floor. I 9 think we have got a lot of the discussion. You 10 have withdrawn the motion and said -- 11 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: No. 12 is not a 12 motion. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: I think we need to 14 limit this discussion, because it is going on and 15 on. I want to give everybody a chance to talk, 16 but I don't hear anything different being said at 17 this point. 18 At this point, we are saying what you 19 have already said, you are going to withdraw 11 20 and 12, and that does not require Board action. 21 We have discussed it pretty lengthy, and I think 22 the Board is not asking this Committee to do that 23 any longer. 24 Anything else from Breed Standards? 25 CHAIRPERSON FUNK: Just that on the last 481 1 page, those are things that we were planning to be 2 working on and recommendations for the future. 3 Thank you very much. 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: Thank you, David. I 5 know the Committee has done a lot of work this 6 year. I guess through e-mails. They have gone 7 back and forth on this. I asked him if he was 8 willing to give the Constitution and Bylaws 9 report. He is on the Committee. He is here and 10 the Committee Chair is not here. She didn't ask 11 anybody to give that report. 12 COMMITTEE MEMBER FUNK: She just asked 13 me up here. If someone else is prepared to do it, 14 that is fine. 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: Allen, are you prepared 16 to do it? 17 DIRECTOR BITTER: No, let him do it. 18 REPORT OF THE CONSTITUTION AND BYLAWS COMMITTEE 19 COMMITTEE MEMBER FUNK: Well, maybe we 20 can talk about Breed Standards a little longer. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: She has no decisions 22 requiring Board action. 23 COMMITTEE MEMBER FUNK: I will be real 24 brief. If you look down through here, this is a 25 reference report. There are at this point no 482 1 decisions requiring Board action. I guess the 2 last paragraph, the part I would point out, "The 3 Chair, as well as the majority of this Committee, 4 continues to think our Association is not in 5 compliance with our Constitution." 6 However, I would say that let's make it 7 clear. The majority is not a unanimous majority. 8 "We reiterate our request that was made last year, 9 that the Board of Directors take action to bring 10 our Association into compliance." 11 It has been respectfully submitted by 12 Elizabeth Henning, Chair. There are no actions 13 requiring the Board to proceed. Are there any 14 questions for us relative to this Committee's 15 report? 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: Seeing none, thank you, 17 David, for accepting that assignment on such short 18 notice. 19 The next thing on our list is Finance. 20 We have done the Finance Preliminary report. 21 Linda, are you ready to do the 22 Government and International Liaison report? 23 REPORT OF GOVERNMENT 24 AND INTERNATIONAL LIAISON COMMITTEE 25 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: You will note in my 483 1 report there is no decision requiring Board 2 action. We passed out the informational 3 materials. These are just here for your 4 information. 5 I indicated to the Board that I believed 6 in an e-mail a short while ago there was a 7 stakeholder's meeting in Kansas City earlier. It 8 was on the 11th and 12th, and we discussed an 9 opportunity for representatives from throughout 10 the livestock industry to express their opinion on 11 a decision that was announced by the Secretary of 12 Agriculture to change the National Animal I.D. 13 Program from a government USDA database system to 14 a private database. 15 You have the one letter that is address 16 on the USDA letterhead, that is addressed to me. 17 That is the explanation of that stakeholder's 18 meeting. I can tell you the responses from the 19 stakeholders, and these are people representing a 20 wide variety of livestock people, marketing 21 groups, processors, the opinions expressed there 22 by the attendees was very clear indicating they 23 would prefer the return to the USDA database idea 24 as comparable to the private database idea. 25 This again was the secretary's decision 484 1 announced in August. Until something changes, 2 that is what people will be operating under. This 3 database, where it says going to an entire private 4 database, means there will be a legal entity 5 formed that will be comprised of representatives 6 from the various PCs. 7 I can't say all, because I am not sure 8 how completely representative it will be. The 9 intent is for the industry, the livestock 10 industry, to get together, create a legal entity, 11 and then somehow fund the development of a 12 database and the maintenance of a database. 13 So, it is a little nebulous. How that 14 can actually happen, I am not real clear how this 15 could actually proceed in a logical format. 16 Getting everybody together is in itself a major 17 challenge. 18 So, my personal opinion is to the 19 response that is being received by the Department 20 of Agriculture from the decision, there may have 21 to be a change back to the original plan. So, I 22 am trying to keep you updated on what the current 23 status is. 24 The working group will continue with 25 each working group and will continue work forward, 485 1 coming up with recommendations and discussion as 2 to what the various protocols will be for the 3 specification of each of the species. 4 The second piece of information, there 5 was a letter addressed to Dr. Anthony Frazier. 6 You should strike that information. If you 7 release anything to members, I would ask 8 permission to include this letter as 9 informational, but I prefer not to have 10 identities. 11 This was a sample letter that went to 12 the various state veterinarians in term of the 13 scrapie program. I will be glad to turn the mike 14 over to Joanie, who can discuss further for those 15 of you who may have questions about this scrapie 16 program. This is just an FYI. 17 The second is an SAQ that was 18 distributed to the state veterinarians. What you 19 see represented there is information going to 20 state veterinarians. I thought it might be of 21 interest to you to see the responses or the 22 recommended responses, if you will, for producers 23 who may have questions about that national animal 24 I.D. program in connection with the scrapie 25 program. 486 1 DIRECTOR ROWE: Mine will be a little 2 different. The information that Linda has 3 provided refers to the National Animal 4 Identification System, the first information going 5 out to the states relative to integrating the 6 current scrapie program with identification. 7 I will just add a further comment about 8 the scrapie program, which I serve on, which 9 provides the stakeholder input relative to the 10 scrapie certification program. That would be that 11 I do participate in usually a conference call a 12 year, and sometimes additional correspondence. 13 I received the proposed update of the 14 uniform methods and rules for the scrapie block 15 certification program. I have it available for 16 members and Directors if you would like to see it. 17 That will be actually approved probably at the 18 U.S. health meeting. 19 Also for your information, the latest 20 uniform method and rules for the safety program, 21 which is the mandatory program of what you will 22 have, the rules using to identify your animals for 23 the shows and so on. 24 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: Is there an overview 25 or highlighting potential changes that you would 487 1 like to mention? 2 DIRECTOR ROWE: There are none major 3 that I am aware of. I just received this myself, 4 and I am not aware of any. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: Any questions? 6 Bitter. 7 DIRECTOR BITTER: Linda, back to the 8 National Animal Identification System, which I 9 understand that we are still working on and they 10 have extended that period. Are we still looking 11 at using our tattoo, or are they considering ear 12 tags? What is going on? Where are we going? 13 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I will be glad to 14 try to answer that. Let me look at it from the 15 perspective that each of the species groups, and 16 what it is we are doing and how this information 17 will be utilized. 18 The species groups are trying to come 19 together to prepare recommendations. Those 20 recommendations will then go upstream. The final 21 decisions will be at the secretary's level. So 22 each species group has presented draft 23 information. 24 At this point, the only one that has 25 moved forward from draft to acceptance is the 488 1 cattle recommendation. That is on the floor. The 2 cattle is radio frequency I.D.s. They prefer that 3 identification. 4 On the goat side, we are asking that 5 there be a transition period, that we use the 6 existing I.D. that we are currently using, and 7 that includes tattoos, microchipping, ear tags. 8 So we are asking that we continue to be able to 9 use these. 10 These identifications, that is the 11 individual component, the goal is to link these 12 pieces of information in the database so if you 13 have a tattoo on an animal and electronic I.D., 14 that both pieces of those information will be 15 reported on that animal I.D. 16 The goal is to have a visual I.D., that 17 the overall goal of the animal is to have a visual 18 component and electronic component. We are not at 19 that point to recommend that that be the way we 20 need to proceed at this time. 21 We are asking can we use either of 22 them -- not either of those -- can we use any of 23 these to continue to identify our animals? We are 24 expecting fully that in the future we will be 25 required to have a visual and an electronic 489 1 component. 2 We are not there, but that is from 3 listening to the discussions from the other 4 species groups, that is the direction that each 5 species expects to be doing and have this in the 6 future. 7 The future could be 2010, it would be 8 2012. So, we need to be continuing to think about 9 making sure we have fields in our registration 10 ability to be able to include the components as 11 individual identifications. 12 Does that answer your question? 13 DIRECTOR BITTER: That is part of it. 14 The sheep people have been using ear tags for 15 years, and they just don't last. That is a real 16 problem. They are most happy to use ear tags. 17 There is an organization that they are not happy 18 to use ear tags, and yet you are kind of telling 19 us ear tags are coming. You call it visual I.D., 20 but I can't imagine what else. 21 It has to be around the head, right? 22 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: A tattoo is a visual 23 I.D.; a tattoo is accepted as a visual 24 identification. 25 DIRECTOR ROWE: I think the guiding 490 1 principle that a tattoo is visual and the animal 2 would have a readable identification if you had no 3 access to electronic I.D. 4 You might make one more comment about 5 what we might be thinking about, and that is the 6 electronic I.D. 7 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: That is correct. 8 That is just kind of pulling a couple of things 9 together. The electronic I.D. of all PCs, 10 according to the national plan, will be ISO 11 compliance. 12 That means International Standards, that 13 they would have to comply with that. There are 14 currently some I.D. devices being used in goats 15 and probably the most popular I.D. device used in 16 the goats does not comply with ISO standards. 17 There will probably again be a 18 transitional period. At some point with that day 19 yet to be determined, any electronic I.D.s, 20 regardless of species considered, will have to 21 meet certain ISO standards in the numbering system 22 specifically. 23 I had another thought about when you 24 said that, Allen, but it escapes me. With regards 25 to the sheep and what is happening, I am also on 491 1 the sheep working group, and so I am 2 participating. 3 I have not literally as much as I would 4 like to, but I will continue to participate with 5 that group. A lot of what is being recommended 6 and discussed in the sheep group will probably 7 have application to what is being said in the goat 8 industry. 9 At some point there is a combination of 10 sheep goats and break-out sheep and goats. Since 11 a lot of the things may be the same, you know, it 12 is to be expected that we will have some 13 components that the sheep people will have or 14 recommend it. 15 There are field trials being conducted 16 right now with various types of tests under 17 different management, under different environment 18 to try to see the retention, for example, the 19 durability of the various types of tags. 20 Because we are asking that we be given 21 some additional time to see results of the field 22 trials, have additional field trials before we 23 make a firm recommendation or a specific type of 24 I.D. device, we are asking that we continue in the 25 transition. 492 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: Reyna. 2 DIRECTOR REYNA: I have also felt really 3 negatively about ear tags until last year, well, 4 this year. At the nationals, I talked extensively 5 to Sue Barker, and her herd has been testing very 6 small ear tags with a very small piercing device, 7 and I was really cheered about if it should 8 happen, because she has lost no tags, she had no 9 torn ears. 10 It has worked out very well. I guess 11 she is not the only tester in Canada. I have been 12 kind of trying in my District, when I talk to 13 people about we may never have tags, I am trying 14 to make this, you know, to say this information, 15 it would not be the end of the world. 16 There are people using tags and they are 17 little bitty tags on very large herds, and they 18 have great success with it. It has really not 19 caused any big problem. You know, we may never 20 have to do it, but it wouldn't hurt anything to 21 convey the information that it is not all that 22 bad. 23 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: We also need to 24 remember we are looking at goats that are meat 25 dairy fiber, so a lot of fabrication. So, the 493 1 information that we take in trying to come up with 2 uniform recommendations, you know, we are getting 3 this input not just from the dairy but one of the 4 effects of the other segments and possibly come up 5 with something that we can all accept and it is 6 workable. 7 In the end, it has to be something that 8 truly works in order to be able to meet the 48- 9 hour trace back and appropriated in that is the 10 expense that will be incurred for the individual 11 producer. 12 I am grateful we are being allowed to 13 have input. It is frustrating and it seems to be 14 moving slowly. I would like to take a poll of the 15 group here and I would like to know how many of 16 you have either been contacted by or have 17 contacted your state veterinarians about a 18 premises I.D., a national analog premise I.D. in 19 your respective state. 20 DIRECTOR ROWE: Not all of them have it. 21 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: Specifically to the 22 National NYU. Have you contacted them or they 23 have contacted you? I would suggest at some 24 opportunity, if you have not done so, you have not 25 been contacted, that you take the opportunity to 494 1 contact your State Department of Agriculture, and 2 you may be directed to the appropriate person. 3 You can inquire about obtaining a 4 national animal I.D., the premises I.D. This is a 5 first component of the whole system. We have 6 premises I.D. and we have individual animal 7 identification. 8 So the first step in the whole thing is 9 to get all the premises identification so there 10 will be a global picture of where the premises are 11 in the United States. I would just highly suggest 12 that you have that interaction with your 13 Department of Agriculture. 14 DIRECTOR ROWE: This is changing the 15 subject a bit, but this one sort of vision is 16 copied and that is this system will include a 17 point of recording animal movement, and as a 18 registry we have bar codes on our registration 19 paper, the long-range application, the information 20 management. 21 We might be able to provide for shows 22 the technology to scan registration papers that 23 have been validated against animals, and then 24 provide the means for a fair's show to report 25 their animal movement based on our registration 495 1 and information technology. 2 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I thank you for that 3 discussion on what responsibilities the 4 Association may have in terms of providing 5 information. Should there be an outbreak of a 6 disease, we need to have this program in place. 7 The individual association would 8 probably have some kind of responsibilities to 9 provide this kind of information, tracking. So, 10 we have addressed it earlier, but I want to make 11 sure that the Board is aware of that, the 12 Association will be providing that kind of 13 information should it be needed. 14 DIRECTOR LAWSON: Now, I am confused 15 about the scrapie I.D., because we were one of the 16 first. I think our number is like 305. 17 Is that different than what you are 18 talking about? 19 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: That was what was 20 available in the beginning. The scrapie program 21 was the idea we were initially familiar with. 22 Other species didn't have that, so now we are 23 saying we want a national system where everybody 24 has a permanent I.D. regardless of whether you are 25 in the need help program. 496 1 So that number in most states, I am 2 finding in some states they are not, the states 3 handle them a little differently. That number 4 should be linked to the database with a new 5 number. 6 You will be assigned a new number that 7 meets the format. That is the number that will 8 eventually be in the animal I.D. system. In the 9 interim period, it is being linked. But 10 eventually, that will be the only number you will 11 have. 12 DIRECTOR LAWSON: Do I need to contact 13 my state? 14 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: Dr. Hillman, your 15 state veterinarian, or someone on staff will be 16 able to give you the direction as to what is 17 happening in your state. 18 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bryan. 19 DIRECTOR BRYAN: I am just curious. Are 20 other states than ours not requiring premises 21 I.D.? Our state is. 22 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: That is a state-by- 23 state decision on requiring that. 24 DIRECTOR BRYAN: It gets people involved 25 when you sell an animal and the 4-H requires an 497 1 I.D., and they can't show that. 2 Are you referring to scrapie? 3 DIRECTOR ROWE: We are talking about two 4 different programs here, and your question related 5 to how they tie together. So the scrapie program, 6 there was no change from what you would have been 7 experiencing. 8 These comments are how our existing 9 programs, how we will transition into an all- 10 species, all-encompassing program for animal 11 identification. Most states are staying with the 12 same procedures that you are using for your 13 scrapie program until the National Animal 14 Identification Program becomes in place. 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: Weaver. 16 DIRECTOR WEAVER: I am not sure this 17 would apply. A short time ago I received a 18 letter, and it came from the state office, and it 19 had to do with the scrapie identification program. 20 I looked at it and, of course, we get a lot of 21 junk mail, and I guess most people do, so in the 22 shredder it went. I am not sure whether that 23 refers to the National Identification thing or 24 not. 25 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: That may be a part 498 1 of your question page. That may have been an 2 explanation of what is happening with the scrapie 3 I.D. and the National Animal I.D. You might want 4 to check back with your department on that. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: Anybody have anything 6 else for Linda? She has done a lot of work with 7 the I.D. program, and it has been a working group 8 that she is a member. 9 If there are no more questions on that, 10 we will go for lunch time. We will take a break 11 until 1:00 o'clock. When we come back, we will 12 continue in order, which will be History, Shari 13 Reyna. 14 (NOON RECESS.) 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: All right. I believe 16 we are ready to begin. 17 Shari, do you want to come up and give 18 your History report? Then the National Show Long- 19 Range Committee wants to go next. 20 REPORT OF THE HISTORY COMMITTEE 21 DIRECTOR REYNA: I don't have a lot to 22 say. I am assuming that you have all read the 23 report. I have no decisions by the Board. I do 24 think that is very good news that the records have 25 been transported to the National Agricultural 499 1 Library and that they are very interested in them. 2 I also could tell you that in the last 3 week I organized a raffle to try to raise -- it is 4 going to take a significant amount of money to 5 save these records, because they are in very bad 6 shape. 7 The booth so far has taken in somewhere 8 between $350 and $400. So that is really good. 9 Should you want them, I do have sort of a budget. 10 This is to go into a grant that I am trying to 11 write to get funds. 12 NAL wrote me up a probable budget and 13 describing what needs to be done. If any of you 14 want one, Shirley has copies. 15 OFFICE MANAGER McKENZIE: They have been 16 handed out. 17 DIRECTOR REYNA: Does anyone have any 18 questions? Okay. Thank you. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rowe. 20 DIRECTOR ROWE: My question relates to 21 the Pioneer Program, and I know that initially it 22 was developed by a member without any sort of 23 external support from the Association. I am 24 wondering if your Committee has given any thought 25 to adopting this program or requesting that it be 500 1 adopted within the activities of the History 2 group? Is that something that the Board might 3 consider in terms of funding? 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: Shari. 5 DIRECTOR REYNA: Sheila, would you like 6 to go next? 7 DIRECTOR NIXON: Last year the Board 8 made the Pioneer Program a part of the Annual 9 Meeting and it is part of the Annual Meeting, and 10 put it under the umbrella of the History 11 Committee. So we get our advice from them. 12 I personally, however, would not prefer 13 to have it funded by ADGA. I think it is a much 14 more meaningful program when we can fund it 15 through donations from interested members, and so 16 far our membership has been very generous in 17 supporting it. 18 I don't have good ideas about things 19 like that. Pat Hendrickson passed the hat the 20 other night and we got one hundred eighty some 21 dollars from the people that were at the program. 22 It was just wonderful. 23 We don't spend a lot of money. The 24 plaques are not expensive. The buttons are not 25 expensive. The participants do their own 501 1 PowerPoints, or whatever. I am more than willing 2 to donate my PowerPoint, and we do get donations 3 to pay for the DVDs that we record on. 4 Perhaps in some time when we get enough 5 collections to reproduce them, it might be at that 6 time that ADGA might want to consider paying for 7 the reproductions so that we can issue them to the 8 office. 9 The Al Rogers case needs some -- the 10 sound byte is very poor quality. Shirley tells me 11 there is a lab that can take it and fix it so that 12 it is much easier to understand. At that point we 13 will be ready to reproduce them perhaps with 14 assistance. 15 But as far as the program itself, I 16 really prefer that it be subsidized by the 17 membership. 18 DIRECTOR REYNA: If and when we do make 19 copies, we probably should supply a copy to NAL 20 for preservation sake. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bryan. 22 DIRECTOR BRYAN: Shari, a member asked 23 me a question, which I didn't have the answer to. 24 It was how are we going about getting pedigree 25 information from the years before the book? 502 1 DIRECTOR REYNA: At this point, they are 2 not usable. They are stuck together and they are 3 covered with black mold and things like that. 4 That is one of the reasons why I am trying to 5 hurry and get this, trying to raise this money. 6 There is an article in this month's News 7 & Events saying that it is deductible, and the 8 various ways to donate money. I am working on a 9 grant, and that sort of thing. But they will be, 10 once they are stabilized and put into acid-free 11 envelopes, because they are a risk to the 12 laboratory like they are now. 13 Once they are stabilized and in good 14 condition, they will index them and anybody can go 15 there and work on them. 16 DIRECTOR BRYAN: This is a follow-up to 17 that. Would they be able to either by mail or e- 18 mail, or any other way once they are ready, be 19 able to get answers from the library? 20 DIRECTOR REYNA: There will be ways of 21 accessing, absolutely. They will not be put into 22 the ADGA database unless a lot of other money is 23 raised. It will be totally prohibitive, but they 24 will be indexed, and we are very fortunate that 25 Gary Moore, you know he lives quite close, but he 503 1 also is going to be working on a contract at NAL 2 for the next year or so, and they do need member 3 input about the most appropriate way to organize 4 them and so on. 5 Gary is trying to be there. They hired 6 him because he was an archival librarian before he 7 was a computer person. He is going to be there 8 and is planning to spend his time, bless his 9 heart, helping us with that project. It also will 10 save us a bunch of money. 11 Any other questions? 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Altheide. 13 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: Shari, I think you 14 need a little recognition for coming up with a 15 creative idea. I would like to say thank you. 16 DIRECTOR REYNA: Thank you. (Applause) 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. The National 18 Show Long-Range Committee wants to go next. 19 Daniel and Greg Morris are going to do it. Dan is 20 going to be the supportable. Never mind. It is 21 Greg. 22 REPORT OF NATIONAL SHOW LONG-RANGE GOALS 23 AND POLICIES COMMITTEE 24 DIRECTOR MORRIS: The Committee, once we 25 had a site for this year, we decided not to bring 504 1 it to the Board. We have many issues with the 2 different proposals. We have the Amarillo, Texas, 3 group. 4 We are giving a list back to that group 5 to allow them to re-enter and work on it for the 6 future, to come back next year. We do have the 7 contract for Indiana. It has been signed, and 8 Shirley received it back and made a deposit for 9 the facility next year. 10 Site inspection has been done. Daniel 11 Gillette stopped on the way to the National 12 looking at the site and it has been completed. 13 What you see behind me is two different budgets 14 for the National Show for next year. 15 That is something that Daniel and I have 16 been working on. We have tried to finalize it 17 this morning so we can get Board action. We have 18 two different scenarios up here. 19 DIRECTOR RUCKER: We don't have a copy. 20 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I can print it out and 21 we can issue hard copies. Does that help at all? 22 It is now a big black dot. There is a big dot 23 standing in the middle of it. I realize that. 24 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: We have got 25 numbers here for the Indiana show, and Greg came 505 1 up with a program for that. Most of these numbers 2 are pretty good bets based on the budgets that we 3 recently had. 4 The reason he put it up there this way 5 is that we have places on the income side here, 6 and the number of head that would be entered, 7 which would be Column C, and instead of Column D, 8 and Column H becomes Column I. 9 Then the reason we have both of those is 10 that it shows you how it works out, $10 for entry 11 fee and a $5 group fee. That is the area that you 12 see. We are pretty confident that the rest of 13 those numbers work, and then he has worked these 14 up and you can see them in the box. 15 DIRECTOR MORRIS: If you remember last 16 year, when the group made their presentation, they 17 were working on a grant from Indiana. The State 18 of Indiana, for the livestock, I can't remember 19 exactly what the grant is called, they have 20 changed governors in their state. 21 When you change political parties, 22 things are not really the same. The governor put 23 a freeze on everything. He has made them go back 24 and re-apply for their grant. Daniel and I worked 25 this out with no grant money in it whatsoever. 506 1 If the grant money still comes through, 2 they are under the understanding that they are 3 supposed to know, it will make a difference. I 4 think I have been getting the same answer to that 5 since February, when I was supposed to type that 6 out. 7 We worked through it with no grant 8 included. If the grant comes in, you can plug the 9 number down in here on the spreadsheet and it will 10 show you what the difference to the bottom line 11 would be. 12 So, this shows the bottom at $10 per 13 head rate, with 2,000 head of animals, that there 14 will be a $1,200 loss. If there is 2,200 animals 15 that show up, you are at a $2,000 profit. We put 16 a fairly large -- 17 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: You 18 misspoke. Two thousand entries paid means 30 19 percent roughly less per show. The first column 20 is entry, the original entries of 2,000, and the 21 second is 2,200 of the original entries. 22 DIRECTOR MORRIS: Correct. That is 23 right. Anyhow, we have estimated the income on 24 the low side, and we are on the high side on the 25 expenses to try to make it a worst-case scenario 507 1 on both sides. 2 The least number of animals, the highest 3 expenses included in it. The contract was signed 4 at $41,500 for the State Fair. In that, it does 5 state in the contract not to exceed certain 6 prices. 7 Any questions that you want to know or 8 do you want me to show you what it looks like if 9 we put the $15,000 in? 10 PRESIDENT SAUM: Shari Reyna. 11 DIRECTOR REYNA: I just have a question. 12 What dose the Committee think that the impact of 13 high gas prices will have on the National Show? 14 DIRECTOR MORRIS: That is why we figured 15 the low animal numbers. The local groups normally 16 have a pie in the sky attitude on what they think 17 the animal numbers are going to be, so we went to 18 2,000 head. We went by the historical number. 19 Daniel and I went back and looked at the National 20 Shows, and Daniel has it in front of him. 21 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: The relevant 22 ones we compared to would be in Iowa there were 23 actually only 1,800. That translates to 2,300 24 entries. Going back to Minnesota, the Great Falls 25 area, and Illinois, just under 1,700, and maybe 508 1 1,900. Those are the ranges of actually showing 2 animals. 3 We are predicting here a little bit less 4 than that. I don't know how you do that. Our 5 number predicts a hundred or so less than were 6 shown in Iowa. 7 DIRECTOR MORRIS: At the '96 National 8 Show, at that time that was high gas prices, too. 9 That year the gas prices jumped about 50 cents a 10 gallon that year. So it did affect it somewhere 11 that year. We thought the numbers were down. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Pat. 13 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: The $41,500, what 14 does all that include? I can't read the breakdown 15 on the side of it. Is that each bar getting 16 removal and that kind of thing? 17 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I can address that for 18 you. That is the two buildings. That is the 19 setup of the pens in the buildings. That is the 20 cleanup of the building. That is the janitorial 21 services during the week, the security for the 22 week, the sound system, telephone and parking. 23 The parking, actually they will charge 24 parking during the National Show. They have 25 people that work their gates that collect the 509 1 money. We have put the price in and out at the 2 exact same price. 3 We just want the exhibitors to know 4 before they come that a parking sticker is 5 required so they don't drive for two days and get 6 there at 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning. You get 7 upset when somebody wants $9 to park for the week. 8 We showed the in and out price on the 9 same line. The local club has donated the food 10 for the welcome dinner, and the only expense on 11 the welcome dinner is their expense will be the 12 catering service, which is required by state law 13 in Indiana for them to serve the food. That is 14 also reflected. 15 The welcome dinner shows $5, and it 16 shows a cost of $3. There is a little give and 17 take in there. If their caterer comes in at $5, 18 they are still covered at $5. We will collect the 19 money for them, and that is the way they have 20 asked it be done, but they are paying for it. It 21 is that we want to make sure that the caterer gets 22 paid. 23 PRESIDENT SAUM: Callahan. 24 DIRECTOR CALLAHAN: I don't know what 25 this is, the milk disposal. 510 1 DIRECTOR MORRIS: Last year, if you 2 remember, there was an issue with milk disposal. 3 They said it originally could be dumped down the 4 sanitary drain and then they said you couldn't. 5 When I went to the State Fair this year to meet 6 with them after the National Show, the Indiana 7 State Fair was the following week, and I went to 8 them. 9 It is in the contract that the milk be 10 disposed of in the sanitary drains. I insisted 11 that has to be in the schedule, an addendum to the 12 contract. That is covered under that. Any other 13 questions? 14 Helen, can you live with this? 15 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: I can't see it. 16 I would like to have a hard copy. 17 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I will print off a 18 hard copy. As soon as I get through I will print 19 it and distribute it to the whole group. 20 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: On the milk 21 disposal, we have had problems with the system 22 being down in the past, it cannot carry the load. 23 Do we have a plan in place where there will not be 24 a facility charge? 25 DIRECTOR MORRIS: They tell me if there 511 1 is a problem they will fix the problem and at no 2 additional cost. They said their drain system 3 will handle it. 4 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: We have heard 5 that before. I also just want Plan B. Do we have 6 a Plan B? 7 DIRECTOR MORRIS: There is a Plan B. 8 The President of the Indiana Dairy Goat 9 Association, and I know I will mispronounce his 10 name, Jerry Lubbehusen, works for a fertilizer 11 company. He can get the tanks like we had in 12 Iowa. Those tanks are available if we need to do 13 that for pump-out purposes. 14 Any other questions? Like Dan and I 15 said, we need to have Board action on how we want 16 to go with our fee structure on this. If there is 17 ny number you want to change, and you would like 18 to see what it looks like with more or less 19 animals, I can change it and show you what it is 20 right here. 21 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: Can you go 22 back to the top of that thing, Greg? There is a 23 difference on the side with two different sets of 24 animals, also. 25 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I can change that. 512 1 Instead of $15, if you would like to see it at a 2 different fee price, we can actually put it back 3 to the same price it has been. That way there is 4 no issue. 5 This eliminates headaches, I believe, 6 for the Committee, and especially for the chair 7 because they don't have to get in an argument, 8 because there are 1,400 pens in these two barns. 9 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: Our numbers 10 there, we wouldn't use all of them, but you see 11 the fourth line down, 2,000 head original entries, 12 and it would be 800 pens used, and at 2,200, it 13 would be about 850 pens that are used for the 14 animals. 15 So, in other words, the income is 16 reduced from the middle column to the right column 17 in each of those cases. That is why the bottom 18 line will work. I would like to go with the $10 19 number and the $5 group class. I think that will 20 be encouraging to our exhibitors if we do that. 21 The reason we brought it to you before 22 saying we should really do it is to make sure you 23 are aware of it. If we only get 2,000 animals 24 original entry and we don't get the $15,000, there 25 will be a $2,000 loss. If we get the $15,000, 513 1 which Greg said we probably will get, and with a 2 $10 entry fee, we will have $50,000 of income. 3 DIRECTOR MORRIS: Linda and George 4 pointed out to me I had the tax number wrong, so 5 that is why I made the change there. 6 PRESIDENT SAUM: I think at this point 7 the National Shows Committee is asking you for 8 direction on what you want to charge, the National 9 Show Long-Range Goals and Policies Committee. 10 Rucker. 11 DIRECTOR RUCKER: I am not comfortable 12 making a decision or recommendation until I can 13 actually see the figures. 14 DIRECTOR MORRIS: That is fair enough. 15 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: That is my 16 question as well, too. We don't have the 17 variables that come in. I have a little problem 18 with the Board making that decision. They would 19 be locked into it if something comes up. 20 PRESIDENT SAUM: Considine. 21 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: Well, 22 actually, I respectfully believe that the Board 23 should be involved in this decision. I think that 24 the pricing of entries at the National Show has an 25 impact on participation. 514 1 I realize that you need it made 2 somewhere and I prefer it be made here. If you 3 feel the need to have some margin for extra things 4 that might come up, then you might want to have a 5 little higher number. I feel the Board should 6 decide it. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Altheide. 8 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: I agree with Daniel 9 that we should have input from the Board. I agree 10 with it halfway. I disagree that we need to 11 propose a budget that shows a loss for the 12 National Show. 13 I think we should use a higher fee to 14 reflect that we don't want, given the amount of 15 people that complain that the National Show is 16 being subsidized by the general membership, we 17 should not propose a budget for the National Show 18 that shows that it is being subsidized by the 19 general membership. 20 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rucker. 21 DIRECTOR RUCKER: I am not sure if we 22 are going to get the grant money. Could it be 23 something that we go with the higher figure, and 24 if we get the grant money you go back to the lower 25 figure? That means we are not operating on a 515 1 negative budget. If it comes in, we are fine. 2 PRESIDENT SAUM: Is that a motion? 3 DIRECTOR RUCKER: I am not ready to make 4 a motion until I see the figures. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: Greg just said he is 6 willing to leave and go get the printer and bring 7 it back, and you can have it in front of you, and 8 then we will resume. Is that reasonable? 9 Gustafson. 10 DIRECTOR GUSTAFSON: Just a word of 11 caution. If we get the entry fees and the tent 12 fees too high, not only are you looking at two 13 different factors, you are looking at increasing 14 possibly the revenue on the income you have 15 coming, but on the flip side of that, you need to 16 look at the factor that you are going to reduce 17 the number of animals coming in simply because the 18 exhibitors can't afford it. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: Faircloth. 20 DIRECTOR FAIRCLOTH: What is the size of 21 the pens? 22 DIRECTOR MORRIS: Those in the first 23 building are six by eight, and the Champion 24 Pavilion, those pens are six to six. 25 DIRECTOR FAIRCLOTH: Those are awfully 516 1 small pens for that. 2 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: That is a 3 valid point, but we have to have more for a 4 National Show. Twenty is the number that we saw 5 in other shows. I believe that is what was there. 6 The 15 reduction from that, as far as the animals, 7 there has been a fair amount generated, and I 8 guess your position was that to have more price on 9 the entry of the animal compared to that, if that 10 makes it relevant. 11 Somehow, you have got to get quite a 12 little money out of the exhibitors to make the 13 show work. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: Greg is going to go get 15 us copies. 16 DIRECTOR MORRIS: We will go print it 17 and we will be right back. 18 PRESIDENT SAUM: I think that it would 19 be nice to have something to take home. We will 20 let you do that, Greg. 21 Strickland. 22 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: Can anyone tell me 23 when the last year was that the National Show was 24 subsidized by ADGA. 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: Helen, do you want to 517 1 answer that? Since you have been Chair, have you 2 made a profit? 3 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: Yes, while I was 4 Chair there was a profit. I was a little panicky 5 this year, but I think we are going to be okay. I 6 can't actually remember. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: When did you take over? 8 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: In Colorado. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: Considine. 10 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: The last one 11 I remember was in Peoria. Even before that, we 12 had shows that were negative that were coming in. 13 I don't think we had a lot other than that for 14 several years prior to that. 15 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: We had a small loss 16 in 2001. 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: Altheide said we had a 18 small loss in 2001. It was a couple of thousand 19 dollars. 20 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: In Springfield, 21 Massachusetts. 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 23 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: Is it not true 24 also that we have the budget set so that there is 25 an accumulation of national funds to build up for 518 1 the national meeting? 2 PRESIDENT SAUM: That is a separate 3 fund. 4 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: So, really the 5 membership has not subsidized the National Shows. 6 I think we should make some effort to notify our 7 members so they realize it is not subsidized and 8 we have been fiscally responsible with that show. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: That is a good point, 10 Chris. 11 Hendrickson. 