29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 *********************************************** 9 AMERICAN DAIRY GOAT ASSOCIATION 10 OCTOBER 27, 2004 11 BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING 12 *********************************************** 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Taken before D'Lois L. Jones, a Certified 20 Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas, on the 21 27th day of October, 2004, between the hours of 8:00 a.m. 22 and 5:58 p.m. at the ADGA Annual Meeting, Albuquerque 23 Marriott Pyramid North, 5151 San Francisco Road, 24 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87109. 25 American Dairy Goat Association 1 INDEX 2 Page 3 4 Invocation --------------------------------------- 32 5 Roll Call ---------------------------------------- 32 6 Executive Committee's Report --------------------- 35 Reading of postal ballots ------------------- 44 7 Association Manager's Report --------------------- 55 8 Performance Programs Coordinator's Report -------- 60 9 10 ELECTION OF EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE ------------------ 62 11 Finance Committee report 12 regarding website issue -------------------------- 93 13 COMMITTEE REPORTS: 14 Information Management --------------------------- 101 15 Finance (Preliminary) ---------------------------- 115 16 ADGA Research Foundation ------------------------- 162 17 DNA Typing --------------------------------------- 164 18 (Motion to refer: p. 180) (Action taken: p. 182 (two actions)) 19 Advanced Judges ---------------------------------- 186 20 Awards ------------------------------------------- 188 21 (Motion to table: p. 192) 22 Breed Standards ---------------------------------- 194 (Action taken: pp. 196, 203) 23 (Motion to refer: pp. 211, 214) 24 History ------------------------------------------ 215 (Action taken: pp. 220, 229, 233, 234) 25 American Dairy Goat Association 1 INDEX 2 3 Page 4 COMMITTEE REPORTS (CONT'D.): 5 Judges ------------------------------------------- 235 6 Awards ------------------------------------------- 237 7 (Motion to take off table: p. 236) (Action taken: pp. 242, 243, 245) 8 9 Linear Appraisal --------------------------------- 247 (Action taken: pp. 247, 250, 258, 259, 10 263, 272, 278, 279, 281, 284, 293, 295, 296, 301, 302, 309 (two items)) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 American Dairy Goat Association 32 1 *-*-*-*-* 2 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: I now convene the 3 board meeting for 2004. Bob Cassette, if you could do the 4 prayer, please. 5 MR. ROBERT CASSETTE: Heavenly Father, 6 Creator of the Universe, we ask your blessings as we 7 convene to consider actions of our beloved association's 8 celebration of our 100th anniversary. We ask your 9 guidance in all our actions and that we do them with 10 brotherly love. Amen. 11 BOARD MEMBERS: Amen. 12 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: We'll do the roll 13 call now, but before we start that, Philip is working on 14 something that needs to be done at this point, so he's not 15 really late. He's doing more contact with our attorney 16 that I wasn't able to finish, so he's the first one on the 17 roll call. He is here, but he won't be calling out. 18 Second person is Charlotte Sankey. 19 MS. SANKEY: Here. 20 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Donna Anderson. 21 MS. ANDERSON: Here. 22 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Helen Snyder. 23 MS. HELEN SNYDER: Here. 24 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Allen Bitter. 25 MR. BITTER: Here. American Dairy Goat Association 33 1 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Pete Snyder. 2 MR. PETE SNYDER: Here. 3 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Cam Faircloth. 4 MR. FAIRCLOTH: Here. 5 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Linda Campbell. 6 MS. CAMPBELL: Present. 7 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Ruth Weaver. 8 MS. WEAVER: Here. 9 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Bonnie Kempe. 10 MS. KEMPE: Here. 11 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Carl Page. 12 MR. PAGE: Here. 13 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Saum. 14 MS. SAUM: Here. 15 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Tom Rucker. 16 MR. RUCKER: Here. 17 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Patricia Dean. 18 MS. DEAN: Here. 19 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: George Altheide. 20 MR. ALTHEIDE: Here. 21 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Daniel Considine 22 here. Dave Daubert. 23 MR. DAUBERT: Here. 24 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Jamie Burks. 25 MR. BURKS: Here. American Dairy Goat Association 34 1 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Marsha Gustafson. 2 MS. GUSTAFSON: Here. 3 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Noah Goddard. 4 MR. GODDARD: Here. 5 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Vivian Proctor. 6 MS. PROCTOR: Here. 7 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Laurie Petersen. 8 MS. PETERSEN: Here. 9 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Annette Maze. 10 MS. MAZE: Here. 11 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Shari Reyna. 12 MS. REYNA: Here. 13 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Mike Korhonen. 14 MR. KORHONEN: Here. 15 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Pat Hendrickson. 16 MS. HENDRICKSON: Here. 17 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Chris Strickland. 18 MS. STRICKLAND: Here. 19 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Karen Senn. 20 MS. SENN: Here. 21 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Joan Rowe. 22 DR. ROWE: Here. 23 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Kristi Bozzo. 24 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Here. 25 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Kristi, is it okay -- American Dairy Goat Association 35 1 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Yes, that's fine. 2 I'll fold down the bottom part. 3 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Lelia Berry. 4 MS. BERRY: Here. 5 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Sally Callahan. 6 MS. CALLAHAN: Here. 7 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Robert Cassette. 8 MR. ROBERT CASSETTE: Here. 9 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Ray Horton. Sheila 10 Nixon. 11 MS. NIXONON: Here. 12 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Allan Rogers. 13 So we have four of our six director emeriti 14 here with us today; and as you know, we have some new 15 directors with us this year. Cam Faircloth, who has 16 served as a director in the past is back, and District 4, 17 Rucker is a new director. Jamie Burks has been re-elected 18 as a director. Who else is new here? Mike Korhonen in 7, 19 are the new directors. 20 The year 2004 was interesting personally for 21 me, but I think it was pretty productive for ADGA, and it 22 hasn't been as contentious in my view. I felt that the 23 relationship among the board in general was stronger than 24 had been. I don't know if we will continue that here. 25 What we have been able to do in the management at ADGA was American Dairy Goat Association 36 1 to just work Shirley into a fuller role and become more 2 comfortable and confident in the work that she has done. 3 As you know, we decided not to proceed yet 4 with the hiring of another management person in the 5 office, while we did bring in Lisa Shepard who is also 6 here with us working, and she will be giving us advice, so 7 we have both Shirley and Lisa Shepard here to help us this 8 year. The planning for the arrangement with Lisa began a 9 year ago, and she began working on May 1st, I think is the 10 right date, and that certainly has been productive for us, 11 and we will be recommending an extension of that 12 arrangement. 13 I think that the -- when you look at the 14 main goals that were given to Shirley the number one to me 15 was that you have to do the members' work in a timely 16 fashion, and this is the second year now that the 17 turnaround time in the office has been way less than we 18 even requested of the office, and that after three years 19 of not even being remotely close to what turnaround time 20 should have been. So, you know, that is our -- 21 (Applause.) 22 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: During this year 23 obviously we asked a lot of Robin, and she really covered 24 for us well. It's a tribute to, you know, the kind of 25 people that we have that take leadership roles and accept American Dairy Goat Association 37 1 responsibilities on the EC that we have people that can 2 step up and do the work that needs to be done and we 3 really -- I really appreciate the work that she did, and I 4 know all the rest of you do, Robin, with the great job 5 that you do. 6 Through the situation that I went through, I 7 felt that the support of the membership and the board of 8 directors of contacting me was important, and I appreciate 9 that with all the problems, in a much longer time frame 10 than you would have expected, but people were calling. 11 We will be giving the EC reports in a bit. 12 We will now read minutes from the annual meeting last year 13 if you would like. Hendrickson. 14 MS. HENDRICKSON: I move that we suspend 15 reading of the minutes from 2003's annual meeting. 16 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Second from Senn. 17 Those in favor say "aye." 18 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 19 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Opposed? (None.) 20 Abstentions? (None.) All right. We will not need to do 21 that. 22 Okay. The summaries of the activities of 23 the executive committee will be split, and naturally as 24 usual the last few years, what we're doing here is 25 recapping. You've all been informed either by e-mail or American Dairy Goat Association 38 1 letter of these things prior to now, but it will give you 2 a refresher and an opportunity to ask about any of these 3 issues if you feel you need to. 4 Last fall one of the first things we dealt 5 with was the timing of entering or presenting materials in 6 the newsletter, and we did hold off on some things in the 7 first quarter until we were properly prepared. I guess 8 some people would have expected those things to be in the 9 first quarter newsletter, primarily procedure; but we felt 10 we needed more time to work that out; and given the time 11 that we spent, it did work out, but that will help out if 12 we would normally put it in the newsletter. 13 By end of November the committee chairs were 14 appointed, and the mailings went out in late November for 15 committees. We were working seriously with Orix at that 16 time and -- yes. 17 MR. FAIRCLOTH: We can't hear. 18 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. I guess I have 19 to hold it. I really prefer not to do it, but all right. 20 This feels comfortable when I'm judging, but when I have 21 to hold papers it's kind of uncomfortable. 22 We were working with Orix, the company that 23 the board had approved the contract with for data 24 processing, and work didn't start as soon as we'd like 25 there either, but the problem was in obtaining the American Dairy Goat Association 39 1 performance bond that we requested. The decision was 2 eventually made that we wouldn't be able to secure a bond, 3 and we instead were -- asked Bryan to find insurance that 4 we felt was the same thing. So that's how that proceeded, 5 but it did hold up the starting of his work with that. 6 A Mexico consulting arrangement was worked 7 out in December, primarily with Sheila Nixon and Allen 8 Bitter, and executive committee approved that, that 9 contract, and it actually never turned out to be signed, 10 but it was the basis for what we could do in the future 11 and probably we will have one similar to that signed soon. 12 There was an ongoing issue from breed 13 standards that needed to be addressed because of a 14 proposal for changing the Nubian breed standards had been 15 brought in, and there was disagreement among the people in 16 the Nubian -- National Nubian Club -- is that -- I don't 17 think it's club. National Nubian -- what is it? 18 International Nubian? 19 MS. SENN: International Nubian Breeders 20 Association. 21 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. International 22 Nubian Breeders Association, long-time organization that 23 we have worked with as a partner with ADGA. Not agreement 24 in that group, not total agreement on the proposal, so we 25 decided to send it back to our committee, and thus, that American Dairy Goat Association 40 1 was done in December. Otherwise, you know, that should 2 have gone in the newsletter as well for the whole 3 membership. 4 Okay. In December I also reported to you 5 that we had decided upon the CPAs that we would use, and 6 it turned out because of the pricing of the two segments 7 of work that we do and the advice as far as the office 8 space and Phillip, who had talked to these people for the 9 EC, advice about what he felt their strengths were, we 10 chose two different vendors to do the work, and the one 11 was Bobby Martin to do the tax work and then we chose 12 Woody Gastonian to do the election work. 13 We also changed, selected a different 14 supplier for ribbons. That change of ribbon supplier is a 15 result of work that Shirley and Paula or Myra, somebody on 16 the staff did, getting bids; and this bid turned out to be 17 a significant savings from the previous vendor; and as I 18 understand it now, did work out that our ribbons were 19 shipped in a timely manner and in general the show 20 officials at our sanctioned shows were satisfied with the 21 work. So we saved a fair amount of money and did get a 22 supplier that we were satisfied with. 23 Finally, the dollar value for that insurance 24 that I mentioned before was worked out in December and the 25 total amount of dollars of insurance that we would take in American Dairy Goat Association 41 1 place of the bond. And then Robin will report what was 2 done for a few months. 3 MS. SAUM: Okay. Can you hear me, Linda? 4 MS. CAMPBELL: Yes. Thank you. 5 MS. SAUM: Okay. All right. You guys have 6 have my -- I think most of you have had it for a little 7 while, so I'm not going to go through everything on it, so 8 I guess I'll just kind of hit the highlights. In January 9 we had the EC conference call, and I listed about a page 10 of things we ended up covering, so it was a pretty 11 productive call, and I think we had a little transition 12 period and we kind of got on the same page of what 13 everybody was going to do in the EC, so it was a really 14 productive phone call. 15 The D&O insurance, Shirley was able to 16 finally get something obtained for us. That's on the 17 second page of your report in February, so we are covered 18 for director and officer insurance, which is a great thing 19 to have. 20 The other big thing in the office this year 21 was practically a total renovation of the office. We have 22 an all new ceiling and lighting. We have new flooring. 23 You can walk in the back door, and you don't have to walk 24 around a little part where it feels like you're going to 25 fall through. You can just walk straight through now. American Dairy Goat Association 42 1 The walls were painted and the carpeting was laid. After 2 all of that was done, the two buildings that come 3 together, there was a little leak there, so the EC used 4 2,000 of their discretionary fund, which you all should 5 have gotten an e-mail about that, to go ahead and fix that 6 so that the things that we had already fixed didn't become 7 damaged again. So the ADGA office is looking very nice, 8 so hopefully -- I haven't seen it yet. I know that Phil 9 and Charlotte saw it when they went down for the auditors 10 report, but it was a big thing. We hadn't done stuff in 11 the office in 15 or 20 years, so it was a big improvement 12 that they really, really needed. 