12 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: Has there been 13 any thought in having a multiple entry level 14 different than that? I know that a number of 15 people this year at the National Show, of course, 16 there were people that drive, but I had people 17 that only brought milkers saying well, at 10 bucks 18 a whack, I wasn't going to show any kids. It is 19 not worth it to me to bring the kids. 20 Is it a possibility that the kid's 21 entry, where it comes out of that less? That 22 might get a lot of additional entries in junior 23 ones. I mean, that is something to think about. 24 That is a lot of money if you are entering 15 25 goats and you bring 10 milkers and an extra five 519 1 kids for the same price, it gets a little 2 expensive. But if less, they may bring more kids. 3 It is something that might be considered this year 4 to see if we could encourage more juniors to show. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: Thank you, Pat. If we 6 don't have anything else until Greg comes back, 7 Dan Considine. 8 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: A little 9 more on information that we have got from Amarillo 10 is in order. I did have some people there that 11 were trying to bring us here. The problem that we 12 saw, you know, mainly was in the cost. 13 There were two areas that we couldn't 14 resolve, and hopefully could be resolved. There 15 are only four shower stalls. The people showers, 16 the other event because of the type of facility, 17 is mainly on the stalls. 18 We pay for the building, and their way 19 of doing this, the building, every stall you use 20 is $35. It adds up to an awful lot of money. 21 Some of the stalls are actually poor. There are 22 some at $35 and some at $40. 23 In order to make this work in the 24 budget, the numbers that were certified is $30 an 25 animal and $20 a pen is outrageous. Now, that has 520 1 been improved somewhat and we may be able to go 2 there, but you have nice stalls where everyone 3 would have a lot of room for that $35. 4 An offsetting part of the cost is that 5 the hotel prices that were given by the Exhibitors 6 Bureau were really attractive. Exhibitors will be 7 able to stay for less money than we usually find 8 in hotels. This was an issue there. We feel that 9 people could probably live with that. The two 10 that really were a problem were showers and the 11 price of the facility were hard to make it work. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bryan. 13 DIRECTOR BRYAN: This is a comment. At 14 the Virginia State Fair, they do bring in units 15 with showers that are quite portable bathrooms, 16 and they have got portable showers that they can 17 bring in. I don't know whether these are 18 available or what kind of cost they are. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: That is a good 20 suggestion. 21 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: That was 22 addressed and we may have a way to do that. I 23 have a feeling that after this issue they will be 24 able to figure that out. 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: Helen Snyder. 521 1 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: One is the 2 location of Gillette as well. That was a 3 consideration for that. Again on the showers, 4 that again would add to the cost of the show. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: Jamie Burks. 6 DIRECTOR BURKS: The Chamber of Commerce 7 in Amarillo is doing their best and are willing to 8 work to see that this happens. That is my 9 understanding this is the way it is. 10 PRESIDENT SAUM: Dan Considine. 11 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: They are the 12 person who traveled here, an employee of the 13 Visitors Bureau. They were here, and they went to 14 a lot of trouble to send somebody up here. Yes, 15 they are very interested, and hopefully they will 16 work this out. 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: Their previous Chamber 18 of Commerce was very accommodating actually down 19 there. They put in $20,000 in money. So they 20 have been easy to work with. 21 Greg is back. 22 DIRECTOR MORRIS: They are making the 23 copies for you of the spreadsheet. The Amarillo 24 group, what Daniel was speaking about, they have 25 been working very hard. It is not just that they 522 1 made some partial attempt at it. They have been 2 working hard at it. 3 We sent them back an issue. I believe 4 in the computer they can get what we need to do 5 and have a show there. But it is just this timing 6 was just not there. There are other groups that 7 are wanting to host it. California, as you can 8 read on here, that is during the State Fair. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rowe. 10 DIRECTOR ROWE: A quick comment about 11 the differences between the State Fair and the 12 potential that Amarillo has gone to, at least for 13 the future. I think that our ideal way to work 14 with the fair, they might open the fair, perhaps 15 come in before the opening of the fair and 16 potentially have the entire facility instead of 17 just a portion of it. 18 Jay Carlson, who actually does work the 19 fair in a different capacity, has pulled the prior 20 bids and is working with us to formulate that in a 21 positive manner. 22 DIRECTOR MORRIS: As I understand it, 23 somebody that works for the fair, his family is 24 now into goats. They have become a little more 25 interested in it. That is a good thing. But we 523 1 have other groups that are interested, and next 2 year we are hoping that there will definitely be a 3 bid for 2008 and 2009. 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: I would like to 5 recognize Jean Miller that came in the room. She 6 is joining us in the meeting. She is a former 7 Director. 8 DIRECTOR MORRIS: Any other questions 9 before you get your spreadsheet to look at? I 10 didn't format it with boxes around all of it. Dan 11 informed me I need to go to an Excel class because 12 I didn't do it right. 13 Is there anything from the Board that 14 they want us to look at for the Long-Range 15 Committee work? 16 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: I know we 17 discussed it privately about shorting the National 18 Show. Considering a two-ring format, that it 19 would be a shorter time span, and some of the 20 other things that would be more enjoyable for a 21 National Show to bring those back, for making them 22 more enjoyable for exhibitors. 23 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I can tell you that 24 after speaking to Sheila, and she had expressed 25 interest in working on a two-ring format, and she 524 1 is going to do that over the winter, to make sure 2 we can make it work with a two-ring format. She 3 is using information, and I told her we could 4 apply her, and she is going to work on that for 5 us. 6 Another thing that came up in Committee 7 the other night, and we are going to work on it, 8 has to do with the wine and cheese. We are 9 looking at changing the way that is done somehow. 10 We have had some issues, I don't know, with people 11 in the past having a little bit too much wine to 12 drink and having too good of a time. 13 We are going to look at next year of 14 possibly going to a ticket where you get two 15 glasses of wine and that's it for the whole thing, 16 so nobody goes home sloshed or they don't get an 17 extra wine to give to an underage drinker. That 18 was the concern that came up. We are looking into 19 that. 20 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rowe. 21 DIRECTOR ROWE: Do you have a topic 22 relating to the Production Award? One is the 23 publishing of the details of the production of the 24 award winners, those are entrusted into Membership 25 in recording the results. 525 1 The other, I understand there was a 2 total former award offered. I personally support 3 that kind of an award, and thinking that with our 4 new database that even the potential for 5 streamlining the complication of that kind of 6 award, and that it will be on the show staff. I 7 wondered if you had given that any thought or 8 planning to do anything like that. 9 DIRECTOR MORRIS: Helen, do you want to 10 speak on that? 11 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: Yes, we did have 12 some of that. We had production from the active 13 participants in the show. It is a lot easier for 14 me to do this this year. There are still animals 15 in there that missed on that report. 16 We still had to go through the file and 17 pick them out. It didn't make it in here, but we 18 still had to specifically do that. Maybe that can 19 be streamlined in the future. I am not sure what 20 you mean by the publication of it, because those 21 are in the result books. 22 DIRECTOR ROWE: I believe the names are 23 in there of the production animals. 24 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: The whole 25 production. 526 1 DIRECTOR ROWE: If I see the printing in 2 variables, I assume they are feedback from that. 3 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: Yes. I think 4 that is it. 5 DIRECTOR MORRIS: For clarification, you 6 are talking about what the actual production was? 7 DIRECTOR ROWE: Yes. 8 DIRECTOR MORRIS: Any other thing to 9 report? 10 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 11 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: I have a question. 12 One of the comments I heard related to what Joan 13 Rowe said about the award. I understood the 14 sponsor of that award did all the calculations and 15 collected the information for that. 16 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I will let Helen 17 answer that question because I am not sure on 18 that. 19 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: We are talking 20 about two different things. I know what you are 21 speaking about. There was the performance offered 22 this year, was a whole group, and they did 23 everything. 24 They gathered all the papers, worked it, 25 but there was a little confusion on the entry, 527 1 because people thought they were entering both at 2 the same time. So they didn't have duplicates. 3 Even Gloria put on there that it was a duplicate. 4 Some people did not see that. It made 5 it later difficult to do. But that was locally 6 done and a one-time deal, and they specifically 7 did it. 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 9 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: Just a follow-up. 10 I am bringing this to the Committee to consider 11 the continuing award, and I know that Dr. Adkins 12 is in favor of looking at some of that. 13 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I wasn't paying 14 attention. Will you repeat that? 15 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: The information 16 that came to me from District VII was that Dr. 17 Adkins was interested in that program to continue 18 and was willing to do financial support of that. 19 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I will let my friend 20 know that. Thank you. Any other questions? I 21 think you have got one of the sheets. I don't 22 know which one you have. 23 DIRECTOR RUCKER: Twelve dollars. 24 DIRECTOR MORRIS: The other one is 25 coming. 528 1 Do you have a question, Tom? 2 DIRECTOR RUCKER: Yes. Do the display 3 animals, you have income of entry fees on the 4 display animals? 5 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I will have to ask 6 Helen to answer that. 7 Helen, can you answer that? 8 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: There should not 9 be an entry fee on display and as always only pen 10 fees. 11 DIRECTOR MORRIS: We will take that out. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Hendrickson. 13 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: I think I might 14 have a problem historically with the people that 15 came in at a rate of 2.5 goats per pen. Is there 16 some basis for that calculation, or are you 17 calculating on the size? 18 I would not dream of putting two and a 19 half adults goats in an eight by eight pen. One 20 might be pretty tight in a six by six pen. Is 21 that true? 22 DIRECTOR MORRIS: It was. The way we 23 figured it, if we went by the -- we would use 24 historical how much pen fee was charged and how 25 much the pens were, and went by the number of 529 1 animals and divided it out, and historically that 2 is what it works out. It is actually 2.6, but we 3 have got 2.5 on this sheet. 4 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: I was just 5 wondering how you arrived at that. 6 DIRECTOR MORRIS: That is how we arrived 7 at it. We looked at the history on it. For 8 information for this next year, the pens are 9 pretty convertible-type pens. If you want to have 10 a long pen, you can take the pens apart and then 11 have a long group of pens. 12 The price was there for the entry fee. 13 No, it is not there. I will take it back and pull 14 the sheet back up here and will change the number 15 at the bottom. 16 What sheet are you looking at so I can 17 tell you what change amount? Are you looking at 18 the ten dollar entry or a higher entry? 19 DIRECTOR RUCKER: The higher entry fee. 20 DIRECTOR MORRIS: With no grant, at 21 2,000 animals, at the bottom it comes out to a 22 $1,950 profit. At 2,200 animals -- 23 DIRECTOR SENN: We were wondering if you 24 have the vendors' fee in here. Is that a wash? 25 DIRECTOR MORRIS: We put the vendor fees 530 1 under miscellaneous income. There is no charge 2 for the tables. They are included in it. 3 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I am just curious 4 what else is there under other show income. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: Can you address that, 6 Helen? What is in other show income? That comes 7 from your part of the National Shows. 8 DIRECTOR MORRIS: We went back and 9 looked at historical information for other 10 National Shows to derive our numbers as accurately 11 as possible. 12 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: We have got 13 that, and I think Shirley probably would be better 14 to answer what all is in that column. I don't 15 seem to have that expense. I don't have the 16 actual income. 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rucker, do you want to 18 do that while Shirley looks for it? 19 DIRECTOR RUCKER: Under Other 20 Miscellaneous, last year I made a point that the 21 National Show budget, 10 percent of their expenses 22 were miscellaneous expense. It was assured that 23 would be broken out this year. 24 This year it is 13 percent, still billed 25 as other. We have seven grand in miscellaneous. 531 1 We need more than miscellaneous. I want to know 2 where the money is going. It needs to be 3 categorized for that large of an expense. 4 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I can address that. 5 This is just a proposal that we needed someplace 6 to put basically overrun expenses that we had not 7 thought of. We put that in there, a high number 8 with intention that it will not be that much. 9 Whatever they are, we will spell them out. I just 10 went by historical information. 11 DIRECTOR RUCKER: Well, $7,000 is high 12 compared to the amount we just got on this year's 13 show. 14 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I can address that a 15 little bit. I think I will let Helen say what she 16 was going to say on expenses. 17 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: I can give you 18 what the expenses are in the miscellaneous. In 19 miscellaneous was shipping from the office, 20 supplies from the ADGA office to the facility and 21 back again. 22 There is computer setup. That was our 23 setup of the computer by Bryan. Brown's Printing, 24 that was for 500 check-in sheets, 400 check-in 25 sheets and 500 ring cards. We had vet services. 532 1 The welcome dinner was in that. 2 West Coast National was there for $1,860 3 in straw. The porta-potties and hand washing 4 stations were in there. The signs and banners 5 were in there. The table skirting and framework 6 was in there. 7 On my sheet I had hotel charges on 8 there, but I believe that Shirley had taken that 9 out and put it in the proper place. Other 10 miscellaneous items were cables and labels that 11 were used in the office. 12 We purchased a printer, paper and a 13 surge protector, and ink. Again, I have some 14 lodging on mine. Then there are more office 15 supplies. That's all in the miscellaneous that I 16 had her break down for me. I don't have the 17 breakdown on some of it. 18 DIRECTOR RUCKER: I am not as concerned 19 as to where the money came from as to where it 20 went. I would really like to see, and I mentioned 21 it last year and thought we would see it this year 22 when we get the National Show profit and loss 23 statement, more itemized where that money went. 24 Now, $11,000 is a huge figure. We are going to 25 get a National Show. 533 1 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I would like to point 2 out this is not the National Show. This is what 3 we are proposing for next year. 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: Hendrickson. 5 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: If there is an 6 item like a printer purchased for the National 7 Show on site, why isn't that a capital expenditure 8 that is used again and again? I mean, what became 9 of the printer that was purchased? It just didn't 10 run for five days and it was thrown away. I have 11 a question. If it was $300 or $400, where is it 12 now? 13 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I think I can actually 14 speak to that. If I am not mistaken, that printer 15 was under $200. That is probably pretty close. 16 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: I wasn't 17 following that. I was talking to Phil about 18 breaking this out and having that available. 19 DIRECTOR MORRIS: The cost of the 20 printer we purchased for the National Show was not 21 an expensive printer by any means. It had been 22 shipped back to ADGA's office and will be shipped 23 back to the National Show next year. 24 It is part of the traveling equipment we 25 use for the National Show, correct? 534 1 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: Yes. 2 Was your question what was it purchased 3 for? 4 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: No. If it was 5 purchased for something to be used again and 6 again, and has a three-year life span, it should 7 be spread out three years for the National Shows 8 as an expense. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: As a capital 10 expenditure. 11 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: If it is used 12 again and again, it should be a capital 13 expenditure and not for the one individual show. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: We set $500 as the 15 minimum capital expenditure, so that is under 16 that. It is only $200. That is $200 in one year 17 or three years. 18 Okay. Let's get back to the National 19 Show Long-Range Report. We can drill Helen when 20 we get to Helen's report. 21 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: What we expense on 22 the printer is what the Board told us. You guys 23 made a policy last year if the expense of an item 24 is under $500, and the printer was under a $500 25 expense, we don't want to go back and say well, we 535 1 only wanted to spend $300. 2 Now, $500 is what the Board asked us to 3 do. That is what you-all agreed to. If you want 4 to change that in the Finance Committee or lower 5 it down, you can do that. But the printer is an 6 expense because of the dollar amount. Thanks. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: National Show Long- 8 Range, we are back to the report that you have in 9 front of you, and Long-Range is asking we give 10 direction in setting the cost of the fees. 11 DIRECTOR DEAN: I certainly appreciate 12 that we want to keep the cost as low as possible 13 in order to facilitate more and more exhibitors. 14 I am really concerned that showing a profit of 15 $1,950 for an event that has a $103,000 budget, 16 that is not giving a lot of error room for 17 something that might come up. Anything could 18 throw this into the red very, very easily. 19 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: If we set that at a 20 higher end, this would be a maximum figure and 21 allow the Committee the flexibility to be able to 22 lower theirs in the event that we discovered it 23 was different. 24 Is that a reasonable plan? 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: Is that a motion? 536 1 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I would move that we 2 accept the higher level and that the prices be up 3 to that level. 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: I want to clarify. The 5 $12 level is 2,000 animals? 6 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I will call it the 7 higher fee. It should be titled higher exhibitor 8 fee column is what I was referring to, so up to 9 that amount that is listed there. 10 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. Do we have a 11 second to that motion? 12 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: I second it. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: Now, we can discuss it. 14 Snyder. 15 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: We are going to 16 make a profit of $1,950? 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: Considine. 18 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: It is only 19 $1,950 is a number if the entry is only 2,000 and 20 the show is under 1,500. We don't know that. 21 Anyway, this $1,950, if we don't get the $15,000 22 grant, which Greg has had recent communications to 23 indicate that we may very well get it. 24 By taking the $12 figure as a maximum, 25 it is the thinking we should do, is that number is 537 1 there. There are different scenarios there. The 2 greater entry and the grant makes it a much higher 3 number. 4 DIRECTOR SENN: When looking at both 5 sides, just 325 people and 2,000 animals, and you 6 have 300 people and 2,200. You have the other 7 pages, you have a higher number on the right-hand 8 column, and that will affect that bottom line. 9 That changes these amounts, too. 10 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: If you look at 11 what was handed out for the profit and loss, the 12 judges' fee, this is a perfect example. This is 13 an in and out scenario and the area they are 14 coming from, the judges' fees this year were 15 $9,000. So that would increase your budget. 16 There are just little incidentals. It is too thin 17 a line for me to work with and not panic. 18 PRESIDENT SAUM: Are you speaking 19 against this motion and prefer to let the National 20 Show Committee set the fee? 21 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: Correct. 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: Do we have anybody else 23 speaking against the motion? Do we need to know 24 what the motion is again? 25 Linda Campbell. 538 1 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: The motion is to 2 accept the price indicated in the column "Higher 3 Exhibitor Fees." That would be a cap, a maximum 4 amount, with direction from the Committee to have 5 that lowered if the budget would allow it to be. 6 PRESIDENT SAUM: Any other comment, or 7 are we ready to vote on that? All those in favor 8 will signify by saying "aye". Any "nays"? Any 9 abstentions? May I see the "no" votes? Korhonen, 10 Pete Snyder, Helen Snyder, Patti Dean, Bonnie 11 Kempe, Charlotte Sankey, Phil Cassette. There are 12 seven "no" votes. The motion passes. 13 Allen, are you a "no" vote? Allen is an 14 abstention. There is one abstention. 15 Do you need any more questions from the 16 National Show Long-Range Goals and Policies? If 17 not, Pat, I know you have a plane tomorrow and we 18 will take the Type Committee report and that way 19 we will have it done and you will not have to 20 worry about that. 21 REPORT OF THE TYPE COMMITTEE 22 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: Lisa is passing 23 around a poster that is done by Gary Campbell. It 24 is something that we had in mind for the paintings 25 we had done, although they are not exactly what we 539 1 originally intended them to be. 2 Those of you who have seen the 3 paintings, you know they are very attractive. 4 They are quite pretty and have a nice background 5 to them. The total cost to ADGA for those 6 paintings was $1,650. 7 It was paid in two installments to 8 Regina because she had to have half before she did 9 any of the work, and then the other half was paid 10 shortly after they were delivered. We were not 11 expecting to have them done the way they were, 12 because she was supposed to have us approve a 13 pencil drawing before she moved to the coloring 14 stage for the oil painting. 15 Regina was offended when we had somebody 16 else do a true type Nigerian on short notice, and 17 her artistic temperament being what it is, she did 18 these. We felt as a Committee we should pay her 19 for the work because when we tried to do 20 corrections, she was not taking the criticism very 21 well. When she would correct something, other 22 things would not be what they were before. 23 What we wanted to do, and I did not 24 bring the receipt for shipping the paintings to 25 Joan Vandergriff. It was under $30. I will have 540 1 to find that receipt. What we would like for the 2 Board to do is give us permission to look at an 3 alternative artist for new drawings and paintings. 4 What we want actually to do is to have 5 probably an illustrator do the work We want to 6 take bids, and if we find someone who is capable 7 of doing what we want in a true type 8 representation of each of the eight breeds, we 9 want to be able to go ahead and commission that 10 person to do it. 11 In speaking with some of my Committee 12 members here at the convention, as well as a 13 couple of vendors that do artistic work, I was 14 told that we don't need an artist but an 15 illustrator. 16 That is somebody that doesn't have 17 artistic temperament to do things a certain way. 18 We want the true type depiction done all of the 19 same view. We want them with no background, so we 20 could eventually have a poster like the ones that 21 were passed out here showing the dairy goat breed 22 recognized by ADGA. 23 They would be in proportion to each 24 other in size and scale. If you look closely at 25 these, the Holstein is bigger than the Jersey. 541 1 There is a definite difference in size. This is 2 sort of what we have envisioned, to have the 3 office to be able to sell something like that from 4 a completed work. That is what we had in mind for 5 Regina to do was this type thing. 6 You can see in our year end report we 7 did want to take bids or put out a bid proposal to 8 have an artist approach us on what they would 9 charge to do the paintings or do the drawings, I 10 should say, or illustrations, however you want to 11 term it. 12 Then once we found someone to work with, 13 we could find a way to sell the paintings that we 14 have and use that money to replace someone through 15 the type we want. I am sure with those being the 16 kind of oil paintings they are, they would sell 17 for well over the $1,650 we paid for them. 18 It depends on how high a bid and how 19 much somebody would want to pay. I don't think we 20 would have to come up with additional money to 21 replace them. But what we would like for the 22 Board to do is to let us proceed with the bidding 23 process, to request the $500 be set aside to be 24 used as a deposit if we do get an artist or an 25 illustrator this year, that we feel we can work 542 1 with, to secure that person to do the work. 2 It may not happen right away. It may be 3 that we will be searching for somebody for eight 4 or nine months before we find the right person. 5 We want to make sure it is someone that can take 6 criticism and will follow through on the project. 7 I am sure each of you know somebody in 8 the art world that is artistic, that can do 9 similar kind of work or some kind of work like 10 this. We know people outside the goat industry 11 and also other livestock kind of things. 12 There is probably a lot of people that 13 could do what we want done. We want them all, we 14 want to send out inquiries and give direction and 15 find the right person to do the job. 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: Lawson. 17 DIRECTOR LAWSON: Can I make a motion at 18 this time? 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: This is the motion 20 requiring Board action is a motion. Do you have 21 something different? 22 DIRECTOR LAWSON: I was going to move 23 that her Committee be given permission to do this. 24 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. Anybody want to 25 speak against the motion? What you are voting for 543 1 is to go ahead and allow the Type Committee $500 2 to get bids for the photos. 3 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: The $500 is a 4 deposit to secure an artist, and we have an 5 agreement with that artist. This is like, you 6 know, that she is doing work for us. Regina 7 wanted a deposit when she did the original drawing 8 or the original work. 9 She was paid half up front before she 10 even put a brush to the canvas. I am assuming we 11 will get samples from people that bid, but we 12 decide if they are going to do what we want, and 13 if they want a deposit we have $500 to give them. 14 That is the idea. 15 DIRECTOR PETERSEN: Will the Board come 16 back and decide on the final price? 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: Yes. That is $500 to 18 secure a bid. 19 Am I correct? 20 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: Yes. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: She will have to ask 22 for funding of the artist or illustrator that was 23 decided upon. 24 Is that correct, Pat? 25 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: Yes. We are 544 1 anticipating that we will be able to cover, I am 2 hoping, over 100 percent of what the new paintings 3 or illustrations will cost. If we can't get a bid 4 that we feel -- that we can't get these six 5 paintings, we are not going to sign somebody up 6 without Board approval. 7 We need to be sure that we are not going 8 to be committing ADGA to any huge expenditure. 9 This is just so if we find somebody and they are 10 willing to do it, we can secure them as the 11 artist. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 13 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: Would the Chair be 14 agreeable to alter the word, and instead of saying 15 paintings, it be illustrations? 16 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: Yes. When this 17 was written, that is what we were talking about in 18 the Committee and in the e-mail correspondence was 19 other paintings. As we talked about it here, 20 several of us have decided that maybe we really 21 don't need paintings, we need illustrations. 22 The other thing was we were not going to 23 be selecting an oil as the medium because it is 24 too hard to correct anything on a final. We have 25 had a lot of discussion within Committee about how 545 1 to do the bids. 2 We have not made our final form on size. 3 We are going to also have the same size picture, 4 but the animals will be proportioned. There are a 5 few things we need to decide that will allow it. 6 The idea is to have it not done in oil, and maybe 7 it will only be an illustration and not a 8 painting. We will certainly cover whatever we 9 have found in our mid-year report next year. We 10 may be searching for a while. 11 PRESIDENT SAUM: Senn. 12 DIRECTOR SENN: Just for clarification. 13 If we are going to authorize $500, and you say 14 that is to secure the bid and a deposit to the 15 illustrator, does that allow you to go into 16 negotiations for the price of what we are talking 17 about, the total price of what it will cost? 18 We are actually empowering you to 19 deposit $500 with a promise of additional funds to 20 cover the rest of it. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: Campbell. 22 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: That was my 23 question. But additionally, I am understanding 24 that the Committee is coming up with some plan to 25 sell these paintings, the existing paintings. 546 1 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: This was 2 discussed with the EC. When I got these 3 paintings, I didn't open them because I had no 4 secure place for me to keep them, and they stayed 5 in the office until I went home. 6 When I got home, I took them out and put 7 digital photos in front of the windows well lit 8 and sent them to the Committee members and the EC. 9 Because they really weren't what we had contracted 10 for, and they are beautiful work, I am not saying 11 they don't look like a goat. It was not what we 12 had in mind. 13 We had discussed with the EC and on 14 different e-mails amongst us what would be the 15 next step. We had discussed then searching out 16 another artist to do eight drawings or eight 17 paintings, or whatever you want to say, to replace 18 these, and then to sell these once we had work 19 underway and we were assured that we were going to 20 have what we really desired to replace. 21 That was discussed with the current EC 22 in the e-mail and the Committee. That was pretty 23 much the consensus view of anyone that implied 24 what the discussion was. That is where the 25 proposal has come from. That was the discussion 547 1 amongst the Committee and the EC at the time. 2 PRESIDENT SAUM: Any other discussion on 3 the motion? 4 Proctor. 5 DIRECTOR PROCTOR: What did the artist 6 copy from? Where did they get their model? Who 7 got that? 8 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: Regina, she was a 9 goat breeder at one time. This is way before I 10 was Chair of the Committee that this particular 11 thing got started. 12 DIRECTOR PROCTOR: Where did she get it 13 from? 14 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: I am not sure. I 15 think if anyone did assign it, it would be someone 16 with some sort of an animal illustration 17 background that would have an idea. I think we 18 can supplement examples of good animals for 19 somebody to look at, and if they understand what 20 we explain is correct about each individual 21 animal, they should be able to put it together. 22 DIRECTOR PROCTOR: We don't have a true 23 type picture of what we want now in the office? 24 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: No, we don't. 25 DIRECTOR PROCTOR: Okay. Thank you. 548 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bryan. 2 DIRECTOR BRYAN: The question was, will 3 we be publicizing the sale of these so that our 4 members have a chance to bid on them or something? 5 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: Yes, I believe we 6 would. It would not be done without quite a bit 7 of lead up to the actual sale. I have no idea if 8 they would be done like an online sale or 9 separately, or if it would be a silent bid thing, 10 how exactly that decision when the time comes to 11 be made by the Board. 12 I think that if we decide to sell them 13 they will sell for well in excess of what we paid 14 for them. How we go about selling them is not my 15 decision. They are the property of ADGA. 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 17 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: Going back to the 18 original point made by Laurie and Linda were 19 saying we are looking at some cost, total cost of 20 the project, and put a deposit. I would like to 21 see that when we get to that stage where a deposit 22 would be paid that it would be something by the 23 Executive Committee as to what would have to be 24 the total cost of the project. 25 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: I am not opposed 549 1 to that. They could put a maximum amount that we 2 could accept as the price per picture. Somebody 3 may say I will do them for $350 a picture times 4 eight, or I want $500 a picture. 5 I mean, I am willing to look at that. I 6 have no idea. I am not an artist. I have no idea 7 what people charge for those kinds of things. 8 This is a very preliminary thing for me to go out 9 and ask what they will charge to do this. If 10 anyone here has an idea or any idea what they 11 would cost, I might be willing to listen. 12 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: That is the point. 13 We don't know what the range is of prices for that 14 kind of work. So, if you are going to put a 15 deposit on that artist or illustrator that, yes, 16 we want you to do the work, and they give you a 17 price, at that point we need to have some 18 oversight as to whether that is acceptable. I 19 would add that if that is agreeable with you and 20 the Board for the EC to do that. 21 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: Yes, I feel that 22 is acceptable. I wouldn't want to put my name on 23 the line and commit ADGA to something that 24 everyone else is very unhappy about. 25 DIRECTOR NIXON: I just need to add that 550 1 there may be some creative ways to fund it. The 2 dairy cattle poster, the dairy breed was 3 commissioned from Bonnie Moore by Purina Mills to 4 celebrate their 100th Anniversary. 5 There is an original available and they 6 sell posters for $10 apiece. So there may be some 7 other creative ways of funding it as we get down 8 the road. You give the Committee guidelines on 9 the maximum amount and we may be able to find a 10 sponsor or someone to help us. 11 PRESIDENT SAUM: So we are back to the 12 motion to change the word "painting" to 13 "illustration", which gives a little broader 14 spectrum of what can be done. Before the final 15 bid is accepted, you will have the total dollars. 16 All those in favor of the motion, please 17 say "aye". 18 DIRECTOR FAIRCLOTH: A point of order. 19 That motion was never seconded. 20 PRESIDENT SAUM: The Chair accepted 21 adding EC on the final. All right. Are we all 22 clear? All those in favor will signify by saying 23 "aye". Any opposed? There are no "no" votes. 24 Any abstentions? There are no abstentions. The 25 motion carried. 551 1 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: One thing I would 2 like to say, and this wasn't really covered in the 3 year end report. We were asked by Type early in 4 the spring to come up with a true type Nigerian 5 for the appraisers to use as a guide. 6 We were able to do that in a very short 7 period of time with Ann Whitsell and Tom Rucker 8 working on it, and we sent some e-mails around for 9 the other type of people to put input in it, and 10 came up with a very acceptable thing in a very 11 short period of time. 12 So we have the right couple of people 13 working on a project, you know, especially if they 14 are familiar with the breed, were able to do it. 15 I want to thank them from the Committee and from 16 the ADGA folks getting that done. It was a very 17 short period of time to come up with that 18 rendition of the Nigerian Dwarf. 19 DIRECTOR RUCKER: I would like to take 20 credit, but my wife did it more than I did. I got 21 my two cents in, but it was primarily my wife that 22 did the work. 23 DIRECTOR KORHONEN: I love to talk big. 24 I would like us to give some guidance to the 25 Committee as to when that auction ought to be for 552 1 the sale of the oils that we currently possess. I 2 would suggest that next year's Spotlight Sale 3 would allow a year for the advertisement to our 4 people that these will be sold. 5 We can have pictures in the News & 6 Events and an awful lot of advertising of those 7 things. As the bottom line, I will be a bidder at 8 the auction. 9 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: I am sure if we 10 get an artist illustrator rapidly, we will want to 11 get new replacements, they could be auctioned next 12 year. I am kind of looking at maybe a couple of 13 years down the road. It depends on how fast they 14 move. 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: Campbell. 16 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: Like the last part, 17 looking a couple of years down the road, I know to 18 sell them from my perspective, we paid for the 19 rights to reproduce any way we may choose or 20 whatever, not just the true type. 21 Also, I would be remiss if I didn't say 22 on Regina's behalf, I think for the frustration 23 that was on her as well as with this process, I 24 think we should learn something from this, and a 25 couple of changes throughout the whole time. 553 1 It started off with some difficulties. 2 Whatever we can do to be specific, like an RSP, we 3 want specific guidelines that we should present 4 when we ask for a bid. Just for a quick example, 5 looking at the pictures she painted for us, in 6 looking at these, these are physically enhanced. 7 So those pictures could be taken with 8 the background drop and you will notice the bottom 9 of all this graph is there. That is a clip the 10 artist imposed on the picture. My understanding 11 in talking with Regina, we would have the right to 12 use those pictures in any way we want. 13 You might want to get that clarified. 14 That was my understanding in talking with her. 15 You can modify it before we decide we are not 16 going to use it for anything else, and we want 17 these to be sold. I think we need to give if a 18 little thought. 19 I want to publicly thank Regina for the 20 hard work. I think she has done outstanding work 21 and it is demonstrated in her paintings. 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: Thank you, Regina. 23 Berry. 24 DIRECTOR BERRY: Just by way of 25 explanation, she was given very clear instructions 554 1 on this. I love these. I intend to buy one of 2 the paintings myself, surprise, surprise. My 3 point is that she did not really fully understand. 4 We didn't want heads turned and we didn't want 5 positions that were all different from the side 6 profile. 7 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: My only comment, I 8 am a little concerned maybe from my standpoint. 9 Would the Committee consider taking a look at what 10 has been done in the industry, that they have 11 artists come up and actually solicit to determine 12 if there is an artist who has done the quality of 13 work on other species on what we are looking for 14 and actively solicit that artist in the bid? 15 To go out and say you can do this work 16 and you can do that, then we may not get this top 17 quality. We need to be proactive in soliciting of 18 bids. 19 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: I did say we want 20 to go far and wide for the illustrator. 21 DIRECTOR NIXON: These have not been 22 enhanced. This is because I stretched them. I 23 took them off Brian Moore's Web site, and I 24 stretched them from the Web site, and that is so 25 it was large enough for you to see. 555 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. 2 Rowe, did you have a question for 3 Hendrickson? 