13 The other big thing we have done this year 14 is we hired Lisa Shepard on a contract basis for the 15 Performance program coordinator. She has stepped right up 16 to that role and just really been busy with the office 17 staff in getting things up to order and where they really 18 should have been for the last couple of years when we 19 really didn't have somebody in that position to do that 20 for us. She's also been working really closely with the 21 computer programmer for issues currently from the ARMS 22 system that she's been using to generate some of her 23 reports for things that go to DHI and USDA and that type 24 of thing. She's also working with him on the new ROSS 25 system to make sure there's things that are built in there American Dairy Goat Association 43 1 and won't be an issue when that comes along, so she's done 2 a really, really great job; and like Daniel said, there 3 will be a recommendation from the Finance Committee to 4 extend that contract basis for Lisa. 5 Obviously the IM portion has been ongoing. 6 Sometimes it didn't go as fast as what we would like. 7 Unfortunately, you know, with the loss of Jim Wilson, that 8 really put a big burden on other people in the office and 9 other people on the IM Committee to step up to the stuff 10 that Jim Wilson would have really -- you know, the 11 computer programmer really could have picked up the phone 12 and called Jim and said, "Hey, what are you doing on this? 13 How is this working?" The question would have been 14 answered, and it ended up being two or three phone calls 15 and a lot more laborious. 16 I think we're more on track with that. We 17 started having weekly or biweekly IM conference calls, 18 which I know you all got updates on those, and that was 19 really helpful. Bill Marshall and Gary Moore have really 20 put a lot of effort into this. They used a lot of earned 21 vacation time, especially Gary, to travel to the ADGA 22 office to review the program, to keep Bryan on track and 23 keep moving along, so we should really thank them when 24 they come for their report. They've done a good job. 25 (Applause.) American Dairy Goat Association 44 1 MS. SAUM: They should be here soon, both of 2 them. Gary and Bryan got in late last night. 3 We made it through the elections. We had 4 the new election protocol. We got it approved in time to 5 put it in the back of your guidebooks this year, and we 6 were able to follow that. That was great. We had a 7 couple of e-mails, a couple of phone calls, about people 8 wanting to clarify who could be a poll watcher and when it 9 would be decided and thank you, everybody, I didn't have 10 to make that decision. It was right there in black and 11 white in the back of the guidebook. Thank you, thank you. 12 It was very nice. 13 I think that's most of the highlights of it. 14 Does anybody have any questions over anything that they've 15 gotten or want more information on what they did get? Any 16 questions about that? 17 I will go ahead and read the postal ballots 18 into the minutes if that's okay. You should have 19 gotten these up in your updates. Petersen. 20 MS. PETERSEN: I noticed on my postal ballot 21 that some of the numbers are wrong. 22 MS. SAUM: Oh, that's never good. Okay. 23 MS. PETERSEN: Like the first one says "15 24 votes justified," but there's 16 names down. 25 MS. SAUM: It is 16. American Dairy Goat Association 45 1 MS. PETERSEN: And then the second one I 2 think there's seven. One of them, there's another one. I 3 can't find it. Oh, it's the last one. I think they 4 counted Bozzo twice because of the two last names. 5 MS. SAUM: Yes. Thank you. 6 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Yea. 7 MS. SAUM: See, that's why we put them in 8 there. Okay. The first postal ballot is postal ballot 9 0304-1. It was J. Robert Beauvais versus the American 10 Dairy Goat Association complaint. There were 16 votes to 11 justify the complaint. Directors voting "yes" were Reyna, 12 Bitter, Burks, Campbell, Harvey Considine, Daubert, 13 Goddard, Gustafson, Hendrickson, Maze, Morford, Petersen, 14 Proctor, Rowe, Senn, and Strickland. One vote was 15 postmarked after the deadline date of 4-6, and that was 16 Daniel Considine. 17 The second postal ballot was 0304-2, Michael 18 and Barbara Lawyer versus American Dairy Goat Association. 19 The complaint failed. There were six votes to justify the 20 complaint: Weaver, Saum, Bitter, Harvey Considine, Burks, 21 and Phil Cassette, and again, one vote was postmarked 22 after the 4-6 deadline. That was Daniel Considine. 23 The third postal ballot, 0304-3, the ADGA 24 executive committee is requesting funding of a brochure 25 that will recognize members who have contributed American Dairy Goat Association 46 1 substantially to our organization in the past 100 years. 2 It would include such people as past presidents, not "post 3 presidents," past presidents, past secretary-treasurers, 4 master judges, Mary L. Farley Award, Helen C. Hunt, and 5 Friend of ADGA Award recipients. The cost is not to 6 exceed 3,500. The postal ballot failed. There were seven 7 votes to approve it. May, Dean, Bozzo, Saum, Bitter, 8 Kempe, Phil Cassette, and Sankey. Again, one vote 9 received after the deadline was Daniel Considine. 10 The fourth complaint, 0304-4, Goheen 11 complaint against Jett regarding a service memo. I 12 contacted the parties by telephone, and they were able to 13 resolve that between themselves before it actually got 14 mailed to you as directors, but it was a numbered postal 15 ballot. 16 0304-5, the document, "ADGA Elections: 17 Instructions for Certified Public Accountant to be adopted 18 as a Special Rule of Order of the Association subject to 19 revisions as proposed by directors Mrs. Don E. 20 Hendrickson, Linda S. Campbell, and Laurie Petersen." 29 21 votes were received by the deadline. It was unanimously 22 accepted. Daniel Considine was a "yes," and it was 23 postmarked after the 6th. 24 And the last one, postal ballot 0304-6, 25 proceeding with the constitutional amendment. That one American Dairy Goat Association 47 1 failed. Two approved: Daniel Considine, Helen Snyder. 2 One vote was received after the deadline. It was Joanie 3 Rowe. It was a disapproved. One not voting was Allen 4 Bitter, and actually, Allen didn't receive his ballot, and 5 we didn't know that until after the ballots came in, and 6 his wasn't -- he didn't just not vote. He didn't get his 7 ballot, and he didn't know at the time. 8 Daubert. 9 MR. DAUBERT: George mentioned that on 10 0304-3 that is eight votes. 11 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Yeah, there's no 12 comma after "Cassette." 13 MS. SAUM: Yeah. I saw that. Sorry. My 14 spell check isn't good. Proctor. 15 MS. PROCTOR: Since you announced what 16 Rowe's vote was on the ballots, can we have what Dan's 17 was? 18 MS. SAUM: Daniel? 19 MS. PROCTOR: Yes. 20 MS. SAUM: On the first one, the Robert 21 Beauvais, was not justified. 22 MS. PROCTOR: Okay. 23 MS. SAUM: Daniel, remind me of Barbara. 24 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: I voted justified. 25 MS. SAUM: He voted justified on that. American Dairy Goat Association 48 1 MS. PROCTOR: On which one? 2 MS. SAUM: On the Michael and Barbara 3 Lawyer, he voted justified. The funding for brochure, 4 Daniel, I can't remember. 5 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Yes. 6 MS. SAUM: He voted "yes" on that one. The 7 Goheen complaint didn't go, and he voted "yes" for the 8 elections. Thank you, Vivian. 9 Anyone else have any questions? Campbell. 10 MS. CAMPBELL: Do we not have 30 directors? 11 MS. SAUM: We do have 30 directors. 12 MS. CAMPBELL: We have 31 votes in the first 13 item. 14 MS. SAUM: I know. I saw that. It should 15 be 16. I'm sorry. It should be 16, 13, and 1. If you 16 want copies of those ballots, I can get them, because that 17 shouldn't have been an error. 18 MS. CAMPBELL: I just wanted to correct it. 19 Thank you. 20 MS. SAUM: Anyone else? All right. I'll 21 turn it back to Daniel. Thank you. 22 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Well, then the work 23 done in recent times that would need to be reported, again 24 you've already seen districts, but there was continuing 25 talks -- we need a longer arm on this. Yes. I can't bend American Dairy Goat Association 49 1 over that far. Sorry. 2 There have been frequent conference calls 3 regarding the progress on the Orix system in recent weeks, 4 and I have been reporting those to you, so I think, you 5 know, you're up to date on them. Basically each time we 6 have a conference call the picture is a little different; 7 and the picture, meaning that time frame for doing certain 8 parts of the project is delayed. That seems to be a 9 regular thing. 10 On the other hand, some of the steps are 11 being completed; and the testing that was done this last 12 week and some of it before, a lot of it before actually, 13 showed that animals could be registered from a select 14 database of about a thousand head that was moved into the 15 system. As I understand it, these are animals that were 16 selected because they represented different breeds and 17 they represented different situations of moving in the 18 herd book and trying to challenge the system to catch what 19 we wanted to catch; and the items we were looking for in 20 the testing were worked out between Lelia and -- as 21 Registration Committee and her committee, and Shirley with 22 her data input people, so we had a variety of tests that 23 we were doing; and we were reregistering basically animals 24 that were already in ARMS and ROSS to see that the new 25 system would do what had been done with the old system. American Dairy Goat Association 50 1 That's testing that we have done so far, and 2 it shows us that we have a belief that we have a vital 3 system coming up and this will work. On the other hand, 4 each time with the delays that we see we have to be honest 5 in saying that the time frame isn't exactly on what we 6 would want it to be. 7 Also, I reported to you when we went over 8 the subject of when we pay out. At this point we pay out 9 22,000, part of which was for the equipment and part was 10 for the initial work that Bryan did on the system, and 11 that was paid out a long time ago. We haven't paid out 12 any moneys recently. We won't until one of these next few 13 milestones is approved to be paid, and the procedure that 14 we worked out to approve to pay it is Shirley and Bryan 15 will be the primary two people that will tell Bill, 16 myself, whoever, or the EC, whatever, that they agree that 17 that part of the system is working as it should work. 18 Each of those next two milestones is $600 or 19 something like that. So we had thought that the next on 20 registration would be ready or by now, but we didn't quite 21 -- you know, we aren't quite to the point where we want to 22 pay it out. You have those next, what's known as member 23 maintenance and then we have the folder and billing 24 section. Those three as it turns out probably will be 25 ready about the same time. They may be ready as early as American Dairy Goat Association 51 1 next week. But at this point none of them have been 2 approved, none of those three milestones have been 3 approved as quite ready for us to pay out on those, so 4 that is coming up, and I believe we have a plan that 5 should work. 6 Other items that we looked at were some 7 requests that came from directors and members for 8 materials, and those reported again. The decision that we 9 made as far as financial information being provided to 10 members who are not directors is that they were -- that 11 they can receive by request and paying for the copies of 12 the materials four items; and those are the operating 13 statement, the financial statement, the auditor's 14 statement, and the tax return. Those are items that 15 clearly under Missouri law are required to be provided, 16 and that is the answer that we then gave to the members 17 who were asking for financial information. 18 We denied them the request to receive the 19 listing of transaction detail by account, which is a long 20 list that has been provided to directors, but it is our 21 opinion and we got advice that it was correct that that 22 much information did not need to be provided to a member. 23 We were all in agreement on those parts. Linda Campbell. 24 MS. CAMPBELL: Just a point of information, 25 when you refer to operating statement, you're referring to American Dairy Goat Association 52 1 the management report? 2 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: No. That would be 3 the part of the -- what we get in a booklet at the end of 4 the year that refers to the business done during the year, 5 the income and expense during the year. 6 MS. CAMPBELL: Thank you. 7 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: So you may think of 8 three of those items I mentioned as one because we see 9 them from the accountant in one package, but technically 10 they are different. The auditor's opinion is different 11 than the materials that he has worked on, so we have to 12 provide all that and we did provide that to people who 13 wanted it. 14 Okay. We also had requests in that area 15 from Director Goddard for detailed transactions by account 16 records for the year 2004, and as I reported to you 17 before, the position we took and that turned out to be 18 unanimous was that the materials for the year would be 19 provided for him or anyone who wanted it that was a 20 director prior to convention. We didn't agree that we 21 should be asking the staff to issue this report on 22 different pages. And, actually, we are coming back before 23 you with that question and the board can decide what you 24 really want done there, but that's the decision that was 25 made at this point, and that was unanimous. American Dairy Goat Association 53 1 All right. Another question came from a 2 slightly different area from Director Proctor. This had 3 to do with election. As you know, the lists of members 4 who voted was sent to directors who requested it. In 5 addition, and I believe I'm stating this all correctly, 6 Vivian Proctor would like to have gotten a list of the 7 members whose ballots were voided, so that's a different 8 list of people whose ballots for one reason or another 9 were not counted. The final vote on that one was four to 10 deny, one to provide them; and another item that will be 11 before you is whether or not to provide that extra detail 12 about the names of people who made mistakes on their 13 ballot. 14 The person who I initially reported 15 incorrectly was Robin. She sent me a little note, and I 16 didn't read all the note over again to be sure what she 17 said, but when she printed it out she, in fact, did vote 18 for Lisa. Okay. Very recently -- if we're missing 19 something you want to talk about you should stop me. I'm 20 trying to just highlight this. 21 Very recently, as you know, we had to deal 22 with an issue regarding the posting of the transaction 23 bank account. What we have done there so far will be 24 reported to you by Phil partially as Finance Committee 25 chairman, and I will give you in a minute the place in the American Dairy Goat Association 54 1 agenda where we will be looking at it, if you can wait for 2 the details on what's been done; but anyway, what we did 3 so far is try to take care of the numbers that were there, 4 do what we could in that respect, and seek legal advice, 5 contacted Mr. Goddard and in turn his attorney and our 6 attorney, Walter Dalton, and they have exchanged letters, 7 which I just got copies of. 8 I would prefer that -- and our advice that 9 we're getting is to do very little with the specifics of 10 this situation, but we are going to bring you 11 recommendation for policies that would address this, and 12 the idea would be from the attorneys and my concurrence 13 and actually request this, is that a forum on the 14 particular incident here that goes on for a long time 15 without being productive to the actual meeting and 16 probably would be better handled after some time. So that 17 is currently what is being recommended, but you as the 18 board could do really what you choose. So that's where we 19 are at this point in the agenda. 20 I neglected to give you some changes in 21 agenda that have been requested I'll give you now. They 22 would be -- and we will insert these in these places by 23 consent unless you object. The election of officers, Item 24 12, will be followed by a short report from Finance 25 dealing specifically with the website situation. Finance American Dairy Goat Association 55 1 will come back again after IM with their other material. 2 After lunch today we would hear the DNA Committee report 3 and the Foundation report. 4 On Thursday the first two items would stay 5 as they are, but following that we would insert 6 Constitution and Bylaws. Now, if I've missed someone's 7 request for a particular time, let me know that. We 8 can -- we will, as you know, probably have to change 9 others, but those are the ones that I've got so far. 10 Okay. We would at this time like to have -- 11 you know, I neglected to talk about this. There's not a 12 lot you can say, but it will be a real different meeting 13 to not have Jim Wilson to be able to ask details of; and 14 it's, you know, been 20 years I think roughly that -- all 15 my years on the board that we had Jim to go to for that; 16 and this year we will proceed without him, but every time 17 we have one of those tricky questions of numbers of what 18 we can get, I think we will all remember. Even though 19 these are skilled ladies, Jim is someone we really miss in 20 that respect. 21 Shirley, your report. 22 MS. McKENZIE: Everyone should already have 23 a copy of my report. I believe that did come out with -- 24 MS. BERRY: Could I just quickly ask Phil, I 25 didn't get a packet the other night when you were handing American Dairy Goat Association 56 1 them out. 2 MS. NIXON: I didn't either. 3 MS. BERRY: Maybe the emeriti were left out. 4 MS. McKENZIE: Anyone who didn't get a 5 report other than Sheila and Lelia? It should be a 6 printed report, a copy of the management report as of 7 September 30th, and a list of deceased members. I would 8 like to ask you to look at that list and see if there is 9 anyone you know of who should be added to that list. 10 Helen Snyder. 11 MS. HELEN SNYDER: Mike Clay from 12 Pennsylvania. 13 MS. McKENZIE: Donna Anderson. 14 MS. ANDERSON: Cecelia Mills from 15 Connecticut. 16 MS. McKENZIE: Chris Strickland. 17 MS. STRICKLAND: The presentation Sheila did 18 the other night listed the top 100 oldest members, and one 19 of those was Mrs. Don Arnold, and she passed away I 20 believe in '03. 21 MS. McKENZIE: Mrs. Donald Arnold. 22 MS. STRICKLAND: Mrs. Don Arnold in Oregon. 23 MS. ANDERSON: Leif Christianson from 24 Connecticut. 25 MS. McKENZIE: That was Donna Anderson. American Dairy Goat Association 57 1 Sankey. 2 MS. SANKEY: Gerald Hurlbut from New 3 Hampshire. 4 MS. McKENZIE: What was the last name? 5 MS. SANKEY: Hurlbut, H-u-r-l-b-u-t. 6 MS. McKENZIE: In addition to the general 7 workflow, as Robin has mentioned, we had a little extra 8 activities going on at the ADGA office. There were a lot 9 of repairs that did need doing, and they were some major 10 repairs, but we did make it through those, and we're very 11 proud of how the office looks now. We have a whole fresh 12 new look; and if you're ever in the area, we would love 13 for you to stop by and visit with us; and we're going to 14 try to put some pictures up on the website so you can look 15 at those and see the new interior. 16 Any questions on my report? It will, of 17 course, be in the minutes. If there are any questions, I 18 would be glad to try to answer them now. Strickland. 19 MS. STRICKLAND: We've had some 20 communication from members about the timeliness that the 21 News & Events has arrived, and I realize that there is 22 much more involved than just ADGA publishing and printing 23 and sending. Has there been any consideration of 24 different dates, deadlines, so that it comes out earlier 25 so that things are timely and we have more assurance that American Dairy Goat Association 58 1 it's getting to members? 2 MS. McKENZIE: Well, of course there are two 3 issues that are based on when the National Show is held 4 and when the convention is held, but we can certainly try 5 to back those dates up, and we will look into doing that. 6 Campbell. 7 MS. CAMPBELL: And along that thought, we 8 had our action from 2004 to place the News & Events on the 9 website or allow people to receive it via e-mail, one or 10 the other, so I think that's something we're moving toward 11 implementing that will also allow members to receive that 12 in a more timely fashion. Thank you. 13 MS. McKENZIE: That is correct. Yes, 14 Strickland. 15 MS. STRICKLAND: I noticed your plans 16 for error tracking and continuing to improve to members, 17 which we greatly appreciate. I was specifically wondering 18 if there was something in place or looking at so that when 19 the work comes in and it's a request to register an animal 20 from a nonmember, but it was sold by a member so that one 21 is still a member, it doesn't rely on the return address 22 to charge that person the correct registration fee. 23 MS. McKENZIE: Well, as long as I can recall 24 we have used the submitter as being the person we use to 25 charge the fees. Of course, that would mean the American Dairy Goat Association 59 1 membership status of that person. Certainly if the board 2 would like to look at that while they're here the next two 3 days and make a change in that policy, we can do so. And 4 that is registration fees only. That does not relate to 5 the transfer. Campbell. 6 MS. CAMPBELL: Just as a point of 7 clarification, are we not on registration basing it if one 8 or the other is a member then the member rate applies, 9 correct? 10 MS. McKENZIE: No, we are not. It depends 11 on the membership status of the submitter. 12 MS. CAMPBELL: No. On transfers -- 13 MS. McKENZIE: If that is the breeder or the 14 new owner, we base those fees upon the submitter, and that 15 is for registration only. But, now, a transfer, if a 16 member or nonmember submits it, it is based on the fact 17 that if either one of those are a member we would charge 18 the member rate. Daubert. 19 MR. DAUBERT: We've talked about how many 20 copies of the News & Events arrive at a particular 21 address. Are we going to look at that? I don't need 22 four. 23 MS. McKENZIE: Yes. 24 MR. DAUBERT: Is there a way of reducing 25 that down to where I get one and we save some money? American Dairy Goat Association 60 1 MS. McKENZIE: Yes. I have discussed with 2 the programmer, Bryan Lenihan, the possibility of flagging 3 a member's file if they do not wish to receive a mailing. 4 Were there any other questions? 5 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Well, that was pretty 6 easy. Okay. The report of performance programs 7 coordinator, Lisa, will be next. 8 MS. SHEPARD: Good morning. You should have 9 your report before you. It's been a busy few months, 10 focused pretty much on getting things to the same schedule 11 that we've been used to as well as making a concerted 12 effort to document time frames of when reports are due, 13 how policy can, you know, transfer in case of change and 14 that kind of thing, so that we don't find ourselves sort 15 of caught short. It's been an enjoyable experience for 16 me, so if there are any questions I can entertain those. 17 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Rowe has a question. 18 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: We do have a 19 question. 20 DR. ROWE: I thought it might be helpful for 21 the members if you might just read into the minutes just a 22 few sort of big picture points. Having worked with you on 23 production testing, I'm familiar with a certain myriad of 24 things that you have been involved in, so I was wondering 25 if you could just mention sort of a few big picture items American Dairy Goat Association 61 1 that you've been working on. 2 MS. SHEPARD: Well, I think that the first 3 section that, of course, had to be worked on was some sire 4 development issues that, you know, had been kind of 5 waiting for, for a couple of cycles; and we got that on 6 track. Also, our usual work with USDA in order to get 7 formatting information to them. I have been able to take 8 over some of the work that Jim did with that so that we 9 could alleviate that kind of time from our programmer. 10 We have worked closely with the herds who 11 came onto owner sampler, for example, in order to make 12 sure that that program, which was a new program, was 13 successful for them and provided the records that they 14 were hoping to obtain, making sure we get those 15 verifications. 16 Linear Appraisal, I worked closely with 17 Director Bitter and Chairman Bitter of the LA committee to 18 kind of learn the system. He's been most helpful with 19 that. Production I was more familiar with, and we were 20 managing to make that fairly seamless and take some of 21 those areas over to staff rather than the committee, 22 especially interaction with our partners in testing. 23 Were there any other questions? 24 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Yes, here. Cassette, 25 Phil Cassette. American Dairy Goat Association 62 1 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Having been in the 2 office for a number of years and working with stuff, I 3 think we as a board owe Lisa a tremendous amount of thanks 4 for the work that she's done to step in, take over, and 5 clean up some of the systems that we see in giving this 6 report. I think it's a good time that we recognize her 7 for the work that she's done. Thank you. 8 (Applause.) 9 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. We're ready 10 for election of officers. And -- 11 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Break? 12 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Break? Well, no, 13 it's pretty early. I think we can get this done and then 14 break. The office of president is open for nominations. 15 Burks. 16 MR. BURKS: I would like to nominate 17 Robin Saum for president. 18 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. Robin has been 19 nominated. Do we have other nominations? Tom Rucker. 20 MR. RUCKER: I would like to nominate Linda 21 Campbell. 22 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. Linda Campbell 23 has been nominated. Do we have other nominations? Linda 24 Campbell. 25 MS. CAMPBELL: I appreciate the nomination, American Dairy Goat Association 63 1 but I respectfully decline. Thank you. 2 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: We need a second 3 nomination. Do we have other nominations? Joanie Rowe. 4 DR. ROWE: I would nominate Daniel 5 Considine. 6 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Do we have other 7 nominations? 8 MR. FAIRCLOTH: Move to close. 9 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: That was Faircloth 10 moves to close. Second from Hendrickson. 11 Those in favor say "aye." 12 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 13 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Those "no"? (None.) 14 Abtensions? (None.) All right. We go to a vote, and 15 with a chance for us to talk. Do we wish to talk, Robin? 16 Well, I am certainly interested in doing the 17 job again, but certainly also know that Robin would do a 18 good job for us, so I think you have a good choice here. 19 You know, I bring, I think, ability to get 20 people to work together and to move meetings in an 21 expedient manner while still being fair with people, and 22 so I'm sure that Robin would give you strengths as well, 23 but I'm willing to do the job again. 24 MS. SAUM: Thank you, Jamie, for the 25 nomination. I stepped in this year and filled in the role American Dairy Goat Association 64 1 and, actually, for me it was an interesting role. I 2 actually enjoyed it. I got to interact with more 3 directors than I normally would just from different things 4 going on and different contacts, which I did enjoy, got to 5 know a couple of people a little bit better. I like the 6 communication part of it. I like the e-mail part. I 7 think it makes a nice way to communicate if we all have 8 that; and if you choose to elect me to this position, I 9 would say thank you. I think either one of us will do a 10 good job for you. Daniel. 11 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: The Tally Committee 12 that we're going to work with this year are three of the 13 director emeriti, and these two ladies and Sally Callahan 14 are the three. 15 Okay. The request by one director that 16 ballots be counted in this room is being accepted, and I 17 assume you're going to have to retire to a corner or 18 something, but these three people will now do their 19 tallying in this room. 20 (Board members vote.) 21 MS. CAMPBELL: Mr. President? 22 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Director Campbell. 23 MS. CAMPBELL: While we're waiting, could 24 you arrange for another microphone for our table? I think 25 it's microphone deficient with the number of directors at American Dairy Goat Association 65 1 we have in the back. 2 DR. ROWE: Especially these directors. 3 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: And especially the 4 ones we have there. 5 MS. CAMPBELL: Thank you very much. 6 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: I don't know we can 7 do that, but I'll ask. 8 MS. CAMPBELL: I'm certain you can do that. 9 MS. BERRY: The results of the first ballot 10 for president, Robin Saum, 16; Linda Campbell, 2; Daniel 11 Considine, 11; one abstention. Total votes, 30. 12 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. That's a 13 majority, so we do have an election, and we're now open 14 for the position of first vice-president. Nominations for 15 that? Faircloth. 16 MR. FAIRCLOTH: I'd like to nominate Phil 17 Cassette. 18 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Philip Cassette has 19 been nominated. Anderson. 20 MS. ANDERSON: I would like to nominate 21 Kristi Bozzo-Baldenegro. 22 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Kristine has been 23 nominated. Other nominations for first vice-president? 24 Do we have any other nominations? Strickland. 25 MS. STRICKLAND: I would like to nominate American Dairy Goat Association 66 1 Linda Campbell. 2 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Any other nominations 3 for first vice-president? Hendrickson. 4 MS. HENDRICKSON: I move the nominations for 5 first vice-president be closed. 6 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Second from Reyna. 