4 DIRECTOR ROWE: One quick question 5 regarding the photo program. I was wondering if 6 you had considered expanding the program beyond 7 the linear super lactation recognition to also 8 include animals with lifetime productions, meaning 9 they have a lifetime production, meaning 10, 20, 10 30, and setting some kind of recognition program 11 for that way. 12 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: The top 10 are in 13 there already for the lactate. Originally, the 14 Board directed to preserve photos, it was only the 15 top LA, GCH, and the top 10. We still are looking 16 and we will be having discussion with IM a little 17 bit more on how to get these up on the Web site. 18 Doug Thompson has pictures that have 19 been submitted, and we are still trying to get a 20 place to put them up. I don't want to expand a 21 whole lot on it until we start getting some of up 22 where people see them. 23 DIRECTOR ROWE: My comment is if we 24 intend to have a laboratory for animals that are 25 functional goals that capture the animals, we have 556 1 lifetime recognition, would be potential value for 2 the Registry. 3 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: I have no 4 objection including them, but I think it may be a 5 little later date. Just from the final 6 perspective, we want to get this so we have these 7 pictures for people to see them and expand it into 8 that category. Thank you. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: I see people standing 10 and visiting. Do you think we need a ten-minute 11 break? 12 DIRECTOR ROWE: I say five. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: It is 2:38 by my watch. 14 We will take a five-minute recess. 15 (RECESS.) 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: We have had a five- 17 minute break. We will go on to the next Committee 18 report, which is the Judges Committee report, 19 Charlotte Sankey. 20 REPORT OF JUDGES COMMITTEE 21 DIRECTOR SANKEY: We have covered a 22 little bit of the Judges Committee work yesterday. 23 There is not a whole lot more to say. That is the 24 complaints, other than that. We had an addendum. 25 One was dealt with yesterday and one other quick 557 1 addendum that the decision requires Board action. 2 This is to add in the Guidebook. This 3 comes about partly because it will help us in the 4 section of the Guidebook with continuity of a 5 complaint hearing and the enforcement procedure. 6 What you will be doing is a common wording, and 7 this is listed on Page 107. That is the current 8 wording. 9 "Said notice shall be mailed at least 30 10 days prior to said hearing." I would like to add 11 the following wording to the end: "by certified 12 mail and return receipt required." The new 13 wording would say, "Said notice shall be mailed at 14 least 30 days prior to the said hearing by 15 certified mail, a return receipt signed by the 16 investigated is required." 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: Linda Campbell. 18 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: My question is, I 19 have a case to worry about this year. People 20 simply don't sign when they receive them. If we 21 are asking that it be required, what happens if it 22 is not returned to us, the receipt is not returned 23 to us? 24 PRESIDENT SAUM: I can address that a 25 little bit. Well, two issues is, one, that the 558 1 post office should have a tracking number and you 2 can check on it. After 14 days, if the person 3 does not sign it or pick it up, it is returned to 4 you. If the person doesn't want to sign it, it is 5 also returned to you. 6 There is a tracking in there. If you 7 don't get the receipt, you can go online and find 8 out if they signed for it, and when they have, but 9 you won't have the actual signature that got lost 10 in the mail on the way back. 11 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: They could choose 12 not to pick it up at all and ignore it. I am 13 asking, you know, where does that put us? We are 14 requiring a receipt before we can take any other 15 action. 16 Am I reading this correctly? I know it 17 says that a person simply did not pick up theirs 18 and it was not returned as being received. So, if 19 I read this, that almost prohibits us from doing 20 it if they didn't return the receipt. 21 DIRECTOR SANKEY: Well, I took the 22 statement from the other section of the Guidebook. 23 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 24 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: Should we be 25 looking at the procedure where you get 559 1 confirmation and deliverance on that? Of course, 2 that is added to it, and that is a $4 fee. 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: This comes to your 4 mailbox, and you see it is from ADGA, the 5 Complaint Committee Chair, and you are not going 6 to sign for it, how is it that you were informed 7 of it? 8 If we sent this in there and you don't 9 check your mail and you choose not to do it, then 10 what is our recourse? Is it saying they have to 11 get it that way now? 12 Lawson. 13 DIRECTOR LAWSON: I believe as long as 14 you send it by certified mail you have done 15 everything that you need to do legally to notify 16 that person. It is up to them if they don't want 17 to pick it up or not. 18 You don't have notification or you have 19 proof that you mailed it to them, because you sent 20 it by certified mail. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: Caroline, you are 22 saying if they choose not to pick it up and it 23 comes back to you after delivery three times, that 24 covers us, that we have done that? 25 DIRECTOR LAWSON: Exactly. 560 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: Hendrickson. 2 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: I think that if 3 we ask that if it gets returned to us, we would 4 attempt to send it a second or third time. But 5 after that, the amount of time, the judge's 6 license would be in a state of suspension until 7 they replied. 8 Somebody could be gone for a couple of 9 weeks, and possibly that they are not there to 10 pick it up within 14 days, and it would get 11 returned to you as the sender. If you send it out 12 the second time, you cover another 14, or possibly 13 more time to send it back and forth. 14 They certainly ought to have received it 15 at least within a month's time. If they refuse a 16 second or third time, I think that you could just 17 add something on here, I mean, to make it a little 18 more serious if they don't send it back. 19 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: The actual language 20 of the Guidebook was requested, and that is 21 required. If we do the requested, we are all 22 right. 23 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rucker. 24 DIRECTOR RUCKER: This notice shall be 25 mailed at least 30 days prior to the said hearing 561 1 by certified mail, return receipt requested. 2 PRESIDENT SAUM: I was trying to write 3 that down. 4 DIRECTOR RUCKER: After certified mail, 5 put "return receipt requested" all in one 6 sentence. "Said notice shall be mailed at least 7 30 days prior to said hearing by certified mail, 8 return receipt requested." 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: Is the Chair agreeable 10 with that change? 11 DIRECTOR SANKEY: Sure. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: All right. 13 Berry. 14 DIRECTOR BERRY: Well, I just want for 15 safety sake for there to be a check on the 16 address, because sometimes addresses don't get 17 changed in a timely fashion and some people move 18 frequently. 19 I don't know why this happens, but after 20 something happened this year that made me think 21 about it. My last paycheck from ADGA for linear 22 went to a closed account in Idaho. I kept 23 wondering why I wasn't paid. 24 Finally, I got a thing from the bank in 25 Idaho who about a month later said there had been 562 1 a very large deposit made to that closed account 2 in Idaho. It is things like that that happen. It 3 was my fault I didn't say anything, you know. But 4 things like this happen. 5 So because sometimes people move, I 6 think you need to make sure that if you send it to 7 an address and it is returned, you don't assume 8 they have moved or something may have happened. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: A good point. 10 DIRECTOR SANKEY: I am sure the post 11 office has that, if I send it certified, so that 12 if it does come back, and you find out these 13 things, which is just other than sending it 14 regular mail. 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: Any further comments? 16 Bitter. 17 DIRECTOR BITTER: On this procedure, 18 back in my banking days, we sent it not only 19 certified, return receipt requested, we also sent 20 a second one regular mail, and that was noted on 21 both of them. If they did not accept the return 22 receipt requested, in other words, if the other 23 one didn't come back we knew they got it. 24 PRESIDENT SAUM: That is a good point. 25 We are back to the motion. All in favor of adding 563 1 this wording to the Guidebook please signify by 2 saying "aye"; any opposed? There is a "no" vote 3 from Proctor. Any other opposed? Any 4 abstentions? No abstentions. The motion passed. 5 DIRECTOR RUCKER: As someone who did use 6 the complaint process this past year, I think it 7 is imperative that when a resolution is reached 8 that the complainant be notified. It took me 9 quite a bit of effort to find out what happened 10 with the complaint that I filed. 11 I think it would only be appropriate to 12 make sure that the complainant received a copy of 13 the resolution, and if that is a letter, so be it. 14 If someone has taken the time to write out a 15 thoughtful well-written complaint, the least they 16 deserve is a written response of what happened. 17 DIRECTOR SANKEY: I believe you did get 18 one when it was brought to my attention. Do you 19 have that? You did not get something from me? 20 DIRECTOR RUCKER: I finally got an e- 21 mail telling me that you were sending a letter of 22 concern. That was several months after the fact. 23 That is all I ever received. 24 DIRECTOR SANKEY: This is a lengthy 25 process. It takes up to two months or more for 564 1 the time frame. There is no guideline what the 2 Committee has to supply back with comments, and 3 there are no guidelines or time frames. 4 In some instances, it may be shorter or 5 longer than others. I apologize for the length of 6 time it took for you to get that. 7 DIRECTOR RUCKER: I am asking for 8 details to be provided. I am asking for a copy of 9 the letter of concern that was sent to the judge. 10 PRESIDENT SAUM: Daniel, do you have a 11 comment? 12 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: The details 13 that would probably need to be addressed by the 14 Chairman of the Committee might be something that 15 you want to circulate. I realize that the 16 complainant knows about the details, but if a 17 letter of concern, then I think that the judge 18 should be able to significantly know by a letter 19 that was supposed to be a real big deal. I am not 20 sure that it is a good idea to have the 21 complainant provided with the material. 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: Lawson. 23 DIRECTOR LAWSON: It is probably easy 24 enough to do a form letter that simply states that 25 it has been discussed and it has been resolved, 565 1 and a letter of concern has been issued to the 2 party without giving the specifics. That could be 3 sent to the person filing the complaint so they 4 know it has been handled. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: He is asking for an 6 actual copy of the letter. 7 DIRECTOR LAWSON: I understand. It 8 might work is the point. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rucker. 10 DIRECTOR RUCKER: As a follow-up to 11 Daniel, I mean if you want to worry about the 12 judges, I have got the letter I wrote. I could 13 rightly publicize what my concerns would be. I 14 know that the letter is a little more official 15 than my actual complaint. 16 The problem I had with the process was 17 my complaint was filed in October, I believe, and 18 it was a September show, so I believe it was in 19 October that I filed the complaint. After having 20 to ask for the status, I found out that in April 21 what happened with the complaint. That is quite 22 an extended period of time. 23 The judge is provided with a copy of 24 what I said. I have no idea what the judge said. 25 They give their response and any supporting 566 1 documents, and then it goes away. You are not 2 notified if there was or was not a hearing. 3 It seems to me like even though I spent 4 a lot of time and effort writing the complaint, 5 that it was not -- I don't want to say not taken 6 seriously, but it wasn't acknowledged. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: We are asking for 8 direction from the Chair about the complaining 9 party getting a copy of the resolution, that the 10 complainant get a copy of the letter. 11 Lawson. 12 DIRECTOR LAWSON: You might also want to 13 look at time frames that could be put in place. I 14 know when we receive complaints at the university, 15 there is even an open records requirement and as a 16 result time frames that have to be dealt with. 17 If we receive something in-house, we 18 have ten days to respond to it, even if that is 19 just a confirmation that you received it. I think 20 that the people filing the complaint certainly 21 would be quite comfortable knowing that their 22 complaint had been received and it was before the 23 Board. 24 PRESIDENT SAUM: I think it was October, 25 the time of the year I believe the Chair had 30 567 1 days to mail it out to the person complaining and 2 30 days to respond. You have 60 days if you mail 3 it out the day you got it. It goes to the 4 Committee, and they have another 30 days. We are 5 at three months. Now, it is a lengthy process, 6 very lengthy. 7 Strickland. 8 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: I think that maybe 9 what might be agreeable here is that the Committee 10 might look at whether or not the person that filed 11 the original complaint would get a copy of the 12 judge's response, not necessarily a letter of 13 concern that was written from the Committee. 14 This complainant can see what the judge 15 is saying as the judge is entitled to see what the 16 complainant wrote. 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: I think that is a 18 direction for the Committee for next year. Is 19 that a direction for the Committee to look at the 20 policy of how when a judge's letter is received 21 back, if that should be available to the person 22 who is originally complaining? 23 DIRECTOR SANKEY: If you want us to work 24 on that and bring it back to the Board, we can. 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: A recommendation 568 1 whether or not that should happen and the 2 rationale, one way or the other. Anything else 3 for Charlotte. Okay. Thank you, Charlotte. 4 Linear has requested to go tomorrow. 5 The Long-Range Committee requested to go tomorrow. 6 That brings us to Membership. Bonnie is going to 7 do Membership. She is also going to do 8 Scholarship. 9 DIRECTOR KEMPE: Can I do Scholarship 10 first and then Membership? 11 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bonnie wants to do 12 Scholarship and then Membership. 13 REPORT OF SCHOLARSHIPS COMMITTEE 14 DIRECTOR KEMPE: This was faxed to me 15 yesterday from her office in Pittsburgh. This is 16 No. 5, Decisions requiring Board action. But when 17 I read it, I don't know if we need Board action on 18 it. She wants to change the scoring on how FFA is 19 looked at by the judges. I don't think that 20 should be a problem. 21 Also, you will note on the number of 22 scholarships that went out, there were some extras 23 this year. We received some money from an 24 anonymous source. She is the only one who knows 25 who it is. 569 1 We divided it two ways, $750 each. I 2 don't know if it will happen every year, but it 3 did this year. 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: Do you have any 5 comments for Bonnie on the scholarships? 6 Okay. We will move to Membership, then. 7 REPORT OF MEMBERSHIP COMMITTEE 8 DIRECTOR KEMPE: Okay. Before we get 9 into this, all of these are her fault. I got e- 10 mails telling me what to do except for the first 11 one. The first one was a directive from last 12 year's Board to go through the Guidebook and 13 change all the references from "junior" members to 14 "youth" members. 15 I believe it was Pat Faucett that first 16 brought it to our attention there were some fairs 17 out there that used the word "junior" when they 18 mean "youth". When somebody looks at it, they 19 thought they were thinking about four-legged 20 goats. 21 I didn't believe that happened until I 22 went to a show a couple of weeks ago and that is 23 exactly how it was written. They said "junior", 24 and they mean "youth". Everybody thought they 25 meant kids. 570 1 So I went through the book with some 2 help, and we found all the page references, and in 3 one was the essay written by Vivian some years 4 ago, and we asked her permission to change the 5 word to youth, and she granted us that permission. 6 PRESIDENT SAUM: You have the decision 7 requiring Board action, which is changing "junior" 8 members to "youth" members. She has listed the 9 pages there. She has given you those. Any 10 discussion on that motion? All in favor will say 11 "aye". Any opposed? No opposed. Any 12 abstentions? No abstentions. The motion passed. 13 DIRECTOR KEMPE: No. 2, no matter how 14 hard we tried the Committee could not come up with 15 guidelines for this. So what we finally decided 16 was pass the buck. We would like to create a 17 Subcommittee of maybe two or three people for the 18 purpose of dealing with the look alike/sound alike 19 herd name problems that the office cannot resolve 20 or handle. that the Subcommittee will. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: Just for clarification, 22 you are asking that the Subcommittee be a 23 Committee that -- 24 DIRECTOR KEMPE: You will appoint the 25 Subcommittee that will handle this. 571 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: I have got it. 2 DIRECTOR BITTER: I call for the 3 question. 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: The question has been 5 called for by Allen. All those in favor will say 6 "aye"; all those opposed "no". There is a no vote 7 from Considine, no for Campbell. Two no votes. 8 Any abstentions? No abstentions. The motion 9 passed. 10 DIRECTOR KEMPE: No. 3 was a repeat of 11 what we decided last year, but we were asked to do 12 it again. That was to resume selling the 13 membership directory to non-members. You can see 14 the Committee's response was eight yes, three no. 15 They have no problem with it. 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: Any discussion on that? 17 Berry. 18 DIRECTOR BERRY: I would speak against 19 this motion. I really feel that this is 20 information that should not be just arbitrarily 21 sold and passed out. I think there are some 22 assumptions as to the Privacy Act. I would be 23 against doing this. 24 PRESIDENT SAUM: Senn. 25 DIRECTOR SENN: I would say that is like 572 1 telling the world, and I don't know how far that 2 would go. 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rucker. 4 DIRECTOR RUCKER: Anybody that can pay 5 $35 and become a member can get it anyway. 6 PRESIDENT SAUM: Faircloth. 7 DIRECTOR FAIRCLOTH: I just have a 8 question. We don't sell directories here at the 9 convention? I mean, anybody can walk in there and 10 buy one for a couple of dollars. Why are we doing 11 this when you can't enforce it? 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Hendrickson. 13 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: I know the 14 discussion among the Committee was that there is 15 more than one way to get your membership list. 16 The directory is the hard copy. One of our 17 members had, was giving it to a business to use as 18 a mailing list. It is not like it is a secret 19 list. It is out there. The Committee was there. 20 They could get the information that was in there 21 besides buying one. 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 23 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: I think that the 24 Association should not condone those things, and 25 that is the dissemination in a way that may be 573 1 harmful. But I have opposition to this one as 2 well. 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: Anybody want to speak 4 in favor of the motion? 5 Backus, are you in favor of the motion? 6 DIRECTOR BACKUS: I have a question. 7 Has it been discussed that members be allowed to 8 withdraw their name and membership number and no 9 other address in the directory? 10 PRESIDENT SAUM: No. In our 11 Constitution, it states they have to have a 12 membership list. I don't know whether it says the 13 address. That is something the Membership 14 Committee can look at next year, though. 15 Anyone want to speak in favor of sending 16 out the membership list? 17 Lawson. 18 DIRECTOR LAWSON: Really, the 19 Association that I belong to publish their 20 membership list online. So this is no different. 21 It is like someone said, it is merely publishing 22 it in hard copy. I see nothing wrong with doing 23 that and making the Association money. 24 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bryan. 25 DIRECTOR BRYAN: Constitutional, Page 3, 574 1 Section 4, says that the secretary/treasurer shall 2 compile a complete list of members and shall mail 3 a copy to each member. It does not specify 4 addresses. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: Proctor. 6 DIRECTOR PROCTOR: I say put a price on 7 it and if they want it, they will pay it. It 8 doesn't matter. They will pay more for it than a 9 membership. Some people are not familiar with us 10 and some of them asked Charlotte for one last 11 week. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: ADGA will take the 13 other $38. 14 DIRECTOR PROCTOR: Well, good. 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: That is something we 16 can consider. It only costs a few dollars to 17 print it. That is a good question, Vivian. 18 Do you know the price of printing the 19 membership directory, Shirley? 20 OFFICE MANAGER McKENZIE: We charge for 21 it now. 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: Do you know what it 23 costs, Shirley? 24 OFFICE MANAGER McKENZIE: No. 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. Any more 575 1 questions on this? No. 3 is selling the 2 membership directory to non-members. All those in 3 favor of the motion, please say "aye"; opposed 4 "no". Any abstentions? No abstentions. How 5 about the no votes. Campbell, Altheide, Korhonen, 6 Burks, Pete Snyder, Helen Snyder, Patti Dean, 7 Karen Senn, Joan Rowe, June Bryan, Rex Backus, 8 Shari Reyna, Chris Strickland and Marsha 9 Gustafson. That is 14 nays. There are 15 yes 10 votes. The motion passes. 11 Considine. 12 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: This would 13 be the time to consider what the price should be 14 for this. I agree that it makes sense to make it 15 higher than for our members. If they send this 16 list to a list of people, it should be more than 17 $5. I move that they raise the price on this to 18 sell to non-members to be $30. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: Is there a second to 20 Daniel's motion? 21 DIRECTOR LAWSON: I second it. 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: Lawson seconds it to 23 raising the fee of the membership directory to 24 non-members to be $30. Any discussion on that? 25 Rucker. 576 1 DIRECTOR RUCKER: Through our 2 convention, we are going to verify that they are 3 members before we sell it for $5? 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: If you are a member in 5 good standing, you can look in the book and tell. 6 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I call for the 7 question. 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: The question has been 9 called for raising the fee for the membership 10 directory to non-members to be $30. All in favor 11 will say "aye"; all opposed "no". There are no 12 "no" votes. Any abstentions? No abstentions. 13 The motion carried. 14 We will do No. 4. 15 DIRECTOR KEMPE: This was suggested by 16 Mr. John Ruth, that the new membership/renewal 17 forms will have the following statement: "I verify 18 that the information submitted is correct. I 19 understand that misrepresentation will cause the 20 forfeit of my membership." 21 A signature will be required, and if the 22 membership/renewal form is submitted online, the 23 same statement would apply with a check-off box 24 added instead of signature. 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: Any discussion on that 577 1 motion? 2 DIRECTOR FAIRCLOTH: I call for the 3 question. 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: Faircloth has called 5 for the question. All those in favor will say 6 "aye". Any "no" votes? There are no "no" votes. 7 Abstentions? No abstentions. The motion passed. 8 DIRECTOR KEMPE: No. 5, "Only regular 9 members over the age of 18 are eligible to vote in 10 any primary, general election, or change in the 11 ADGA Constitution. Eligible members must have 12 resided in the District for six months. This 13 would be added to Page 134 of the 2005 Guidebook 14 under II, Voter Eligibility, No. 2 f. and g. A 15 line will be added to the membership/renewal 16 application indicating if the applicant is over 17 the age of 18." 18 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: Do you want it 19 over the age of 18 or 18 and over? I seems to me 20 they are not the same. 21 DIRECTOR KEMPE: They are not. I think 22 we meant 18 and over. 23 PRESIDENT SAUM: Do you want to make 24 that change, and it has been accepted by the Chair 25 only regular members 18 or over. 578 1 Morris. 2 DIRECTOR MORRIS: What is the cut-off 3 date for that? Is that January 1st? What is your 4 thought process on that? 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: Would you like to make 6 a recommendation or an amendment to the motion? 7 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I would like to 8 recommend that we have verbiage as of March 1st. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: Is there a second to 10 that? 11 DIRECTOR FAIRCLOTH: I second it. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: We can discuss it. 13 Only regular members 18 or over as of March 1st of 14 the current year. 15 Considine. 16 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: I realize 17 why we are looking at this, and I do understand 18 that people feel there has been some abuse of 19 membership owned by young people. I am against 20 this motion, and I did seek advice from my 21 District on it. 22 More people felt if the person was under 23 18 felt strongly enough about the issue to poll 24 the whole membership, that that person would 25 probably be a better-informed voter than would 579 1 many of our members. 2 In addition, I think that the problem is 3 some technical problems here, one being the 4 difficulty of the office renewing the membership. 5 I actually believe that this is against the 6 Constitution. You may not agree with that. 7 On these three, which is clearly 8 Constitutional, and four, the wording is to mail a 9 copy to each member, it is my belief that we go a 10 little further and say mail each member a primary 11 ballot. We again are not qualifying members 12 there. You may feel that is adequate, and I don't 13 think we should pass it. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: Reyna. 15 DIRECTOR REYNA: I found this on the 16 Web, and it was a statement that was in the 17 present e-mail. But I was concerned about the 18 economic impact. If someone would say to you, buy 19 a membership for their one-year-old child, then 20 there has been 25 years of membership, and how 21 many Life Members can we afford? 22 It is something that I am not objecting 23 to, but I think we have to think about the 24 economic impact. 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rowe. 580 1 DIRECTOR ROWE: Two things. I concur 2 with Daniel's statement regarding the active youth 3 member. Unless I missed something, this would be 4 the first time we have incorporated a minimum 5 residency requirement living in the District. 6 I object to that for two reasons. One 7 is if I move to a new District and I have been a 8 continuous member, I feel like I have a right to 9 vote. How will we police that policy? I speak 10 against the motion. 11 PRESIDENT SAUM: Petersen. 12 DIRECTOR PETERSEN: That says that 13 person who moves, they are no longer eligible to 14 vote in their old District because they don't 15 reside there. Yet they can't vote in their new 16 District because they didn't count far enough back 17 as to when to move. 18 PRESIDENT SAUM: Altheide. 19 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: Linda refused to 20 pass it, so I will have to stand up. Anyway, as 21 was just pointed out, I see this as two separate 22 issues. There is over 18, which the feeling is 23 that District IV was divided on, and those that I 24 contacted, it is roughly 50-50, those that 25 contacted me. 581 1 On the other side of the question, which 2 is moving and having to live in the District six 3 months, it was clear that that was not popular. 4 They did not feel simply moving would cause them 5 to lose their vote. 6 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: The question I have 7 goes back to the practicality of the person being 8 in place. You have a membership, a regular 9 membership log, and in a hurricane that is going 10 by, a member or individual who is not 18, are we 11 saying that we now need to verify the ages of the 12 members who are not an individual member? 13 It does not state here, and we are a 14 little concerned about what exactly it is. I 15 certainly do agree that I believe that there are 16 two different issues, because I would certainly 17 not in any way approve of the residency, because 18 if you count out from the body that you pay to 19 move before March 1st into the directory, and you 20 will go out six months and you are well beyond the 21 amount of time that you can mail the ballot. 22 It is a problem with this. I don't see 23 a non-member on the application that we are having 24 the information. I see problems with it, not that 25 I disagree with this, because I am one of the 582 1 people that believes this should be made for 2 voting, this proposal. 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: Anyone want to speak in 4 favor of the proposal? 5 Berry. 6 DIRECTOR BERRY: Yes. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Berry. 8 DIRECTOR BERRY: I am in favor of the 9 age determination, because I think that if you say 10 youth members -- I will stop. If you say that the 11 people under 18 can vote, then what is your age 12 limit? Can a two-year old vote? Can a five-year 13 old vote? Can a six-year old vote? 14 Someone is going to be instructing those 15 young members how to vote. You buy ten membership 16 and they can vote? I really think that you have 17 to have some distinction between adults and 18 children in the voting membership. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bitter. 20 DIRECTOR BITTER: Can we ask the 21 Chairman to divide the two parts? 22 DIRECTOR KEMPE: Yes. 23 PRESIDENT SAUM: The Chair says she is 24 agreeable to that. We will stop after the first 25 sentence. We are talking about only regular 583 1 members 18 or over after March 1st of the current 2 year are eligible to vote in the primary and 3 general election, or changes in the ADGA 4 Constitution. 5 DIRECTOR BACKUS: If the impression is 6 that these should only be adult persons, we should 7 specify that. 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: Lawson. 9 DIRECTOR LAWSON: I think the real 10 problem lies in the fact that you allow anybody of 11 any age to buy a membership. You really need to, 12 and I know this is probably a pain to do this, but 13 if might be something to look at. 14 The junior members are members under the 15 age of 18. Senior members are members 18 and 16 over. Therein lies the problem, because they are 17 in 4-H. But in the Horse Show Association, at 18 least there is a very distinct age difference 19 between your membership. If that could be 20 addressed and followed somehow, then the rest of 21 it would follow along. 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: Are you giving 23 direction to the Committee to look at the 24 membership categories they have and make a 25 distinction? 584 1 DIRECTOR LAWSON: I think that would be 2 a good idea. I think there is yet another thing 3 that might be made in lifetime memberships, and 4 that we might be able to sell lifetime memberships 5 as we will acquire lifetime memberships. 6 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bryan. 7 DIRECTOR BRYAN: If we are going to 8 revise this, do we need not to include the last 9 line, a line will be added to the membership new 10 application indicating that the applicant is over 11 the age of 18? 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Yes. 13 Mellett. 14 DIRECTOR MELLETT: I still think this is 15 the first time when you look at the issue of 16 regular membership that my son's membership is for 17 four years, which is a 4-H youth, who was under 18 the age of 18. 19 If you look at that in that sense, if 20 for not my membership, I would not be eligible to 21 vote on the fact that he was under the membership? 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: That is a good 23 question. I asked her that and she is not sure. 24 It depends on what is checked on the box. That is 25 not the right answer, but in a short order it was. 585 1 Weaver. 2 DIRECTOR WEAVER: I don't see how the 3 age limit would affect the 4-H or FFA status. 4 That is, they are junior or senior members of our 5 Association and still qualify for 4-H and FFA 6 activities. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 8 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: My comment was 9 relevant to that. In the past, we had changed the 10 age of the junior membership up to 21 because of 11 that. That is where we made that distinction. 12 The other major distinction there is that the 13 membership is a non-voting membership, and that is 14 received. 15 If we look at the directory, we have a 16 huge number, and we can see in every District, the 17 numbers of the members. They are all non-voting 18 members. It would seem that the youth was pretty 19 active, they would require a regular membership. 20 PRESIDENT SAUM: Anyone want to speak in 21 favor of the motion now that it is broken out? I 22 am not hearing anybody. Do you want to go ahead 23 and vote on it? Do you want me to read it, or are 24 you straight on it? I will read it. 25 "Only regular members 18 or over as of 586 1 March 1st of the current year are eligible to vote 2 in any primary, general election or changes in the 3 ADGA Constitution. A line will be added to the 4 membership renewal application indicating if the 5 applicant is over the age of 18." 6 All those in favor, please say "aye"; 7 those opposed "no". Any abstentions? Let's count 8 the "yes" votes. Bitter, Hendrickson, Weaver, 9 Lawson, Reyna. We have five "yes" votes. 10 The second part of that motion is, 11 "Eligible members must have resided in the 12 District for six months." We will have to change 13 the wording, because we have got away from the 14 first sentence. 15 If you live in the District for six 16 months to vote in that District, anyone want to 17 speak in favor of that? All those in favor will 18 say "aye"; all those opposed "no". Any 19 abstentions? There are no abstentions and no 20 "yes" votes. The motion failed. 21 DIRECTOR KEMPE: No. 6, "To publish a 22 mailing address in the Membership Directory but 23 require a physical address also for office use 24 only if it is different from the mailing address. 25 Add a line on the membership/renewal form for a 587 1 second address." 2 PRESIDENT SAUM: Callahan. 3 DIRECTOR CALLAHAN: Would both of these 4 addresses be published in the Membership 5 Directory? 6 PRESIDENT SAUM: No, only the mailing 7 address would be, but the ROSS system would store 8 both addresses in the box, and you can pick which 9 one you want to have mail sent to. First it would 10 be recorded in the roster. 11 I don't hear any discussion on that. 12 Are we ready to vote on No. 6, "Publish a mailing 13 address in the Membership Directory but require a 14 physical address also for office use only if it is 15 different from the mailing address. Add a line on 16 the membership/renewal form for a second address"? 17 Did you have a question? Campbell. 18 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I was just trying to 19 visualize the space that is occupied when the 20 printing on the staff level. 21 Is that page, Shirley, that will require 22 three more lines, is that a visual issue? 23 OFFICE MANAGER McKENZIE: No. 24 PRESIDENT SAUM: Proctor. 25 DIRECTOR PROCTOR: Are you talking like 588 1 an address on the street, and what that would do 2 with your P.O. Box? You said you want a physical 3 one. You have a P.O. Box, and you want a physical 4 one? 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: Yes. All those in 6 favor of the motion, please say "aye"; any 7 opposed? I need the "no" votes. Backus says no. 8 One no vote. Any abstentions? No abstentions. 9 The motion passed. 10 DIRECTOR KEMPE: No. 7, "Add to the 11 second paragraph on Page 127 of the 2005 12 Guidebook, under Authorized Signatures the 13 following: 'Signature cards are to be used for the 14 purpose of signing registrations and transfers. 15 They may be used to vote the ballot of a 16 corporation, association, business, family, or 17 partnership, but not an individual's ballot.'" 18 PRESIDENT SAUM: Considine. 19 DIRECTOR DANIEL CONSIDINE: I don't see 20 that on this one, either. I think a signature 21 card should be here for whatever reason. It would 22 be there for family members. Typically that is 23 where we see them, are appropriate for family 24 members who may not be in the country or available 25 easily at the time of the balloting to college 589 1 students or in service, traveling. 2 I understand why we are trying to do 3 this because we are concerned about this election. 4 I really think that we don't have that many people 5 that are going to cheat trying to create confusion 6 in that election system. 7 Most people that serve as a Director 8 think this is important, and I don't think we 9 should disenfranchise those people where someone 10 cannot vote at the time. 11 PRESIDENT SAUM: For a little 12 background, that has been brought up this year 13 obviously when different things were going on. 14 They came up that we find they sign a signature 15 card. 16 What does that mean? That is basically 17 clarifying that. The office got several 18 questions, and EC got several questions. If I 19 have a signature card on file, what rights does 20 that give me? 21 The membership right was one of them. 22 That is just for background. Any other comment or 23 question on this? 24 Lawson. 25 DIRECTOR LAWSON: The only comment I 590 1 have, it might be more clear if it reads "but not 2 another individual's ballot." 3 PRESIDENT SAUM: Any questions? 4 Senn. 5 DIRECTOR SENN: Do we currently accept 6 someone else's signature on any ballot anyway? 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: We don't have a policy 8 one way or the other. 9 Lawson. 10 DIRECTOR LAWSON: Or it could read but 11 not the ballot of another individual. That is 12 just to clarify that they would be voting somebody 13 else's ballot other than their own. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: This is at the point, 15 unless somebody wants to amend it. 16 That is an amendment to that, Caroline, 17 if you would like to? 18 DIRECTOR LAWSON: No. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bitter. 20 DIRECTOR BITTER: I don't know if this 21 is going to affect someone that is ethical and do 22 things right. What problem have we had, or 23 perceptions as a problem when it was a 24 considerable number of memberships being purchased 25 for the purpose of voting and they had all sorts 591 1 of business names and used signature cards to 2 indicate who was voting? 3 Actually, I kind of think that it should 4 follow No. 8 in the logical way of thinking. That 5 really doesn't make much sense to deal with this 6 one before we deal with No. 8. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Just to follow up to 8 that, Allen. You are right. It depends on what 9 you are talking about. Some of it came from the 10 others that have continued to vote. The question 11 came up, do you have signature cards and their 12 name on that signature card, and what name was on 13 the ballot? 14 If they had a signature card from the 15 individual membership, that it had a signature 16 card that is in the office and that person signed 17 it, then maybe that was a valid vote. That is the 18 other side of that. 19 Senn. 20 DIRECTOR SENN: I think it might be 21 defined some more where we are in favor of this if 22 we consider providing it as an absentee ballot, 23 who is someone that has fallen in the situation 24 that Dan addressed, the absentee vote, and send it 25 in if they are on the road or out of the country 592 1 at a certain time. 2 PRESIDENT SAUM: I think if you inform 3 the ADGA office, they will mail your ballot 4 wherever you are. We have to be somehow notified 5 that you need a ballot somewhere else. 6 DIRECTOR SENN: An absentee ballot, it 7 states the general election, you end up requesting 8 it ahead of time, and you return it, and that one 9 ballot comes to that specific address. For those 10 people who are traveling like we say to National 11 Shows or somebody going to be traveling in a 12 business situation, if they had to be done by a 13 certain time, the absentee ballot had to be turned 14 in and provided, you would be able to vote without 15 having to -- 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: There are specified 17 limits that you have when you are mailing a ballot 18 out. Like in an election in our government, you 19 need to get one early. In this we have specific 20 time frames that she has to mail it out. 21 Bitter. 22 DIRECTOR BITTER: That would be kind of 23 covered under No. 6. If someone has a mailing 24 address of Baghdad and the physical address is in 25 Wisconsin, we could mail the ballot to Baghdad and 593 1 they could attempt to send it back. 2 PRESIDENT SAUM: A good point. 3 Lawson. 4 DIRECTOR LAWSON: I can speak to this. 5 I had a vote in my District that was mailed from 6 the Sinai Desert in Egypt. Her mother sent it to 7 her on military duty over there. She sent it back 8 to me, to ADGA. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rucker. 10 DIRECTOR RUCKER: I know you have no 11 policy on the voting. For instance, if I have a 12 signature on Joanie's membership -- 13 DIRECTOR ROWE: That will never happen. 14 (Laughter) 15 DIRECTOR RUCKER: -- and I get her 16 ballot and sign my name to it, is that valid to be 17 counted? 