7 Those in favor say "aye." 8 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 9 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Opposed, "no." 10 (None.) Abstentions? (None.) 11 Okay. Phil, what would you like to say? 12 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Good morning, 13 everyone. Thank you for the nomination. For those of you 14 who do not know me, my background in dairy goats began in 15 1970, and, trust me, I'm not going to go from 1970 all the 16 way forward. Relax, but basically for that period of time 17 we've been on continuous DHI tests since 1974, so this is 18 our 30th year on tests. We have appraised all but two 19 years since 1977 when it was prior known as 20 classification. We generally show and have attended -- 21 actually shown at seven National Shows even though I try 22 to attend all of them to help out. 23 On my background as far as education and 24 work experience, I have a B.S. in accounting from the 25 University of Southern Maine. I passed the CPA exam in American Dairy Goat Association 67 1 1983, worked 10 years in public accounting, in the end 2 position of corporate audit and tax. From there I 3 transferred over to a company called International Cars. 4 At that time they were 60 employees doing 30 million in 5 sales. We now are partially employee-owned. I served for 6 the past four years as the trustee of the ESOP. The 7 company is now 280 employees with over 155 million in 8 sales. 9 That background along with my experience in 10 ADGA, working with the members, working with all of you 11 for the last few years, I think provides me with a good 12 skill set to continue serving. I thank you for your 13 support and appreciate your consideration. Thanks. 14 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: I want to thank Donna 15 for my nomination, and just a little background, for those 16 of you who don't know, I was married in January and the 17 last name is now Bozzo-Baldenegro. We use Bozzo for the 18 board meeting; and for those of you who don't know, I'm 19 expecting our first child -- and we did find out it's a 20 boy -- next year, so there will be a lot of changes; but I 21 think with those changes coupled with the changes we've 22 had and my experience on the EC, I've had a lot of fun 23 when I was first vice-president as far as doing the 24 committee reports or the committee assignments, was able 25 to do a little program on my own computer to allow us to American Dairy Goat Association 68 1 do those a little faster, and to make sure that everyone 2 who asks to be on a committee gets on a committee; and I 3 would like to continue serving, so I ask for your vote. 4 Thank you. 5 MS. CAMPBELL: I appreciate the nomination 6 very much, and I did decline the nomination for president. 7 While I appreciated the support that individuals have come 8 to me with this week, I didn't think I had the time to 9 dedicate to that position, which I think is one that does 10 detail a lot of time when it's done properly. There is a 11 great deal involved, and I appreciate those who are 12 willing to step forward and do that. 13 I have served ADGA in a number of capacities 14 and serving on the board the last 20 years, 22 years. 15 Gee, that's been a long time. For those of you who were 16 bored on Monday night when I did my pioneer report, I 17 won't repeat all of that, but it has been my pleasure to 18 work with the ADGA board. 19 I have a background in accounting as well. 20 I own three businesses. I think I bring a business 21 perspective to the board, and I bring in membership 22 perspective, having raised goats throughout many years. 23 Even though I had mine in '70, I wasn't a 4H person at 24 that point or that age. I had a few more years on Phil, 25 but I also believe very strongly in communication. I American Dairy Goat Association 69 1 think getting the information to the board, to the 2 members, needs to be a priority and handling this 3 association as a business needs to be a priority, and I 4 think I bring a team attitude to the group, and I would be 5 quite willing to work with any individuals who may be 6 elected in the rest of the committee. Thank you for your 7 consideration. 8 (Board members vote.) 9 MS. NIXON: Any other ballots? Okay. Thank 10 you. 11 (Votes being tallied.) 12 MS. NIXON: The results of the balloting for 13 first vice-president, Phil Cassette, 11; Kristi Bozzo 14 Baldenegro, 8; Linda Campbell, 11, for a total count of 15 30. 16 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Yes, Kristi. 17 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: I'd like to withdraw 18 my name. 19 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. We'll get a 20 second vote then between Phil Cassette and Campbell for 21 the position of first vice-president. 22 (Board members vote.) 23 MS. NIXON: The results of the second ballot 24 for first vice-president, total of 30 ballots cast, Phil 25 Cassette, 15; Linda Campbell, 15. American Dairy Goat Association 70 1 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. This will take 2 a little time getting this one figured out, but it's not 3 at this point going to be done by tiebreaker. You need to 4 revote and see if -- if any one of you out there changes 5 votes and no one else does, we get this decided, but 6 anyway, vote again, please. 7 (Board members vote.) 8 MS. BERRY: The third ballot for first 9 vice-president, Phil Cassette, 15; Linda Campbell, 15. 10 MS. HENDRICKSON: I have a question. 11 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Yes, Hendrickson. 12 MS. HENDRICKSON: Can we have forever tied 13 ballots, or will we eventually draw straws? 14 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Well, we will do 15 another one at least and in the meantime study that issue. 16 Bitter. 17 MR. BITTER: Can we ask them if they have 18 another comment or two for us that might change things? 19 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: All right. We can do 20 that. Page, do you have a comment as well? 21 MR. PAGE: Yeah, I believe, isn't it one of 22 the candidates has to drop out themselves? We can't tell 23 a candidate to drop out. 24 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Certainly can't do 25 that. The issue is does this vote of the board -- is this American Dairy Goat Association 71 1 vote of the board one in which the president is the 2 tiebreaker. 3 MS. BERRY: It has been in the past. 4 MS. NIXON: It has been in the past. 5 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: I think we have had 6 that in the past. It's an uncomfortable thing for me to 7 do and it's certainly better to hope that we can break it 8 by continued voting, so you-all had pretty good speeches 9 already, you two, so do we have any other speeches you'd 10 like to make? Reyna. 11 MS. REYNA: I know you're reluctant, but 12 could we ask questions of these two candidates? 13 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: That makes sense. I 14 don't see why we can't do that. Sure. Let's do that. 15 All right. Do you have a question? 16 MS. REYNA: Yeah. I just happened to have a 17 number of questions, but I'm on -- I'm really interested 18 in milk production, and I certainly participate in the 19 linear appraisal, and I'd like to know how our candidates 20 feel about the fact that there's such a low percentage, as 21 far as I know, of people on this board who themselves 22 participate in both programs. What about the board of 23 directors as models for the rest of the association? 24 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. We each get to 25 answer this. This is our presidential debate, American Dairy Goat Association 72 1 vice-presidential debate. So Campbell. 2 MS. CAMPBELL: So the question is how do we 3 feel about the fact that there aren't enough directors 4 participating in programs? Of course, we would like to 5 have directors participating in programs, but I think the 6 question becomes a little broader of what can we do to 7 increase participation among our membership as well, so I 8 think if I could follow that forward, I think maybe that's 9 where you're going, since we are the individuals, I 10 believe we need to be very familiar with the programs as 11 individuals and hopefully as much participation as we can. 12 I have in the past participated in both 13 programs. I am currently not on test, although I was, I 14 believe for about 10 years, so I think I very much support 15 both programs; and I would like for us to look towards 16 finding more ways to make that available to membership at 17 a price that is a reasonable price that they can afford, 18 because that information is what is carrying the industry 19 forward in terms of improvement of dairy goats. So I feel 20 very strongly that's very important, both programs are, 21 and whatever we can do to facilitate that as directors, I 22 think we should do it. Thank you. 23 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: In answer to your 24 question, Shari, as I said in opening, personally from a 25 personal standpoint, we've been on tests since 1974. As American Dairy Goat Association 73 1 far as linear appraisal, we've been every year except for 2 two since 1977. One of the very first part of 3 classification was actually done in New England. We 4 participated at the very first one, so I feel it is 5 important for directors to participate in our programs and 6 to encourage participation in the programs. 7 I also serve as president of the Maine Dairy 8 Goat Herd Improvement Association. My responsibilities 9 there include to provide training on an ongoing basis, to 10 make sure that supervisors are aware of the rules and are 11 in compliance with those rules. 12 When it comes to the areas of testing, there 13 is never enough participation when you look at the other 14 countries and the level of participation there is. We 15 need to continue to encourage that. We need to see if 16 there's ways to lower the costs. Production Testing 17 Committee I think has been great for our association in 18 the last few years and certainly when Lisa Shepard and now 19 with Joanie Rowe bringing forward. So I think that we 20 need to do it as an association. It's an important part. 21 Our members do benefit, all members do benefit, from 22 people being on tests because they use it when they do 23 selection of sires, so it's there. I would encourage the 24 board. I do understand that at times it is a cost issue 25 and not all people can participate, but we have. We have American Dairy Goat Association 74 1 been lucky to be able to do that, and our plans are to 2 continue. Thank you. 3 (Ballots distributed.) 4 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Oh, another question. 5 Yes, Strickland. 6 MS. STRICKLAND: We'll think of some 7 questions. 8 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Yes. 9 MS. STRICKLAND: Seeing how the first 10 vice-president has been pretty intimately involved in 11 committee assignments and such, I'd like to know what 12 direction you might give the committees in terms of 13 getting full participation so quorums could be reached and 14 things like that. What advice would you give to these 15 committee chairs? 16 MS. CAMPBELL: I think it's Phil's turn to 17 go first. 18 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: There are really three 19 issues to deal with committees and activities of 20 committees. My first belief is start right upfront and to 21 communicate to the committee chairs that they need to make 22 sure or to -- if they are new as committee chairs to ask 23 the previous one, if possible, who has been an active 24 participant on the committee. There is an issue to make 25 sure your committee works, and that would be the first set American Dairy Goat Association 75 1 of advice. 2 Second is that people need reminders. We 3 are all busy. You need to remind those committee chairs 4 of when items are due and facilitate that issue, so that 5 there is a second piece of advice back. 6 The last part in answering the question, to 7 make sure that the items go and we have ready for the 8 board, and I'm along with Shari's comment that she made in 9 the general membership meeting the other day, is that now 10 that we have electronics the issue of committee work 11 should be significantly easier as long as everybody has 12 e-mail. I do understand that not everybody does, but that 13 technology should be able to facilitate the working of 14 committees, and I certainly would encourage the committee 15 chairs to do as much of that as they can. 16 So if you provide direction with a reminder, 17 then you should have working committees who are able to 18 present reasonable, clear proposals to the board in the 19 fall. 20 MS. CAMPBELL: Linda Campbell. Actually, I 21 support very much what Phil has said. To carry that a 22 little bit further, I have set up a list for the 23 distribution for the committees to communicate with the 24 members by e-mail because I felt it was very important. I 25 also think that we could have some updated material on the American Dairy Goat Association 76 1 website on an ongoing basis on the work of the committee, 2 what are the things being discussed by the committee, and 3 that does two things. It does communicate to the members, 4 but it also puts the onus on the committee chair to make 5 sure there is some activity in the committee. I think 6 we've -- all of us are guilty, if we've served in a 7 committee chair at one time or another, of not maybe 8 getting started as quickly or moving along. Except for 9 Registration, that is the absolutely busiest committee. 10 Where is Lelia? She's done an outstanding job. 11 (Applause.) 12 MS. CAMPBELL: There is more traffic on that 13 committee than any other committee, so I think that's a 14 good sign. 15 So using those methods, and the third one -- 16 the second one would be in addition to the items Phil 17 mentioned, would be in having those motions in a prepared 18 form coming to us. I think those of you who were able to 19 attend the parliamentary workshop that Sheila organized 20 yesterday were able to see the types of information that 21 should be included in a motion. That information, that 22 instruction needs to be included to chairs, so we can 23 amend that committee letter, which I think is the same 24 letter I wrote as president. I recognize it, so it's been 25 around a long time. So to include that information that American Dairy Goat Association 77 1 very specifically tells a committee chair what needs to be 2 in a motion or in a request for board action so we have a 3 complete motion we can consider when it comes to us as a 4 board. Thank you. 5 MS. NIXON: Are we ready to vote? Okay. 6 (Board members vote.) 7 MS. SAUM: Just to fill some time while they 8 are counting ballots, Bonnie has the latest edition of 9 Robert's Rules. We didn't get that nice lady to cover 10 this yesterday. We should have. On page 426, "Whichever 11 one of the proceeding methods of election is used, if any 12 office remains unfilled after the first ballot as may 13 happen if there are more than two nominees, the balloting 14 should be repeated for that office as many times as 15 necessary to obtain a majority vote for a single 16 candidate. The same is true where two candidates are tied 17 for a majority vote for an office." 18 (Votes being tallied.) 19 MS. CALLAHAN: Vote for first 20 vice-president, Linda Campbell, 12; Phil Cassette, 18. 21 (Applause.) 22 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: That's certainly 23 easier than the other solutions. All right. Nominations 24 for second vice-president? Anderson. 25 MS. ANDERSON: I nominate Kristi Bozzo. American Dairy Goat Association 78 1 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Page. 2 MR. PAGE: I nominate Charlotte Sankey. 3 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Petersen. 4 MS. PETERSEN: I nominate Pat Hendrickson. 5 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Proctor. 6 MS. PROCTOR: I nominate Linda Campbell. 7 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Reyna. You have a 8 nomination? 9 MS. REYNA: She already did it. 10 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. Joanie Rowe. 11 DR. ROWE: I nominate Linda Campbell. 12 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: She just did it. 13 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: We have that. Any 14 other nominations for second vice-president? Rucker. 15 MR. RUCKER: Move that we close nominations. 16 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: We have a second from 17 Faircloth. Those in favor of closing nominations say 18 "aye." 19 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 20 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Opposed, "no." 21 (None.) Abstentions? (None.) 22 We go to a vote, and we need discussion 23 again. From Bozzo first. She was nominated first. 24 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: I guess I made it 25 more difficult the last ballot by recusing myself, but I American Dairy Goat Association 79 1 would like to serve on the EC again and would ask for your 2 vote. Thank you. 3 MS. SANKEY: Thank you for the nomination. 4 I have served in the past as your ADGA president for a 5 year and following that I did serve as the immediate past 6 president on the executive committee. There's not a whole 7 lot I can say at this point. I support the association. 8 I have supported it for over 25 years now, as I did get my 9 25-year pin last year. I would like to serve on the 10 executive committee again, and I would like to continue in 11 the vein of assisting the president and first vice with 12 communication, for improving committee response to 13 reporting, getting those reports in in a timely manner. 14 As has been pointed out, with the use of 15 e-mail that really shouldn't be as much of an issue as it 16 has been in the past. I know it was a great thing to get 17 all those committee reports e-mailed this year. You 18 didn't have to wait for the paper copies. It gave you 19 more time to evaluate what the committees had come up with 20 to help you make better choices as to how you would vote 21 when it came to the board. And I think those are the 22 things that I would like to see continue to improve if I 23 become another member of the executive committee. Thank 24 you. 25 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Pat. Would you like American Dairy Goat Association 80 1 to do it from there? 2 MS. HENDRICKSON: Okay. I would be very 3 pleased to get your vote for the executive committee. I 4 think we could certainly stand a little change of faces at 5 the front of the room, not that we haven't had very good 6 executive committee members. 7 To say something about the ADGA programs, I 8 have been on DHI tests all but one year of the 9 twenty-seven or -eight years we've had goats. We've taken 10 part in the LA program since it was called classification 11 nearly every year. I have over the years talked many 12 people in my area into going on test and participating in 13 LA, and I think that we need to do more of that as 14 directors, is to push those programs as well as look as a 15 board to making them more easily accessible and more 16 reasonably priced if possible for other members. 17 I have been a very approachable director to 18 members in my district. I have also helped people that 19 are not in my district when they have had a problem with 20 ADGA. I would like to serve in a capacity on the EC, and 21 I would appreciate your vote. Thank you. 22 MS. CAMPBELL: Joanie keeps turning me off. 23 As always, a sense of humor is very important on the 24 executive committee. First, as the first point of 25 clarification, Mr. President, I didn't hear my name American Dairy Goat Association 81 1 submitted. Maybe I was talking. Was it submitted? 2 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Yes. 3 MS. CAMPBELL: Thank you. 4 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Are you asking if you 5 were officially nominated for this position? 6 MS. CAMPBELL: I just wanted to make sure I 7 wasn't out of order. 8 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Actually, three 9 times, Linda, if it makes you feel good. 10 MS. CAMPBELL: I'm very sorry. I must have 11 been answering a question. I very much appreciate the 12 nomination and probably had enough to say, but I think I 13 can work, as I said, as a team member. Although I will 14 say, my opinion may not always be the same as the rest of 15 the team, I do try to help a group come to a consensus and 16 come forth with decisions that we feel will represent in 17 the best interest of the membership. But I do tend to 18 have opinions and, whether you like that or not, make 19 decisions. Thank you very much for the consideration. 20 DR. ROWE: I'm going to turn you off now. 21 (Board members vote.) 22 MS. NIXON: On the first balloting for 23 second vice-president, 30 votes cast, Bozzo, 8; Sankey, 8; 24 Hendrickson, 7; Campbell, 7. 25 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Well, how about that American Dairy Goat Association 82 1 for interesting? We just go to a vote if there is no 2 interest in any of you from withdrawing, then we go to 3 another vote till we get 16 for one candidate. Another 4 vote. 5 (Board members vote.) 6 MS. CALLAHAN: The vote for second 7 vice-president is Bozzo, 10; Sankey, 7; Hendrickson, 6; 8 Campbell, 7. We vote until one candidate has the 9 majority. 10 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Hendrickson. 11 MS. HENDRICKSON: I would withdraw from the 12 nomination at this time. 13 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. One of the 14 four names has withdrawn. We're still voting Bozzo, 15 Sankey, and Campbell. 16 (Board members vote.) 17 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Question? 18 MR. RUCKER: In our guidebook on page 13 it 19 does indicate that the president and vice-president assume 20 their duties immediately upon election, not after a break, 21 just a point of order that was pointed out to me. 22 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: We have discussed 23 that between Robin and I. It is her preference that we 24 proceed this way, which has been tradition, after 25 elections are completed and the group takes office. American Dairy Goat Association 83 1 Actually, I'm ready for her to come, especially if there's 2 a tiebreaker. 3 (Ballots being tallied.) 4 MS. BERRY: The results of the third ballot 5 for second vice-president, Bozzo, 12; Sankey, 6; Campbell, 6 12, for a total of 30. 7 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Charlotte. 8 MS. SANKEY: I withdraw my nomination. 9 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. We're now 10 voting for either Kristina or Linda for the second 11 vice-president position. 12 (Board members vote.) 13 MS. CALLAHAN: Second vice-president, 14 Campbell, 13; Bozzo, 17. 15 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Well, we've only 16 spent an hour on the election so far. 17 Nominations for member at large? Rowe. 18 DR. ROWE: Linda Campbell. 19 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Campbell has been 20 nominated. Do we have other nominations? Daubert. 21 MR. DAUBERT: Allen Bitter. 22 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Bitter. Do we have 23 other nominations? Dean. 24 MS. DEAN: Charlotte Sankey. 25 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Sankey. Rucker. American Dairy Goat Association 84 1 MR. RUCKER: Pat Hendrickson. 2 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Excuse me, what was 3 the name? 4 MR. RUCKER: Pat. 5 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Oh, Pat Hendrickson. 6 Sorry. Faircloth, Cam Faircloth. 7 MR. FAIRCLOTH: I move the nominations be 8 closed. 9 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: We have a second from 10 Maze. All those for closing nominations say "aye." 11 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 12 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Opposed, "no." 13 (None.) Abstentions? (None.) 14 All right. We need discussion then. Linda 15 was first. You want to speak again? 16 MS. CAMPBELL: This time Joanie turned it on 17 for me. Thank you again for the nomination. It doesn't 18 matter what capacity one can serve in on executive 19 committee in my opinion. Still a contributing member no 20 matter what the position is, so I would certainly be 21 willing to serve in this position. Thank you for the 22 nomination. 23 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Allen. 24 MR. BITTER: Thank you. I appreciate the 25 nomination. I have worked in this association to try to American Dairy Goat Association 85 1 get things done, as you can see from the redistricting 2 plan I threw out for everybody's -- to look at and 3 consider, and some people have thought it was kind of a 4 good idea. If you look at your financial information on 5 the management report, I designed the original one years 6 ago when we had nothing of that sort. We just had the CPA 7 numbers. 8 If you look at your committee expense 9 report, that was something I designed when I was Finance 10 chairman years ago. So I do things to try to help the 11 association to progress and do things right and keep the 12 members serviced well. Thank you. 13 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: All right. Next 14 would be Charlotte again. 15 MS. SANKEY: Once again, I want to thank you 16 for the nomination to this member at large position on the 17 executive committee; and as I stated earlier, should you 18 choose to vote me onto this committee, I continue to look 19 forward to do the very best that I can to do what's right 20 for the membership, to work with the directors, to be 21 available for any issues that you may have with the 22 executive committee, and to continue to communicate. 23 Thank you. 24 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: And then Pat again. 25 MS. HENDRICKSON: Thank you for the American Dairy Goat Association 86 1 nomination, and I also would be happy to serve in any 2 capacity on the executive committee, and I am willing to 3 work with anyone that is on the committee. Even though I 4 may have a disagreement with a person doesn't mean I can't 5 work with them, and I'm willing to move forward with new 6 ideas to see the association move forward and do its best 7 for its members, and I would appreciate a position on that 8 committee. Thank you. 9 (Board members vote.) 10 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Gustafson. 11 MS. GUSTAFSON: Yes, I would like to ask for 12 a point of order. Is it permissible for members of the 13 board to be leaving the meeting at this point in time? 14 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Yes. I would say if 15 you're talking about leaving, you know, for a short 16 period. 17 MS. GUSTAFSON: I just wanted to make sure 18 that it was in order so that we weren't in violation -- 19 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: In fact, Robin, do 20 you agree with this? I mean, my view has been that if you 21 need to take a break, you know, for bathroom break or a 22 headache break, even when we're meeting, just come back as 23 soon as possible. 24 DR. ROWE: Do you think it would be possible 25 to check the volume of the microphones, because we are American Dairy Goat Association 87 1 having great difficulty hearing from the front of the 2 room? 3 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. I wonder if it 4 might be a matter of adjustments on this machine. It 5 seems that these different levers are uniformly set, but 6 maybe we should ask for help from the staff. 7 DR. ROWE: We can't hear the one corner. 8 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: I know that one thing 9 that appears to be very helpful is that you have to be 10 closer than you're used to on these as well. 11 MS. NIXON: The results of the first ballot 12 for member at large, Campbell, 10; Bitters, 6; Sankey, 11; 13 Hendrickson, 3, for a total of 30. 14 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. You heard the 15 tally, so we have a split vote again, and we go back to 16 another round of balloting. 17 MS. HENDRICKSON: Mr. President? 18 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Yes, Hendrickson. 19 MS. HENDRICKSON: I will withdraw from this 20 ballot. 21 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. One of the 22 four has withdrawn, and Hendrickson is not a candidate, so 23 we are voting Campbell, Bitter, and Sankey, those three 24 people, and this is our last elected position since the 25 fifth spot I will serve as past president. So if you American Dairy Goat Association 88 1 would like one of these three as the last of the 2 positions. 3 (Board members vote.) 4 MR. RUCKER: Daniel? 5 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Rucker. Tom Rucker 6 again. 7 MR. RUCKER: While we're sitting here 8 waiting, I just thought I would pass on a comment. Monday 9 evening I rode down in the elevator with one of the 10 bellmen. He said he's been with this hotel for about five 11 years, retired from the postal system, has many, many, 12 many conventions that come through this hotel. Many are 13 repeat, and he has said he has never met and worked with a 14 nicer group of people across the board than he did with 15 our group. So I just thought I would pass that 16 information along. 17 (Applause.) 18 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Let's hope he still 19 says the same thing Saturday. 20 (Votes being tallied.) 21 MS. NIXON: The results of the second ballot 22 for member at large, 30 votes cast, Campbell, 12; Bitter, 23 6; Sankey, 12. 24 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Well -- Bitter. 25 MR. BITTER: I will withdraw. American Dairy Goat Association 89 1 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. You're 2 withdrawing. Then we have two candidates, Campbell and 3 Sankey, for this position. 4 (Board members vote.) 5 MS. BERRY: Third ballot for member at large 6 with a total of 30 votes, Sankey, 12; Campbell, 18. 7 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Thank you very much, 8 you three people. That was a lot of trips to the table, 9 and I appreciate the time that -- we all appreciate the 10 time you three did. 11 We now do have a break, and Robin tells me 12 that she would like you to reconvene here in 15 minutes. 13 15, that's what she said, 15, and we will begin with the 14 first order of new business. 15 (Recess at 10:35 a.m.) 16 MS. SAUM: I think we're about to the end of 17 our 15 minutes. We've had some requests for Diet Cokes. 18 We're working on those, so hopefully those will be here 19 shortly. 20 I just want to introduce quickly, Dee Dee 21 Jones is our court reporter today. She's associated with 22 Anna Renken, the one that we're all used to seeing and 23 we're all comfortable with, but she's recommended Dee Dee 24 highly, so I'm sure we're going to do well today. Just so 25 you know, tomorrow it's going to be a different court American Dairy Goat Association 90 1 reporter. It's going to be Patricia Gonzalez, so it will 2 be a different person, so just be sure if I don't mention 3 your name or whoever is up here to go ahead and mention 4 your name and call them out so they know since we don't 5 have Anna again. 6 The other thing, I think Jimmy Young is in 7 the room. He was our Youth Rep last night. You want to 8 come up and say a couple of words? 9 (Applause.) 10 MR. YOUNG: Good morning. For those of you 11 that do not know me, my name is Jim Young. I'm from Ohio. 12 I live in the northern part of the state. I started dairy 13 goats as a 4-H'er when I was young and I came up through 14 the 4H program raising -- I raise all Nubians. I keep a 15 very small herd. With college and work, the herd stays 16 small. I have been involved in our local clubs and our 17 state clubs for three or four years, and they have always 18 encouraged me to come and compete for Youth Rep, and I am 19 very proud to represent this association. Thank you. 20 MS. SAUM: Thanks, Jimmy, and he's from Ohio 21 so, yea. We haven't had one from Ohio I don't think since 22 Joel Smith, which was in the Eighties. Is that right? 