18 PRESIDENT SAUM: Today, I would say the 19 answer is yes. Okay. I have not seen any more 20 discussion. We are voting on No. 7. Do you want 21 me to read it or are you all set with that? Are 22 there any changes in the way it is printed there 23 in front of you? 24 All those in favor will say "aye"; all 25 those opposed "no". Any abstentions? No 594 1 abstentions. The yes votes, please. Altheide, 2 Korhonen, Petersen, Helen Snyder, Patti Dean, 3 Sankey, Mellett, Bitter, Hendrickson, Weaver, 4 Backus, Morris, Reyna, Strickland, Gustafson, 5 Proctor, Cassette, Saum and Kempe. There were 19 6 yes votes. The motion carried. 7 We are on to No. 8, one vote one person. 8 DIRECTOR KEMPE: This is going to be 9 fun. "If you are part of many memberships 10 (partnership, joint, family, individual, et 11 cetera), you may use only one to cast your vote in 12 a primary, general election, or change to the ADGA 13 Constitution." That is whatever you want. 14 DIRECTOR BERRY: I think you may want to 15 change the word "many" to "multiple". 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: Is that okay with the 17 Chair to change "many" to "multiple"? 18 DIRECTOR KEMPE: Yes. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: Altheide. 20 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: Well, I look at it a 21 little differently. Constitutionally, we define a 22 wide range of types of memberships that we have. 23 In the United States or in your state, a vote is 24 not purchased, it is granted to you unless you are 25 a felon. It is based on birth. 595 1 In our Association, votes are based upon 2 membership. Constitutionally, we have a wide 3 range of types of memberships, and I don't think 4 that we can put a change in the Bylaws that 5 affects the rights of members that are 6 constitutionally authorized to vote. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Reyna. 8 DIRECTOR REYNA: My concern is that I 9 think it is virtually unenforceable. Chris and I 10 sat down and tried to figure out a thousand ways 11 how this could be tracked in the system that we 12 know about, and there is a loophole everywhere. 13 I also submit that this really is what 14 has been focused on, but I think that is one of 15 those things you focused on this to avoid the real 16 problem. This is not the real problem. The real 17 problem is blocks of membership where each person 18 actually has a membership. 19 They may not have it with the cousin or 20 nephew, but they are legitimate and they vote, and 21 there is no way we can deal with that. Here we 22 are worrying about our own members. This isn't 23 the problem. It is perceived as something that is 24 easier to follow. I don't think it is 25 enforceable. 596 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: Does anybody want to 2 speak in favor of No. 8? 3 Bitter, do you want to speak in favor? 4 DIRECTOR BITTER: It may not be 5 enforceable, but it also sends a message. 6 PRESIDENT SAUM: Let's go ahead and 7 vote, then. 8 Cassette. 9 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: I guess, once again, 10 I don't have a problem with what is here, I just 11 don't believe it can be implemented. The issue is 12 how you get there. There are ways, and an e-mail 13 is a possibility of identifying who is the 14 responsible party for voting. 15 The membership application specifies the 16 person who is eligible to vote, and the only one 17 that can holds it, but that is not before us. I 18 am not quite sure how we can do this. I think 19 that we can deal with this, but I think if people 20 take this approach more work is to be put together 21 than what has taken place so we understand. 22 It goes back to that any form other than 23 an individual who identifies the person who is 24 responsible, to use that same logic here, and that 25 any membership other than an individual would have 597 1 a designated person and a designated person can 2 only be those that they own or being designated. 3 It can't be multiples. There are ways to deal 4 with it, but it is not ready for us at this point, 5 I don't think. 6 DIRECTOR BITTER: We need a motion to 7 refer. 8 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: I will move to refer 9 that back to the Committee. 10 DIRECTOR CAMPBELL: I second it. 11 PRESIDENT SAUM: It has been seconded by 12 Campbell. All those in favor of referring this to 13 the Committee, please say "aye". Any "no" votes? 14 There are no "no" votes. Any abstentions? 15 Considine abstained. The motion to refer back 16 passes. 17 DIRECTOR KEMPE: Who will assign these 18 people to these Committees? 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: I will. 20 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: I will be willing to 21 help. 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: There we go. 23 DIRECTOR KEMPE: No. 9, "The phone 24 number must match the physical address on the 25 membership/renewal form." 598 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: Petersen. 2 DIRECTOR PETERSEN: I have a problem 3 with this from the Committee also. Not everyone 4 has a phone number. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: If you don't have a 6 phone number, you don't list it. 7 Rucker. 8 DIRECTOR RUCKER: Some of us do have a 9 phone number, but it does not match. When we 10 moved a year and a half ago, we had our old phone 11 number forwarded to a cell phone, I believe in a 12 different area code than my own phone number is, 13 so if you do a search you will get nothing. 14 DIRECTOR BITTER: I call for the 15 question. 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: The question has been 17 called by Bitter. All those in favor that the 18 phone number must match the physical address on 19 the membership/renewal form, meaning the same 20 phone number, all those in favor will say "aye"; 21 any "no" votes? Any abstentions? The motion 22 failed. 23 I want to say thank you, Bonnie. She 24 had a lot of e-mails. We are not through yet. 25 Petersen. 599 1 DIRECTOR PETERSEN: I asked this 2 question, but I have got it in the minutes, last 3 year it was referred back to the Membership 4 Committee to do the herd surname, Page 569. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: I read it one way and 6 you read it another way. I referred it back to 7 the History Committee. 8 DIRECTOR PETERSEN: It says right here, 9 Page 569, where the vote was taken and our lovely 10 President said, "Good luck, Ronnie." 11 DIRECTOR KEMPE: She is making a 12 reference to look it up, what was it, the release 13 problem of her name, that are no longer being used 14 and how long we kept them and how far back we 15 should to protect them? I misunderstood what that 16 said and I thought it had been sent to Shari's 17 Committee to deal with. She was going to research 18 it to make sure we didn't reassign any votes 19 before we did anything. 20 DIRECTOR REYNA: I didn't do anything. 21 DIRECTOR KEMPE: What should I do, then? 22 The History Committee is not going to do it. 23 DIRECTOR REYNA: The History Committee 24 was charged with a list that had potential to be 25 the historical events and protecting them for a 600 1 period of ten years, but not dealing with the 2 issue problems per se. 3 DIRECTOR KEMPE: But until my Committee 4 has that list, we can't re-issue anything. 5 DIRECTOR REYNA: It is not yet ready. 6 DIRECTOR KEMPE: When it is, we will 7 deal with it. 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: Hendrickson. 9 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: This is not for 10 the Membership Committee, but it is a membership 11 issue. Our Constitution, on Page 1, lists 12 membership. The Constitution and Bylaws Committee 13 probably looked into establishing different types 14 of membership and possibly to make our corporate 15 and farm membership a non-voting membership that 16 does business at the membership rate with ADGA. 17 If a person is a member of a farm, they 18 would have to have an individual membership to be 19 a voting member, much like I would have to have an 20 individual membership to be a Director or an ADGA 21 Judge. 22 I think we probably need to have several 23 tiers of membership that allows both. This is 24 going to get to the point where one vote, one 25 person will be a practical thing to do because 601 1 right now I could have my hands in 20 different 2 memberships and vote all of them. 3 That is what we have been trying to 4 avoid having happen is what we are trying to pass 5 here. So what we really need to do is to 6 establish different tiers of membership that are 7 voting members, and then the people who do 8 business with the Association at the membership 9 rate, that they are liable for the vote. 10 I feel we need to do that and have the 11 Constitution and Bylaws Committee to look into 12 that. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: That is something we 14 will refer to the Committee and pass that on to 15 them. 16 DIRECTOR KEMPE: That is not my 17 Committee. 18 PRESIDENT SAUM: The Constitution and 19 Bylaws Committee. 20 Strickland. 21 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: We have to be 22 aware in this report to the National Livestock 23 Council and how the organization be afforded 24 tremendous savings because they do an online 25 version of hard copies that go only to the 602 1 customer. 2 If we are going to look at like a 3 membership directory and the members only Web 4 site, that may give you considerable savings for 5 other people who wish a hard copy and yet our 6 Constitution says we will mail a copy to our 7 membership. 8 I think we need to look and see as we 9 move to the next year to do online service, and 10 maybe someone could have a publication that would 11 be available. We also might have to change our 12 Constitution to comply. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: I have got a 14 recommendation for the Constitution and Bylaws 15 Committee to review. I saw that and so our 16 Constitution Committee will need to see that. We 17 want to do that as a cost savings. 18 Thank you, Bonnie. In alphabetical 19 order, that brings us to the National Show. 20 REPORT OF NATIONAL SHOW 21 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: This is the 22 breakdown that was handed to you. The Sunshine 23 Farm that you see there is not that Sunshine. 24 That was the people that provided it. Dan didn't 25 do that. 603 1 First, I want to start off by saying 2 this is really a great year for National Shows as 3 far as helping the local Committee. One thing 4 they did this year, as far as helping the local 5 and people who travel really far distance to get 6 here and set up the pens were incredible. 7 Just everything was again a really 8 incredible group of people to work with, and I 9 would like to work with them again. We did have 10 some problems. They had to in addition to the 11 $10,000 they provided to us, they wanted to 12 provide some other things but the goals were not 13 reached. 14 We had the work done. We received a 15 bill from the facilities that exceeded $8,000 of 16 the original bid, which created a little bit of a 17 budget problem for us. I did finally get hold of 18 the person in charge and they agreed to go to the 19 original bid, and that makes us pretty much right 20 on track. 21 What we have made in fund-raising right 22 now is at about $1,550. I believe that Sally 23 makes another $1,000, which will be easily even 24 right now on the ballot. 25 I have a question for Shirley. Do we 604 1 get all the income from the Colorama? Is that 2 still outstanding? 3 OFFICE MANAGER McKENZIE: Yes. 4 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: There will be 5 more coming in from the Colorama, and then there 6 will be more coming in; is that correct? 7 OFFICE MANAGER McKENZIE: Yes. 8 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: What is the 9 total not received from the Colorama? 10 OFFICE MANAGER McKENZIE: $2,000. 11 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: That makes a big 12 difference in the bottom line. 13 PRESIDENT SAUM: Shirley said it was 14 $2,000. I think that is coming from the Colorama. 15 Rucker. 16 DIRECTOR RUCKER: I am a little confused 17 in that like Michigan is breaking even, but the 18 report I have in front of me says it made a 19 $24,000 profit. 20 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: We depreciated 21 the facility bill. It was in excess of $8,000 of 22 the original bid. I told Shirley not to pay that 23 until I could negotiate that. Like I said, I just 24 found out about that bill probably not even a week 25 ago. 605 1 I have been talking to them. They had 2 been out of the country and not able to get back 3 to me. I called them Monday and back to the 4 original bid. We owe them $36,000 on that. That 5 is what they wanted. Then we take off that nearly 6 $8,000. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Hendrickson. 8 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: On the National 9 Show fund-raising income side here is $15,000. 10 The $15,000 part of the raffle, is that part of 11 that? 12 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: Yes. 13 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: Is there a 14 breakdown of how much was brought in on that 15 total? 16 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: Shirley is 17 shaking her head there. 18 Sally will have that information 19 somewhere, and we could ask her that if you want 20 to know. She can probably remember off the top of 21 her head how much that brings in. Fund-raising is 22 everything they sell here, everything they sell at 23 the booth during the National Show and throughout 24 the year. 25 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: Can we clean up the 606 1 numbers? When you are estimating, you can have 2 the following two pieces of income that is there, 3 and an additional $3,000 for fund-raising that is 4 at the National Shows that Sally is doing this 5 year at convention, plus the $2,000 from the 6 Colorama sale. 7 On the expenses, the negotiated price 8 for the facilities is $28,000, and with the 9 combination of those monies you should come to 10 about a break even or a small profit there. You 11 should be looking at $114,000 on the cost, and you 12 should be looking towards expenses of about 13 $112,000 or $113,000. That is the outstanding 14 $28,000 bill that has to be saved on the expenses. 15 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 16 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: Could we have why 17 the facility bill was more than we actually bid? 18 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: There was a 19 variety of things. One was the original contract 20 does not have any allowance for milk disposal. I 21 had the local club ask three times, specifically 22 stating that we can dump that down the sewer at no 23 additional charges. 24 Each time we were told there would be no 25 additional charges. The $2,000 was a fee for 607 1 putting in sewage back-up. That did not happen. 2 We should not have been billed for that. That is 3 why I went back to her on that. 4 There was also additional fees for 5 insurance, additional fees for janitorial 6 services. There was food and everything like 7 charges for chairs and tables. They charged for 8 450 chairs, and I think 200 tables. We didn't use 9 that amount. 10 Then there was the issue with the pens. 11 That is what they actually provided and sold. I 12 talked to Sally about that on Monday and she 13 agreed to go back to the original contract price. 14 She wanted to know if we had a block time. I told 15 her absolutely not. 16 Any more questions? 17 DIRECTOR HENDRICKSON: Just as a 18 sideline, even with all these expenses that are 19 listed here, National has got nothing in there for 20 the shading in the ring. They gave us fans around 21 the ring to cool it down, and there were a lot of 22 things that are really not listed here. 23 So when you look at the total expense of 24 any of these shows, there was for the local people 25 any place I think that is true, that you have to 608 1 step up to bring in a little extra. They would be 2 much more expensive than they show on the profit 3 and loss statement. 4 We had a lot of things donated and 5 people that just give out of pocket. That was all 6 money just out of pocket for the host group they 7 had donated. There are a lot of things that don't 8 show on here what it truly makes one of these 9 shows. 10 This one show, the people were happy 11 with it. I don't think anybody that was involved 12 in it locally is going to do one for eight to ten 13 years. It takes that long to get over being tired 14 from this one. 15 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: They did a 16 wonderful job. They helped to unload the animals 17 and get you into your pens. I mean, it was just a 18 matter of a short time. 19 DIRECTOR PETERSEN: I am not sure if 20 this is Colorama or the National Show. But since 21 it is on the National Show paper, I will ask it. 22 Is there any reasoning behind why we pay 23 so much for the auctioneer? I have the 24 transaction by the report, and $879.78 is a lot of 25 money to pay for the auctioneer for our sales. 609 1 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: I can address 2 that some. I don't see Don here in the room, but 3 he did contact the area for an auctioneer. He 4 contacted local groups and waited a couple of 5 months and got to the point where he had no other 6 choice. 7 So he contacted Danny to see if Danny 8 could do it for a reasonable amount. He did 9 actually probably pay for himself in bringing in 10 extra income. He does work the crowd really well. 11 Any of you who have been at one of these sales, 12 Danny does seem to work it. He does a real good 13 outstanding job in bringing in money for these 14 animals. 15 Basically, he could not find a local 16 auctioneer. I believe he contacted Pat and the 17 local Committee to see if anybody was in the area, 18 but there no local auctioneers that would do it. 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: Bitter. 20 DIRECTOR BITTER: Having run the 21 Spotlight Sale for several years and watching 22 other sales and previous sales over many years, if 23 you don't get an auctioneer that will listen to 24 you or work with you, you dump a lot of animals 25 and have a lot of mad people. 610 1 I think in this situation people of his 2 caliber easily return more than their cost to the 3 Association. 4 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rucker. 5 DIRECTOR RUCKER: I thank you for the 6 breakdown, and I would ask in the future years 7 that it be included. 8 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: I don't do that. 9 That is Shirley's department. I just got the 10 information, and the original bill to Shirley. 11 The original paperwork was like $30,000 in the 12 hole, so we did some moving around and finally 13 came up with this amount. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: Shirley, will you 15 provide that next year, the breakdown on that? 16 OFFICE MANAGER McKENZIE: Yes. 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: Strickland. 18 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: The breakdown of 19 the charges were provided. It was a sheet 20 attached to the e-mail. I have it right here. 21 That is one thing. 22 The second thing, I just wanted to 23 verify that the expenses, we have expenses for the 24 National Show office. Is that Shirley's lodging? 25 Then one last thing is people from the 611 1 West Coast and people from the national local 2 group saw this report and said where is that 3 $10,000 we spent? We don't see it. 4 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: It is on the 5 back side. 6 DIRECTOR STRICKLAND: The $10,000 they 7 raised was accepted and have acknowledged it and 8 put it to good use. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: Anything else for 10 Helen? 11 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: We really 12 appreciate the fund-raising ability of this local 13 group in order to bring down the fees and cost of 14 the actual exhibitors. 15 REPORT OF NATIONAL SHOW COLORAMA COMMITTEE 16 PRESIDENT SAUM: Does anybody have any 17 questions on the National Show Colorama Sale? 18 That is separated out. 19 Bitter. 20 DIRECTOR BITTER: Not on the Colorama, 21 but just this thing be straightened out for the 22 vendors, particular Directors if you have plans 23 for the future. The vendor hospitality is perhaps 24 a little different than the perception of the 25 speaker this year. 612 1 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: We have to have 2 some reserve. Quickly, the program is meeting 3 events that were too expensive for us to absorb. 4 I had to make it down to about what we are paying 5 now. 6 PRESIDENT SAUM: I am hearing people 7 saying we need a break. 8 DIRECTOR BERRY: There is water running 9 through the spotlight here. 10 PRESIDENT SAUM: I will ask Helen to do 11 the Colorama report. 12 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: I didn't bring 13 that. I just happened to have it here. As you 14 will notice, he has a profit here. I don't recall 15 the figure, but I would assume his numbers would 16 be correct after we receive the income that we 17 have not received. 18 Would that be correct on that? 19 PRESIDENT SAUM: Shirley said the 20 typewritten report that you have, the figures 21 there should be correct, even though we have got a 22 couple of thousand dollars that we are waiting to 23 get. Does that make sense? 24 Morris. 25 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I have a question 613 1 regarding the paying of the hotel room for the 2 Colorama sale person, for the Chairman. There are 3 other people on the Committee that are there that 4 they are not being reimbursed for their time. 5 They travel there. Do we pay for John's motel for 6 the week? 7 DIRECTOR HELEN SNYDER: That is correct. 