23 MR. RUCKER: '93. 24 MS. SAUM: Oh, is it '93? 25 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Yes. American Dairy Goat Association 91 1 MS. SAUM: Don't tell Joel I made him that 2 old. 3 Okay. Like Daniel said before, the next 4 thing is going to be finance information from Phil 5 regarding what -- the website information. This isn't 6 going to -- this is going to deal with the website and 7 what was on it and what we have done to limit our 8 liability on that. It's not going to deal with how it got 9 there or any of that. 10 Goddard, do you want this in executive 11 session, or is it okay to leave it in the open board? 12 MR. GODDARD: What exactly is it we're going 13 to discuss? It was my understanding we reached a 14 compromised agreement. 15 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Microphone. 16 BOARD MEMBER: Use the microphone, please. 17 MS. SAUM: We have not. 18 MR. GODDARD: We have not? 19 MS. SAUM: We have not. We don't have 20 anything. 21 MR. GODDARD: We don't have any 22 correspondence from the attorneys? 23 MS. SAUM: Daniel Considine has been talking 24 with the attorneys. Daniel. 25 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: I thought from the American Dairy Goat Association 92 1 conversation that I had yesterday afternoon, the last one 2 with our attorney, Walter Dalton, after he and your 3 attorney, Robert Beauvais, had talked, that there would be 4 a letter they would both agree to that would cover the 5 situation for now, and what we got wasn't what I 6 understood we would get, and the two attorneys each wrote 7 something that wasn't alike. 8 So the one thing that we are agreeing on is 9 that we would not take any formal action, any discipline 10 action, here. If something like that happens, it has to 11 be later. We did agree on that, but we do have to inform 12 the board on the implications of the situation, and we 13 didn't agree not to do that. 14 What is still unclear is exactly what 15 wording is in the rest of the letter other than we don't 16 take formal action. That part we both agree. The rest of 17 those letters are not worthy to agree in our opinion. 18 MS. SAUM: Does that answer your question, 19 Noah? Do you want this in executive session or -- 20 MR. GODDARD: No, I don't. I'm not asking 21 for executive session, but I don't feel comfortable 22 participating in the discussion without having a legal 23 counsel. 24 MS. SAUM: This discussion is not going to 25 pertain to you. American Dairy Goat Association 93 1 MR. GODDARD: Okay. 2 MS. SAUM: Not personally in any way. 3 MR. GODDARD: Okay. 4 MS. SAUM: Okay. Cassette. 5 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: The purpose of this 6 session is to notify the board of a serious potential 7 liability. The situation is that the Finance Committee 8 upon notification that the transaction detail by account 9 was posted to a public website conducted a careful review 10 of the document. The document revealed the following 11 information in part or in total was included: credit card 12 numbers for BBNT credit cards and some Merrill Lynch 13 credit cards, the Merrill Lynch account number, the bank 14 checking account number, the health insurance account 15 number, the safety deposit box numbers, the federal tax ID 16 number, the North Carolina Department of Revenue account 17 number, the Rutherford County tax ID number, the Federal 18 Express account number, the Pitney Bowes postage account 19 number, the Evia telephone system account number, and 20 several other vendor numbers and vendor invoices. 21 An emergency session of the -- emergency 22 meeting of the Finance Committee was held and determined 23 the following action needed to take place and has been put 24 into place. The Finance Committee along with the 25 Association Manager to protect ADGA from potential American Dairy Goat Association 94 1 significant liability has taken the four following steps: 2 Request return of all credit cards held by appraisers, 3 cancelled all credit cards issued by BBNT, placed a hold 4 on the Merrill Lynch account, placed a hold on all Merrill 5 Lynch credit accounts except for the Association Manager, 6 instructed office personnel to contact affected vendors to 7 close accounts and re-establish new accounts, notified 8 BBNT bank that the checking account number and safety 9 deposit boxes that are located in that bank of the problem 10 and potential liability. 11 At this point the Finance Committee believes 12 it's taken the necessary steps that we can at this point 13 take, and we will keep the board informed of any liability 14 that results from this situation. Thank you. 15 MS. SAUM: Does anybody have any questions 16 for Phil at all? Berry. 17 MS. BERRY: Are we going to receive what you 18 just read us in hard copy? 19 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: The Finance Committee 20 has put a number of items together, including proposals to 21 this board regarding the release of information. They are 22 at the present time at the corporate attorney, and we are 23 waiting for that review back as to what should be released 24 and what shouldn't be. So at this point in time we are 25 giving this statement. If you would like a copy of this American Dairy Goat Association 95 1 statement, we can give that. I have got a couple of notes 2 I've just got to clean up on it, but, yes, I can make that 3 available. 4 MS. SAUM: Kempe. 5 MS. KEMPE: Could you at this point or maybe 6 -- you are coming back with another finance report later? 7 I don't know which is proper. Explain to everybody how it 8 affects liability? 9 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Why we believe this 10 action was taken is that perhaps one of the items alone 11 would not be a significant and potential liability, but 12 when you have the complete credit card number along with 13 the number of the holder of the card, the federal tax ID 14 number of the association, the offices of the association 15 published -- were on our website, and the fact that it was 16 on a public website could be a potential liability coming 17 from charges there. That's why we took the action and 18 cancelled the credit cards. 19 The other item dealing with vendor accounts 20 and invoices, if vendor invoices are still open and have 21 not been paid, the standard practice is you could contact 22 any one of these vendors and ask for an addition to that 23 invoice, so we needed to close those out. With the 24 Federal Express account number, anybody can ship anything 25 anywhere, so we needed to take action there. American Dairy Goat Association 96 1 The Pitney Bowes postage account has a 2 credit limit of over $20,000. All you need to do with 3 that information is contact Pitney Bowes and have postage 4 transferred to a postage account if you have that set up. 5 So we felt at this point in time that that amount of 6 information, including health insurance account numbers 7 and the like, we needed to take action to protect the 8 association from potential costs coming in. Does that 9 clarify it? 10 MS. KEMPE: Yes. 11 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Berry. 12 MS. BERRY: Okay. Maybe you indicated this, 13 but it wasn't clear to me. This meeting is one of our 14 more expensive things that we put on and use money and 15 credit for. Since this just happened, how are expenses 16 being paid for this event, as well as the second part of 17 that question is, as an appraiser I know there is a 18 potential for having trips very soon which would require 19 the use of credit cards, and are those going to be 20 reissued or what's going to happen with that? 21 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Let me take the first 22 question, first part of that question, which was how are 23 we dealing with here. As I stated and tried to make clear 24 is the fact that we have not cancelled Shirley McKenzie's 25 card. That number is a different number. It was not part American Dairy Goat Association 97 1 of the information that was posted on the public website. 2 We understand that we need to pay for this room and our 3 meals and our transactions at this hotel. So we felt that 4 we put a hold on everything except for Shirley's. We're 5 asking the bank to give us basically daily summaries of 6 what is coming through the account so that we can monitor 7 if there is anything that appears to be not one of our 8 charges and that we need to do that. 9 So Shirley's is the one that's maintained. 10 Everything else has all been either cancelled directly or 11 on hold waiting for that. We've asked all the appraisers 12 here, if they did have their cards in their possession, 13 we've asked them and everybody has agreed to give them 14 back. As far as the -- what's the second part? 15 MS. BERRY: The potential -- 16 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: The potential linear 17 appraisal. We can get the cards reissued, and we have 18 notified the bank that we will need to have cards 19 reissued, and you can have that done overnighted. At this 20 point nothing needs to happen in the next couple of days. 21 We need to make sure that the rest -- the priority right 22 now is to cancel those credit cards, notify the bank, 23 notify vendors to cancel accounts and establish new ones. 24 The issue this morning was to get the Federal Express 25 being the first one to have up and running so we can ship American Dairy Goat Association 98 1 things out of the office because at this point nothing is 2 moving that would be sent out as for that deal because we 3 don't have an account. We needed to close it. I hope 4 that answered your question. 5 Other questions? Strickland. 6 MS. STRICKLAND: Is our association 7 information now secure and no longer on the public 8 website? 9 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: I'm not aware of -- 10 I'm not aware of that. I don't know the status of that. 11 I'm not sure. I don't have that specific. I have not 12 been out there to check that. I have been working on 13 dealing with this. I don't know if it's up or not. You 14 -- well, Hendrickson. 15 MS. HENDRICKSON: At this time you have not 16 had any unusual charges or anything show up that would 17 have been from this incident, to your knowledge? 18 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: We have not to this 19 knowledge, but we have not received the cutoff of the 20 credit card statement from the bank, as soon as we receive 21 that, but at this point we have not. Campbell. 22 MS. CAMPBELL: As a point of information, 23 the information was available last evenning. I don't know 24 if it is this morning. Some of you may understand how 25 websites work so that you have a front page, and that American Dairy Goat Association 99 1 provides links to the rest of the website. You can insert 2 a page that does not have that link information and you 3 don't see the rest of that information, but it can still 4 be there, and I did notice that it was still there last 5 night. 6 Just a little further on the process of how 7 this information can be used, it may be nothing that any 8 of our members may use. A spidering system, if you will, 9 or software is available that allows the spammers and 10 fraudulent people in the world to obtain this type of 11 information by setting certain parameters for numbers and 12 looking for them and in security areas, so that's how 13 sometimes this type of information is obtained if it's not 14 in a password protected area. 15 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Berry. 16 MS. BERRY: Just a question. Because I had 17 a credit card from the association with -- including my 18 Social Security number as I am an employee of the 19 association and they have a great deal of personal 20 information for my taxes and so forth, is there any danger 21 of an identity theft being -- of my information possible 22 from what is on the website? 23 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: The short answer is 24 yes. Your name and your credit card, the entire number of 25 your credit card is there. American Dairy Goat Association 100 1 MS. BERRY: And my Social Security number? 2 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Your Social Security 3 number is not there. Rucker. 4 MR. RUCKER: Just as a financial standpoint 5 for ease of mind, I happen to work for Discover Card. The 6 financial liability on fraudulent charges by federal law 7 is a maximum of $50 per account as long as it is reported 8 within a timely manner. The "timely" is somewhat subject 9 to interpretation, but it's just generally if you do it 10 within 30 days of the receipt of the statement that has a 11 fraudulent charge you are not going to be held 12 responsible. So if someone did do this and charged up 13 10,000, 20,000, whatever, on these accounts, the maximum 14 liability to the association should be no more than $50. 15 Most cards as a competitive measure set that as zero 16 liability. 17 MS. SAUM: Anything else at this time? 18 Questions about what's transpired? 19 I forgot one other announcement someone 20 asked me to make. If you have a cell phone, I know some 21 of us do, if you could turn it to vibrate during the 22 meeting. Those of you in the audience, also, that would 23 be nice if you could do that for us. 24 Next on our list was IM report. We have 25 with us today Gary Moore, and we also have Bryan Lenihan, American Dairy Goat Association 101 1 who is our computer programmer. 2 (Applause.) 3 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Robin. I'm real 4 happy to be here today standing in for Bill. The last I 5 heard he was tangled up with a bonding machine back in 6 Michigan, something like that, either that or state 7 inspectors. 8 MR. RUCKER: Can't hear. 9 MR. MOORE: Can you hear me now? Just to 10 follow up a little bit, I just wanted to, if I may, say a 11 couple of things before we get into the business here; and 12 following up on what Daniel has said earlier this morning, 13 we're going to have a system to register Nigerians and 14 Sables on by January 5th. That's a pretty sure bet. 15 (Applause.) 16 MR. MOORE: We code named the system ROSS, 17 and if you as the board would like a different name, I'd 18 urge you to adopt one. It's amazing how many systems 19 there are in the world that a programmer somewhere just 20 named and that was it. So far I'm real pleased with the 21 way the system works and looks. It models the work flow 22 in the office much better than we have ever had before. 23 This is kind of a technical point, but it is 24 database-centric. In other words, the most valuable 25 resource, in my opinion, that ADGA owns is the data that's American Dairy Goat Association 102 1 in that database, and that's -- in terms of the system 2 design is the primary focus in an organization like ADGA. 3 We're going to have a lot stronger controls 4 over the data. We're going to have a lot better 5 integrity. We're going to have some real audit trails in 6 there, and Bryan has designed the system so it's going to 7 be pretty expansible and flexible. So the next time we 8 want to add a breed it should be a pretty easy process. 9 We're nearing acceptance of animal 10 maintenance and customer maintenance; and if I could let 11 you in on a little trade secret, programmers work real 12 good when they're hungry; and Bryan is getting near the 13 point of starvation; and he's working 80 hours a week; and 14 hopefully in the next week or two, we'll have acceptance 15 on that, on those two major modules; and then everything 16 after that should fall into place fairly quickly. 17 We're going to be downloading the system I 18 understand tomorrow around this time. Bryan and I, after 19 we're finished here, are going to go out and try to find 20 some more bailing wire, and we'll have a system up and 21 running for download tomorrow. That's about it in terms 22 of extensions to Bill's report. 23 I think it's important as you consider 24 budgeting for information technology that, given the 25 critical importance of information for ADGA, you should American Dairy Goat Association 103 1 always be prepared to spend the money. My preacher says 2 every Sunday, "The Lord loves a cheerful giver," and I 3 think 10 percent of total budget is kind of a benchmark 4 for an organization, information technology intensive 5 organization like ADGA, should be expected to spend on 6 information technology. And as we're moving forward, as 7 you'll see in the budget, we hope to have some web 8 services available out there for members this coming year; 9 and after that we've got a lot of other things in store 10 that folks I think would find useful. 11 MS. SAUM: Okay. We can share. Does 12 anybody have any preliminary questions for Gary? Dave 13 Daubert. 14 MR. DAUBERT: There are two parts of the 15 registration, which one is issuing the paper and the other 16 question is about bringing the historical data with that 17 registration, the pluses, the stars. Is that data -- and 18 I haven't been able to find anybody that tells me this, is 19 that data coming with the registration? 20 MR. MOORE: Certainly. Yeah. I mean, we're 21 not leaving any important data behind. Are we, Bryan? 22 MR. LENIHAN: No. 23 MR. DAUBERT: The reason I ask is when the 24 old system was brought in the decision was made by the 25 board not to bring that data, so I want to make sure that American Dairy Goat Association 104 1 everybody understands and it's clear that that data is 2 coming this time. When you register a Sable buck that has 3 never been registered before any place, that it is going 4 back and checking its parentage that if he is eligible for 5 a +B or a *B or ++B, all of that data is coming with the 6 animal. 7 MR. MOORE: Yeah. That's accounted for, 8 right, Bryan, on the conversions that you've done already? 9 MR. LENIHAN: Yes. 10 MR. MOORE: Yeah. It's there now as far as 11 I'm concerned. 12 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: You need to use a 13 microphone when you're answering so she can hear. 14 MS. SAUM: Rowe. 15 DR. ROWE: I apologize. I'm feeling a 16 little bit at a loss for appropriate questions because I 17 almost feel like I haven't had enough information to know 18 exactly which questions to ask. For example, a recent 19 issue that I know was discussed back and forth and I had 20 approached you is the additional identification fields; 21 and, you know, our changing needs beyond perhaps what is 22 resonant in the system. We have genetic awards and things 23 that will come further down the line. 24 I am looking at this priority and completed 25 date due sheet and that does give us some framework for American Dairy Goat Association 105 1 kind of temporally when other parts of the program may 2 come along, but I'm wondering if you could give us a 3 broader overview, and in a brief form, about sort of the 4 major elements; and, of course, you know, my strong 5 interest area is in the performance programs. 6 So the two issues there, sort of, you know, 7 when do you see these elements sort of becoming part of 8 the programming, when will you get to those modules, and 9 then also what has been the extent of involvement of our 10 new technical support person and performance programs and 11 how can we be assured that that person with such extensive 12 data familiarity can be a really integral part of 13 preplanning and not just on testing and so on. So I know 14 there is a multitude of broad questions, but I would feel 15 better if we could have a little more detail on the big 16 picture. 17 MR. MOORE: Okay. I'm a little hard of 18 hearing. I didn't quite catch the module that you -- the 19 production modules. 20 DR. ROWE: To clarify, my question was a 21 little more global. I was wondering if for the board if 22 we can have some idea, you know, we're registration now. 23 We have some dates here, but we know that we're still 24 working on some of the earlier parts of the program, and 25 so we're sort of wondering for shows and, you know, the American Dairy Goat Association 106 1 performance when -- you know, when those things you expect 2 them to be coming into consideration. 3 MR. MOORE: Well, our expectation is that 4 they will be part of the system come January 5. Am I 5 correct? 6 MR. LENIHAN: Yes. 7 MR. MOORE: And I don't know if you have 8 anything to add to that, Bryan. 9 MS. SAUM: I would just interject, I think 10 Joanie's real question is, is the whole system going to be 11 running on beginning of January, or is it just 12 registration? Am I right, Joanie? 13 DR. ROWE: Yes. 14 MR. MOORE: The plan is yes. 15 MS. SAUM: And then her second question was, 16 was Lisa going to be involved and are the data fields 17 being considered? The data fields, yes, Linda has been 18 involved with the working group with goats on the National 19 ID program. I think you wanted four fields, am I right, 20 on the four fields, and Bryan and Lisa have been working 21 together definitely. 22 MR. MOORE: Yeah. We just had a round on 23 the ID issue, and we're planning for -- how many is it? 24 Four or five, six? 25 MR. LENIHAN: The way the system is designed American Dairy Goat Association 107 1 right now, I only have one field in the system; but as 2 Gary was telling you, I developed the system in a class 3 base structure. I don't want to get too technical on you, 4 but basically adding a field is basically just adding a 5 field to the database and putting it on the screen. So 6 when Linda gets me the list of all the fields she wants to 7 be able to capture, I literally just add to the database 8 and add it to the screen. 9 MR. MOORE: That should be, what, about an 10 hour's time? 11 MR. LENIHAN: Yeah. 12 MR. MOORE: Depending on the indexing and 13 all that. 14 MS. CAMPBELL: And explain you can query on 15 those. 16 MR. MOORE: Yes, and you can query on those. 17 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: I'm going to follow up 18 on Joanie Rowe's question by asking the reverse one. What 19 will not be complete at January 5th regarding this new 20 system? What will still left to be -- need to be done as 21 of the first of the year on the system? 22 MR. MOORE: There's a pretty good chance 23 that the full reporting modules will not be complete. 24 Bryan, do you want to explain what you mean 25 by -- he's got a design that's kind of complicated, but... American Dairy Goat Association 108 1 MR. LENIHAN: Basically, it is going a 2 little bit slower than I expected, and my goal right now 3 is to get to core functionality of everything in. The 4 things that I foresee that aren't going to be ready come 5 January 3rd, 4th, or 5th -- I can't remember which is the 6 Monday -- are things like in office reporting, things like 7 the membership directory might not be ready to be printed 8 on January 5th because that doesn't need to be printed 9 till February or March, from what I understand. The next 10 Format 1, am I correct, isn't until the end of January? 11 MS. SHEPARD: No, we need to do that in 12 December. 13 MR. LENIHAN: Okay. Well, that will be in 14 the old system in December, but after that the next Format 15 1 is not due for a little bit so that's kind of, you know, 16 in a different -- so I got everything basically 17 prioritized with what has to be done on January 3rd, and 18 all that stuff will be completed, and then there is a few 19 office things that won't be completed. 20 MS. SAUM: Senn. 21 MS. SENN: I think we're all kind of looking 22 -- not all, but some of us are looking around a little 23 confused at each other trying to figure out. Perhaps we 24 don't have something that actually outlines that to 25 explain it. We'd like to see something in the format of American Dairy Goat Association 109 1 an outline in writing so we can refer to it and perhaps we 2 could ask the appropriate questions. What specific things 3 will be taken care of, you know, on the registration 4 paper, everything included, what will not come through on 5 that will be production data, possibly, and what would 6 cause the issue and what -- and take it in each step so 7 that we understand how it's going to impact us. 8 Then the next thing would be when you say "a 9 few things in the office," does it affect things that will 10 have to be in a recording, that have to be in the 11 registration only, or is it only the types of reports that 12 we use that for now or another kind of reporting. I'm not 13 sure of all of the things that are entailed and what the 14 process is that you're doing right now, and I'm not asking 15 for all the total detail, but I would like to know like 16 by -- 17 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Two seconds. She 18 needs to change her tape. 19 MS. SAUM: Okay. All right. Beginning of 20 January, whatever that Monday is, you will be able to 21 register any animal; and everything will be on that paper, 22 all their production, all their performance programs that 23 they participate, that paper will be intact just like it 24 is with ARMS. The only thing that won't be is what 25 they're predicting are like in-house reports that need to American Dairy Goat Association 110 1 be generated, and we'll ask them, they're here all day 2 today and tomorrow, so perhaps now and tomorrow you can 3 come up with a list of things that you feel won't be ready 4 the beginning of January that we will be using. Is that 5 good enough? Rowe. 6 DR. ROWE: Yeah, I think for me I'm having 7 trouble converting over from the known problems in ARMS 8 that we were dealing with; and I understand this is a new 9 system, so I appreciate that; but that makes it difficult 10 for me to appreciate, for example, in what form will our 11 pedigree reports be. You know, not the registration 12 certificate and the process of registration, but the other 13 functions in our performance programs, performance 14 pedigrees, et cetera. One-day test results, those kind of 15 things. Owner sampler for, you know, star volume owner 16 sampler. 17 MR. MOORE: Well, the baseline is that we're 18 going to replicate what's there now, and I would suggest 19 if you want any changes, now is the time to present us 20 with some feedback. And I have a demo that you'll see 21 tomorrow. The demo might be useful in kind of making 22 things a little more concrete for you. 23 MS. SAUM: Daubert. 24 MR. DAUBERT: We have a list that we 25 received sometime this year, and it has priority, percent American Dairy Goat Association 111 1 completed, date due. We never received anything that says 2 percent completed. Some of these things are past the date 3 that we had projected. Is this the list that Bryan is 4 working from? How does this relate to what we're talking 5 about? 6 And the second part to that is there's an 7 awful lot of things that are not on this list that we've 8 talked about for 10 years that have never been done, and I 9 don't ever -- have never seen a list of those things that 10 we approved that have to be done. Superior genetics is 11 one. That's not on this list, but how does that fit into 12 what we're doing? 13 MS. SAUM: I think if you find there's 14 things that aren't on that list that you feel the board 15 has approved, you need to give us that list, and now is 16 the time to get that list to Bryan and to Gary to be done. 17 What? I can't hear you, Dave. I'm sorry. 18 Use your microphone. Rowe. 19 MS. BERRY: We've done that. 20 DR. ROWE: This could clarify that. 21 Specifically what I had in mind is the "Known Problems on 22 ARMS" document that we have received. 23 MR. MOORE: That's really invalid. I mean, 24 that list no longer is relevant. 25 DR. ROWE: Except that as you explain, as I American Dairy Goat Association 112 1 understood, I understood that you were replicating these 2 other programs. 3 MR. MOORE: We're not replicating bugs. 4 DR. ROWE: No, but I guess what's unclear to 5 me is if we have something existing and you're writing a 6 new one, we want some assurances some of the specific 7 issues that were cited here are incorporated in the new 8 program. 9 MR. MOORE: Well, we'll certainly review 10 that list one more time. 11 MR. LENIHAN: I was also going to put in 12 there that known list of bugs in ARMS, I'm replicating 13 work flow processes that I see. I started from scratch 14 when I did the program. I haven't even looked at the ARMS 15 source code. I don't look at the ARMS program except for 16 to go in and make sure that my data results are correct. 17 I'm doing everything strictly by the 18 handbook and by Shirley and the office staff, so a lot of 19 those bugs that you have listed in that, I'm unaware of. 20 I mean, I'm aware of that list, but a lot of them are 21 programming issues, and I'm not replicating the ARMS 22 program. I'm replicating the work flow at the office. 23 MS. CAMPBELL: I think what I'm hearing is 24 there's a list of things that the board has done in the 25 past years. We've approved some processes that were never American Dairy Goat Association 113 1 implemented because we couldn't do it with the old system, 2 and I think Lisa has a pretty good handle on that 3 information, and she's the appropriate person to be able 4 to provide that feedback to make sure it gets included 5 because we certainly want to be able to have a system that 6 incorporates everything that we have approved up to date, 7 and we know we'll make changes later, but I think that was 8 the intent of the board that that be included, correct? 9 MS. SHEPARD: Yeah. 10 MS. CAMPBELL: Thank you. 11 MR. MOORE: I'm satisfied that Lisa is in 12 the loop here. 13 MS. SAUM: Shepard. 14 MS. SHEPARD: Yes, but I am awaiting the 15 time that we are able to address the list that we have 16 given to the Information Management Committee on some of 17 those new programs. We haven't been able to do that yet, 18 and I have been told that as we move along in the system 19 that that will be an opportunity that will be coming up. 20 MS. SAUM: Everybody should have a copy of 21 the IM Committee report. There's some on the second page, 22 decisions requiring board actions. We can do one of two 23 things. We can either go through this list and vote on it 24 now. The IM Committee is coming back tomorrow with a demo 25 and more information. We can wait until tomorrow after American Dairy Goat Association 114 1 you've done the demonstration and had time to talk to 2 these two gentlemen during the day today and tomorrow and 3 then vote on it. 4 That's what I would recommend, but it's up 5 to you. Altheide. 6 MR. ALTHEIDE: I would move that we wait 7 until tomorrow to consider these issues. 8 MS. SAUM: Anderson, second that? Anybody 9 want to speak to that? All in favor of waiting until 10 tomorrow for these decisions requiring board action say 11 "aye." 12 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 13 MS. SAUM: Anyone opposed? (None.) 14 Abstentions? (None.) 15 Okay. Does anybody have any more questions 16 right now for either one of these gentlemen? You're going 17 to be around the hotel today? 