8 It has been in place long before I was ever 9 involved. 10 PRESIDENT SAUM: Greg, I am not sure if 11 you have it. I will provide it to you, the 12 guidelines. 13 DIRECTOR MORRIS: I have them. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: He calls under that 15 category. The EC will bring some recommendations 16 on that this year. That is provided we would like 17 to define what Committee, what level. Anything 18 else for Helen on the Colorama sale? Thank you, 19 Helen. 20 Next would be Production Testing. 21 DIRECTOR ROWE: Can I ask a question 22 about the Task Force? There was no report, and I 23 did want some clarification regarding the Task 24 Force charge and future work and one item that I 25 thought would be reported this year with the 614 1 approval of the official was the measuring device 2 for Nigerian Dwarfs and also as I am interested in 3 seeing some further action in the availability of 4 these devices to our Association for our members. 5 I don't know if that Task Force will 6 continue or if we would be assigning that kind of 7 work to another Committee. 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: That is a good 9 question. 10 Berry. 11 DIRECTOR BERRY: Well, simply, actually 12 Mr. Daubert has sent various mailings. I have 13 some mailings from him earlier and I was surprised 14 there was not a final report from the Committee, 15 because the Committee was not totally inactive. 16 But for some reason, there was no final action 17 taken. 18 There was discussion of that very topic 19 that Robin is bringing up. Helen brought up that 20 we have an approved measuring device, an approved 21 device, and that actually did not work. I am 22 sorry. 23 PRESIDENT SAUM: Rucker. 24 DIRECTOR RUCKER: As a point of 25 clarification, that was not Committee work. 615 1 PRESIDENT SAUM: No, the Task Force 2 reviewed it and it wasn't done, and he wasn't 3 clear, and Paul offered to do that. It was done 4 and mailed to the Judges and placed in the 5 Guidebook. 6 We need a measuring device, if we want 7 to do that, to refer that to the appropriate 8 Committee at this point, and that he brought that 9 up last night and that the Task Force really 10 hasn't presented anything right now. 11 So if somebody has a suggestion on a 12 measuring device, what they should do, we can do 13 that. 14 DIRECTOR ROWE: My suggestion would be 15 that the EC appoint an Ad Hoc Committee to deal 16 with specifically that issue, so they can identify 17 the device for approval, and then exploring where 18 the Ad Hoc Committee would do the devices or 19 provide updates for members for this. 20 PRESIDENT SAUM: Okay. Thank you. 21 REPORT OF PRODUCTION TESTING COMMITTEE 22 PRESIDENT SAUM: Are you ready for the 23 Production Testing Committee report, Joan? 24 DIRECTOR ROWE: You have the report on 25 testing. I believe that we have additional 616 1 copies. Yesterday, you received a copy of the 2 report program brochure. I would like you to find 3 that and pull it out as well. 4 Also, I will be referring back to one 5 item in the 2005 report of the report we had 6 yesterday. I asked you to refer back to that when 7 I asked for Board action. Are we still waiting 8 for the reports? Many people don't have them. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: Lawson, do you want to 10 say something? 11 DIRECTOR LAWSON: I have just one thing 12 to say. The device used for the measuring for 13 miniature horses is readily available at many pet 14 shops. I provided information to Shirley a while 15 back on where to buy those. 16 DIRECTOR ROWE: While you are waiting 17 for the reports, I will just give a brief summary 18 of the topics we will be addressing. Your report 19 will contain those and the summaries. We have 20 four major items to deal with in terms of items 21 for Board action. 22 That is the renewal of the quality 23 assurance contract with California DHIA. I will 24 read the background of it because you don't have 25 the report yet. Contract with CDHIA to provide 617 1 the Quality Assurance Program for Dairy Goat 2 Production Records is due for renewal. 3 The oversight is required within the 4 Memorandum of Understanding between USDA Animal 5 Improvement Laboratory and ADGA. CDHIA is the 6 only provider interested in providing this 7 service. 8 A new contract has been negotiated for a 9 three-year period at the cost of our previous two- 10 year contract, $3,000 a year as opposed to $4,000 11 per year. This has the benefit of being cheaper 12 and lessening the need to re-negotiate so 13 frequently, and recognize the workload can be 14 lessened and, therefore, be not as expensive due 15 to improvement at ADGA with regard to tracking 16 herds, members, continuing education, testers, et 17 cetera. 18 This is to work within the office that 19 we have access and are able to share some of the 20 information that was being provided. Lisa has 21 this. Just before the meeting, we received the 22 preliminary report, and anyone is certainly 23 welcome to come in and review the Quality 24 Assurance Program. 25 Now, do you have the report? While we 618 1 are waiting for the Production Testing Report to 2 be distributed, I will address one item that I 3 intended to address after we voted on the renewal 4 of the Quality Assurance contract. 5 That is, that if you referred to the 6 Performance Program Coordinator's Report, our 7 cooperative agreement with Gene Dershewitz 8 regarding the genetics work, the agreement ends on 9 December 31st, and our program's coordinator 10 recommended an extension for an additional year. 11 I am quoting from the report. Gene is 12 willing for the Board of Directors to agree. So I 13 suppose that will be a motion from the floor. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: Backus. 15 DIRECTOR BACKUS: I move we renew the 16 contract for one year with Gene Dershewitz. 17 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: I second it. 18 PRESIDENT SAUM: It has been seconded by 19 Cassette. Anyone speaking in opposition to that? 20 Those in favor will say "aye". Any opposed? 21 There are no "no" votes. Any abstentions? No 22 abstentions. The motion passed. 23 DIRECTOR BITTER: Thank you very much. 24 (Applause) 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: Korhonen is not in the 619 1 room. Please note that Korhonen is still not back 2 in the room. Does everybody have the report? 3 DIRECTOR ROWE: Moving to the items 4 requiring Board action, I have described the 5 background for the renewal of the quality 6 assurance contract with the California DHIA, and 7 we are proposing this is an item for Board action, 8 approval of $9,000 for renewal of the California 9 Dairy Herd Improvement Association quality 10 assurance program contract for 2006 through 2008, 11 for a three-year period. 12 PRESIDENT SAUM: Does anybody have any 13 questions about that? 14 Burks. 15 DIRECTOR BURKS: Is this an item that is 16 in our budget? 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: $7,500 of it. This 18 will be a three-year period. 19 Did you change it? 20 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: We have the budget 21 of $7,500. It is a three-year payment. That is 22 $3,000 a year as opposed to $4,500 a year. As I 23 understand from Lisa, it is reviewed annually on 24 the expense, and our expense is down from $7,500 25 to $6,000. So we will cover that, but the budget 620 1 is higher than we need. 2 PRESIDENT SAUM: Anybody else? 3 DIRECTOR FAIRCLOTH: I call for the 4 question. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: The question has been 6 called. All those in favor of renewing the 7 contract with California DHIA for the quality 8 assurance program for a three-year period will say 9 "aye". Any opposed? No opposed. Any 10 abstentions? Korhonen has returned in the room 11 for that vote. The motion carries. 12 DIRECTOR ROWE: The next proposal is a 13 change to the ADGA Guidebook, and you are directed 14 to Page 47, Section IX A.29. You will add 15 language "provided documentation is provided that 16 the records were made under test conditions 17 allowable under and in full compliance with ADGA 18 DHIR rules." 19 This rule change applies to lactations 20 beginning after January 1, 2006. Just below that 21 is the background, and then the rule as it would 22 read in its entirety with the amended language. 23 The background is recently, the American Goat 24 Society approved a reciprocal testing plan for AGS 25 members. 621 1 ADGA does not allow for reciprocal 2 testing. The proposed change in Guidebook 3 language will allow verification that AGS records 4 are made under procedures consistent with ADGA 5 rules prior to inclusion in the ADGA database. 6 So, in a global sense we feel that any 7 registry that is for those people that are allowed 8 in any registry before we accept records they may 9 be under conditions consistent with our 10 Guidelines. This language is designed to do that. 11 PRESIDENT SAUM: Are there any questions 12 regarding that? All those in favor of Proposal 13 No. 9 will say "aye"? Do you want me to read 14 that? I see no one asking me to read it. All 15 those in favor will please say "aye"; those 16 opposed "no". Abstentions? No abstentions. The 17 motion passed. Korhonen is not in the room. 18 DIRECTOR ROWE: The next proposal is 19 changing the DHIR environment, that we are moving 20 away from a period where we are seeing the very 21 traditional structure of DHIA and finding there 22 are more stand alone associations. 23 For example, Road Runner, DHIA and other 24 global associations that we are finding they don't 25 fit exactly under the umbrella that has been 622 1 traditionally referred to. This is the 2 recommendation for the Constitution that our 3 quality assurance provider thought we should be 4 looking at, to add the words "or ADGA" relative to 5 the means by which or the claims of units that 6 would be approving the field service units, and 7 that would be the type of organization that would 8 be the Laboratories, Meter Centers and Dairy 9 Records Processing Centers. 10 So the rule would then be, "Only Field 11 Service Units, Laboratories, Meter Centers and 12 Dairy Records Processing Centers approved by a 13 certifying agency contracted with the Council on 14 Dairy Cattle Breeding or ADGA can be used by 15 participating herds in ADGA's DHIR programs and 16 one-day milking competitions." 17 Lisa, do you need any further 18 clarification to that or explanation? 19 MS. SHEPHARD: This is the explanation I 20 would offer is this was brought to us by our 21 quality assurance test providers, and they do have 22 criteria in terms of what the Association would 23 need for the Board of Directors and Articles of 24 Incorporation, and that kind of thing. 25 Road Runner has, for example, been under 623 1 the DHIA, and the cattle portion merged with 2 Texas, I believe, and so it left just the goat 3 portion of it intact. Although it has been in the 4 area that on its own were other kinds of 5 Constitution and Bylaws. 6 So they have some kind of requirement in 7 place, and they do provide that for us so that we 8 could do that, a contractor in order to do that. 9 PRESIDENT SAUM: Thank you, Lisa. 10 Anybody have any questions regarding that item, 11 adding that language? All those in favor will 12 please say "aye"; any opposed? There are no "no" 13 votes. Any abstentions? No abstentions. Again 14 Korhonen is not in the room. The motion carried. 15 DIRECTOR ROWE: The last proposal 16 regards the tri-fold brochure that was distributed 17 yesterday, and this is the black and white copy of 18 the brochure. As a result of the combined meeting 19 at last year's Annual Meeting between the various 20 Committees involving the performance programs, 21 there was a strong consensus further information 22 needed to get to our members in a brief form and 23 explanation of performance programs, and that we 24 would get more information to increase our 25 enrollment. 624 1 Lisa Shepard has brought a design page, 2 a tri-fold, and various Committees have had a 3 chance to look at it. We recognize that this is 4 not an entirely finished product in that DNA and 5 super genetics would be updated. 6 This could be a living document that we 7 could get out to the members for immediate use, 8 either online or perhaps Lisa might comment as to 9 what she might visualize in the office, or Shirley 10 instruct on how it goes to the members. 11 We wanted to bring to you this brochure 12 for approval, and again with the understanding 13 that it would be updated and changed as the 14 programs became available to members and are 15 online. 16 I want to thank Lisa personally for her 17 efforts in making this come to fruition, and many 18 of us in the Committee had an opportunity to see 19 such things, and it was helpful for us to have her 20 come up with a document. (Applause) 21 DIRECTOR CASSETTE: We discussed this in 22 the meeting the other night, and there are a 23 couple of little changes in the way it was said, 24 grammar. I know that the Board understands the 25 little extra things that were brought up were 625 1 minor changes to it that need to be made. 2 As an example, if you look at the tri- 3 fold, on the inside of the bottom it says contact 4 with: And it is not specific who the contract 5 would be. We will provide that. But that is the 6 general intent. 7 DIRECTOR ROWE: Further, it is my 8 understanding, and other may speak, that if we 9 approve the brochure, we will have our experts in 10 the office bring additional materials or editing; 11 this is really we are approving the concept, a 12 general concept, and that it can be edited as 13 needed. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: Gustafson. 15 DIRECTOR GUSTAFSON: Well, what cost 16 factor are you looking at? 17 PRESIDENT SAUM: Joanie. 18 DIRECTOR ROWE: I don't have specific 19 costs for you. Something like this could be, I 20 think it could be online for access to members to 21 print for personal use. We didn't discuss that, 22 and that would be something that we could do. 23 PRESIDENT SAUM: Shirley, can we do that 24 in the office? 25 OFFICE MANAGER McKENZIE: Yes. 626 1 DIRECTOR ROWE: There is very little 2 posted on the Web site, and we can make it 3 available for members to print. I think that 4 since we are not coming to you with a specific 5 budget, I would recommend that that would be where 6 we would start it with. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Is that reasonable? 8 Okay. Voting on No. 4, approve the tri-fold 9 brochure developed by the performance program 10 coordinator with input from related Committees. 11 It will currently be available online until we get 12 it processed and all printed. 13 Okay. All those in favor, please say 14 "aye"; all those opposed "no". There are no "no" 15 votes. Any abstentions? No abstentions. The 16 motion passed, and Korhonen is still out of the 17 room. 18 DIRECTOR ROWE: The rest of the report 19 before you is for consideration, and I do have one 20 general comment or request of the Directors, and 21 that is that especially as our more powerful 22 genetic tools are available for our members that 23 we all have a responsibility to help our members 24 picture their production testing and linear 25 services, and encourage our members to contribute 627 1 to the National database for our registered 2 animals. 3 So, if you need any help, please contact 4 one of our Committee members. We really want you 5 to be out there in person and to use these 6 programs among our membership. 7 PRESIDENT SAUM: Altheide. 8 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: I had a question 9 posed to me a couple of weeks ago and that was how 10 do you conduct a verification test on a dry doe? 11 Apparently, some of these herds will do a 12 verification test as required. 13 Some of the animals that are dry will be 14 listed as being in the herd, and their records 15 marked as being verified. How do you do a 16 verification on a dry doe? 17 DIRECTOR ROWE: My response is I think 18 that in terms of two different categories of 19 verification. When one verifies the herd, one 20 verifies all the animals in the herd, and that 21 includes recording their status, verifying their 22 identification, and for those who are lactating 23 following the prescribed procedures for the 24 collection of milk sampling, herd verification is 25 required for our various tests planned types, and 628 1 so on. 2 Verifying an individual entry is for our 3 awards, for example, the top ten, our procedures 4 would preclude a verification test for a dry 5 animal qualifying for an award. 6 One of our goals would be to consider 7 the appropriateness of further rules regarding the 8 stage of lactation regarding verification of 9 animals for top panel awards. 10 Do you have further comment, Lisa? 11 MS. SHEPARD: Just to clarify the 12 documentation that you are referring to, George, 13 as to verification is not ours. It is what 14 appears in the records center. When we look at 15 the verification on the top ten, we do ensure that 16 there is a verification test and we do have some 17 tracking that we instituted in the office over the 18 years to do that. 19 DIRECTOR ALTHEIDE: Okay. Do we have a 20 way to verify that the record made on the sample, 21 that they actually did have a verification while 22 she was in milk before she qualified for her 23 stomach? 24 MS. SHEPARD: Yes, we do that, too. 25 DIRECTOR ROWE: On the sampler, the ones 629 1 that are applied for on an individual basis, 2 someone would assume that is supporting 3 documentation would be needed in order to secure 4 that award. 5 PRESIDENT SAUM: Lisa Shepard. 6 MS. SHEPARD: Another clarification. 7 Bryan has made us a maintenance screen to track 8 verification on those animals on those herds on 9 the ROSS system as well as having to go to the 10 file. That is what we used to have to do. 11 PRESIDENT SAUM: I just want to clear 12 this up and I agree. We said that you do a quote 13 on the brochures before we sent them. 14 Does the Board want the EC to approve 15 that or do you want it brought back to you for 16 approval before they are printed? Does the 17 Committee want to make a motion one way or the 18 other so we are clean about it? 19 DIRECTOR BITTER: I move it be the EC. 20 DIRECTOR SENN: I second it. 21 PRESIDENT SAUM: It has been seconded by 22 Senn. Any discussion? 23 DIRECTOR FAIRCLOTH: I call for the 24 question. 25 PRESIDENT SAUM: The question has been 630 1 called. All those in favor will say "aye"; all 2 those opposed "no". There are no "no" votes. Any 3 abstentions. There are no abstentions, and 4 Korhonen is still out of the room. The motion 5 carried. 6 DIRECTOR ROWE: That concludes my 7 report. 8 PRESIDENT SAUM: Jamie Burks is also 9 gone from the room on that vote. 10 Lelia, are you ready on Registration? 11 DIRECTOR BERRY: I knew that was coming. 12 Let me put on my coat so I look appropriately 13 professional. 14 PRESIDENT SAUM: On the Products 15 Committee, I have not heard anything. Karyl is 16 supposed to present it. She presented it last 17 year. We need to ask Karyl. I believe she is 18 going to do it this year. 19 REPORT OF REGISTRATION COMMITTEE 20 DIRECTOR BERRY: This is the best time 21 of the day or the worst time of the day. All 22 right. You have a copy of the Registration 23 Committee report, and we have six proposals, but 24 some of them are kind of easy to do. 25 I have not got any new breeds for you 631 1 this year. You were hoping. We will get right 2 down to the six proposals that require Board 3 action. Last year, hopefully you all recall that 4 we passed a proposal for the Certificate of 5 Identification for Dairy Goat Wethers. 6 After we got home, I got home, I talked 7 to the Committee members and some of the Committee 8 members had thought that all wethers were included 9 and so they had voted in favor and assumed that 10 any wethers, any goat wether was eligible for the 11 Certificate of Identification. 12 So we opened the discussion up again 13 this year in the Committee, and they felt that 14 this was a positive thing to do, because 15 apparently a lot of 4-H wethers that are in it 16 meet different classes, maybe crossbreed does, or 17 whatever dairy goats, and they were not just dairy 18 goats. They wanted to approve that. So, they 19 did. They voted for it. 20 So we propose that the word "Dairy" be 21 removed from the Certificate of Identification 22 program that was passed also last year. This 23 would in effect allow all goat wethers to use the 24 program. You don't need to look for it because we 25 didn't put it in. I am glad we didn't put it in. 632 1 I didn't do the wording this year. 2 After we started this discussion, I had 3 planned to go home and write up the description 4 for this Guidebook, but when I realized the 5 Committee was confused, I decided it would be 6 better to take the action here, and then the 7 coming year we will write the material. 8 As luck would have it, because they have 9 been so involved with the lawsuit, they have 10 actually not implemented this, so that is a good 11 thing because now we should be able to get a 12 little bit more together before we write that up. 13 So, the first proposal is simply to 14 remove the word "Dairy" from the Certificate of 15 Identification program passed by you last year. 16 That would in effect allow all goat wethers to use 17 the program. 18 DIRECTOR BITTER: I call for the 19 question. 20 PRESIDENT SAUM: The question has been 21 called. All in favor will say "aye". Any "no"