18 MR. MOORE: Yes. Bryan and I -- Bryan I 19 think is probably going to be putting some bailing wire 20 together for the demo tomorrow, but I'll be around, and 21 I'm particularly interested in hearing about what we've 22 heard today about potential problems that are things that 23 we missed and so on and so forth, any concerns, so thanks 24 a lot. 25 MR. KORHONEN: I'd like to follow up on American Dairy Goat Association 115 1 Dave's comment, and if we could see this June report that 2 was put out to us, if we could see the percent completed, 3 call them completed. It's got the due dates on the right 4 side, projects on the left, and the blank for percent 5 completed as the date due. 6 MR. MOORE: Yes. That sounds like a good 7 idea to do that. Bryan and I can get together and do that 8 this afternoon. We just we need a copy. Yes, that's a 9 useful thing to do. 10 MS. SAUM: Thank you. Okay. Next is going 11 to be Phil is going to come up and give us the preliminary 12 Finance report. 13 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Okay. Good morning. 14 A couple of you are still waiting there. We're passing 15 out copies. There's an addendum to the actual financial 16 report. There are two revision documents in there as 17 well. One is the actual budget, which you received from 18 me; and if you didn't receive it electronically, it was 19 included in the packet the other night. It was a draft 20 that was put together, and the Finance Committee has met 21 and have made changes to those. 22 Also, those changes affected the cash flow, 23 and I've given you a little -- included in there is kind 24 of a cheat sheet of changes to the draft, so that you 25 don't have to go through. Those changes are specific American Dairy Goat Association 116 1 proposals coming from the Finance Committee, but at this 2 point what we're going to do is I want to walk through 3 that preliminary so we can discuss what's there, wait till 4 it gets around, wait until the information gets around. 5 Some of the material that was originally 6 sent to you that was in the package, we will be still 7 using. The two pieces that are replaced were the actual 8 budget and the cash flow. 9 First I would like to thank the members of 10 the Finance Committee. It has been a great committee. 11 Everybody does respond. It's a committee that works real 12 well from that end. We did meet here for a significant 13 number of hours; but in addition to that, I really would 14 like to thank Charlotte Sankey for accompanying me to the 15 office and doing the work and certainly to Shirley 16 McKenzie while we were there and our continuous list of 17 demands. They did keep going. 18 I have two little side notes. The next time 19 I invite Charlotte I'm going to put a timekeeper on her. 20 I wanted to stop at 10:30 at night, and she kept me going 21 until a quarter of 12:00. This lady just has tons of 22 energy. I don't know where she gets it. And the other 23 thing is the next time we have to do something about 24 eating because she doesn't want to take -- to stop at 25 night for dinner. So when we worked until 8:30 and kept American Dairy Goat Association 117 1 Shirley that long my response to Charlotte was, "We've got 2 to let Shirley get something to eat." I didn't make it 3 personal, but we had to let Shirley get something to eat. 4 The other item that we did that was 5 mentioned earlier and I'll go over at this time which is 6 part of the financial information are the repairs to the 7 office. 8 The first thing, for those of you who have 9 been there, that Charlotte and I did was when we walked in 10 the floor didn't move. There was no two-inch drop when 11 you stepped in and you kind of had that little gasp when 12 the floor is giving away underneath you. The office looks 13 very nice. The work, I think, is quality work and in some 14 ways has been long overdue, for those of you have been to 15 the office, I'm not sure if you're aware of that, but it's 16 a very professional looking office. 17 Okay. If we can start I'm going to walk 18 through fairly slowly. I know we're headed towards lunch, 19 but I don't want to beam through some of the tough 20 difficult stuff right after lunch because you guys will 21 have to listen to me drone on, so let's see if we can 22 cover it. I'm just going to cover them briefly. The ones 23 that you're looking at are the new ones coming out on the 24 budget. 25 To start with that, I'm going to walk you American Dairy Goat Association 118 1 through what it was and where it is now. You're going to 2 see in the upper righthand corner, "Revised October 26th, 3 2004." That is what is the approved budget coming to you 4 from Finance Committee. It contains two changes from what 5 was originally sent under the income section, and we will 6 get those proposals. There is a change in registration 7 income, and there's a change in miscellaneous income. So 8 if you have been working with the documents, those are the 9 only two income changes that were done, and we will cover 10 them in detail. 11 And on the expense side there is a number of 12 changes; however, they're really in just two accounts, 13 three accounts. They should have been salaries and wages, 14 and there's recommendations coming both from the Finance 15 Committee and from the EC. There is also a change to 16 personnel expense, and there was a change down under the 17 data processing expense. And I'll cover just that last 18 one, the data processing, the IM committee report just 19 given to you is, actually -- I received a draft upfront 20 and it had an estimate in there of $24,000, which is what 21 we put in into the budget. Actually when the committee 22 worked with Bryan for ongoing maintenance it's $18,000, 23 and you'll see that in the IM committee report. 24 Remember what Finance Committee does. If 25 there's a request coming from committee, it basically American Dairy Goat Association 119 1 automatically goes into the budget. It pretty much rolls 2 right on through. You will see those requests for money 3 in the individual -- in the individual committees, and you 4 can either vote those up or down. They're basically in 5 here. So, for instance, products request, $7,000. That's 6 what goes in the budget from that end. Exactly, and then 7 the board, whether it passes or not, and we'll deal with 8 the revisions at the end. 9 The second document that I just want to 10 follow through and I want to spend a little time -- we'll 11 come back to the budget and focus on, if there are 12 questions, but I just want to look because I want you to 13 understand the big picture first and then we'll come back 14 in and focus in on the narrow. 15 The second item is the revised cash flow. I 16 want to spend a little time there because there are some 17 issues that I want to bring to your attention. And on the 18 first five columns deals with actuals. Our actual changes 19 and beginning cash balance starting the beginning January 20 1st -- in the January 1st, 2000, and then in the 2000 21 column gives you net income. That's back depreciation. 22 Changes in receivable and payables, and what those are. 23 Purchases of equipment to come to ending balance, and the 24 trend there is the fact that when we are spending 25 significant amounts for purchase of equipment and/or American Dairy Goat Association 120 1 software, computer software, breaks like 2000, 2001, our 2 cash balances were off. 3 And if you look at 2000, 2001, that's why 4 they were done, significant moneys spent in purchase of 5 equipment and software. 2002, no money spent on 6 purchases. 2003, as Daniel said upfront or originally in 7 his opening remarks, 2 -- almost 23,000 has been expended 8 to date, the initial payment under the Orix contract and 9 some purchases of equipment under the IM committee issues. 10 2004, I mean, let's keep walking on. 2004, 11 there are some items there. The 21,000 is what we paid, 12 plus the 27, and in addition is building improvements of 13 $43,800. Those are two things that can -- that are 14 capitalized; that is, the ceiling work that was done and 15 the floor. 16 The issue with capitalization as opposed to 17 expense is that you can capitalize items that either have 18 a significant useful life, extending the life of the 19 building, and that's really where it's at. So it's one of 20 the issues that you can, you know, extend that useful life 21 or that has a significant value increase in increasing the 22 value of the property. 23 When it comes over to carpeting and in 24 discussion I felt that I was clear that that is something 25 that doesn't extend the life of the building, that doesn't American Dairy Goat Association 121 1 add significant value. We might think it does. Nice 2 carpeting is nice carpeting, but it really needed to be 3 expensed. We contacted the outside auditor, full 4 agreement, and his opinion was it needed to be expensed. 5 So you will see some changes in the 2004 budget when we 6 deal with what actually went, because there is $10,000 7 worth of items, that carpeting for 10,000 was expensed in 8 2004, and the ceiling and the floor has been capitalized, 9 and we depreciate it over a period of time. That leaves a 10 balance at the end of September, 434,000. 11 One of Charlotte's jobs when she was down 12 there was to actually inspect the outside third party 13 individual bank statements, CDs, to make sure that we can 14 report to the board that that actual amount of cash does 15 exist, and it does exist, did all of that detail work. 16 I need to work you then through the next two 17 -- last two columns, which is the projected. Our revised 18 2004 forecast projects a 60,000-dollar loss. If you take 19 our profits to date, you're going to see a third quarter 20 loss of 193,000. Part of that is the fact that we have a 21 current up-to-date office. Shirley wanted to make sure 22 that there was no delays in convention registration, and 23 they recorded all of the annual meeting or a significant 24 part of what they had received to date of annual meeting 25 income in September. No expenses up against it, and American Dairy Goat Association 122 1 arriving at 40,000 plus in income. So when you look at 2 the number you're really combining what is under that 3 second line net income. It's through September, and then 4 the loss for the fourth quarter, but September is 5 overstated through September because of the annual meeting 6 income for registration is in there. 7 We project that the third quarter -- the 8 fourth quarter will have depreciation, so we're going to 9 add that back, another 23,000, and then based on what 10 Bryan and Gary and Bill Marshall are telling us, that the 11 system will be functioning, you know, complete, that there 12 will be another 55,000 paid out. I put that in the fourth 13 quarter. It leaves a final payment under the original 14 contract that we do not expect because it won't be 15 complete, and that's the 19,000 that's coming in 2005. 16 Finance Committee needs to be conservative. 17 We've said we're going to pay it all off this year. The 18 sign-offs, you know, we're saying they will be ready 19 January 1, but all the sign-offs need to be done before we 20 actually pay the check. The check gets actually sent in 21 January, but we've put it in through December to make sure 22 we're conservative. 23 That will give us a cash balance at the end 24 of this year for approximately 208,000. Next year's 25 estimated projected loss, 106,000, which includes the American Dairy Goat Association 123 1 write-off of the balance of the ARMS system, which will 2 then be useless and no longer being used. We're going to 3 add back depreciation, 45,000, add back that write-off of 4 ARMS of 77,000 because they're noncash items; and down 5 under the capital items there are the items coming out of 6 the IM committee, which is $10,000 for the purchase of a 7 high speed multi-paper tray printer, estimated cost 8 $10,000. The online query and online registration and 9 data query of 50,000, and the workstation upgrades to get 10 all stations in the office up to the same level, bringing 11 the new system on, estimate of 15,000. I'm sure that Gary 12 Moore and Bryan can answer specific questions on the IM 13 committee requests tomorrow. 14 If our assumptions are all correct, at the 15 end of 2005 our cash balance would be approximately 16 130,000, significantly less than where we are right now. 17 We are spending -- you know, we have a hundred 18 thousand-dollar contract currently with Orix. We're 19 looking at another 50,000 for online registration, another 20 10,000 for the printer. You add all that up, and there is 21 a reduction there. That's the big picture. 22 At this time what I would plan on doing is 23 dealing with some of the income assumptions and expense 24 assumptions, if that's okay after the budget. I did send 25 you a listing of what those were. I don't plan on going American Dairy Goat Association 124 1 through all of them unless there are specific questions. 2 Hendrickson. 3 MS. HENDRICKSON: The write-off of ARMS, is 4 that all -- excuse me, is that all of the write-off or is 5 there another year's worth of depreciation? Will this be 6 the last year we have this write-off on the old system? 7 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Correct. This is the 8 last year, and in the meeting a week ago I informed 9 clearly as the Finance Committee chair to Daniel and to 10 Bill Marshall when they said the system will be ready at 11 the end of December, I said, "Oh, no, it won't. It's 12 going to be January 1st." No, the system for tax purposes 13 will be ready and operational January, so yes, the 2004 14 depreciation is the last year for the ARMS system, as 15 effective January 2nd when ROSS comes into place, the 16 balance needs to be written off. 17 That is not the total balance of computer 18 software that's on our balance sheet. We were still using 19 the National Show program, and the National Show program, 20 part of that depreciation will continue, but as far as the 21 ARMS piece, that is done. That is the balance. As of the 22 end of this year, that's all that's left on this system. 23 That part of it. Now, there is some computer hardware 24 items passed that we are not expensing off because we are 25 still using those, but the software piece, this is the American Dairy Goat Association 125 1 last full year. The balance is approximately 77,000, and 2 we will write that off. Other questions at this point? 3 Okay. 4 The income side, we prepared a revised 5 budget for 2004. We've given you some information there. 6 Actual 2003 -- actual 2003 through September, 2004 through 7 September, so you have some information to compare to, 8 2004 budget, and then the revised. You'll notice the 9 revised in total is not -- is really only $5,000 less than 10 the original budgeting. There is changes. We certainly 11 noticed our registration numbers are down approximately 12 600. Those of you on the director list have had some 13 conversation about why those issues are. Our membership 14 once again is not maintaining. There is some reduction 15 there, or we should say it's about approximate what it 16 was. 17 Last year's increase in the budget was 18 incorrect, so we're doing some adjustments there, and the 19 other items are straightforward. The significant one, of 20 course, is the National Show, and we just did a tremendous 21 year as far as income, and that's kind of balancing it. 22 Are there any specific questions on the revised 2004 23 income section? 24 Great. On the expense side, let's stay with 25 revised 2004. Let's go back to that sheet and why we American Dairy Goat Association 126 1 believe our original 92,000 loss will come in more at 60. 2 Part of that, as we said, is the National Show and the 3 income at the top and the expenses which were forecasted, 4 which is basically right online. There was a reduction in 5 the expense on the salary side in the fact that we did not 6 have an entire full year employees working in specific 7 areas and decided to contract out some of that work. 8 The other item is that there was a 9 significant reduction in show rosette cost by -- we will 10 continue this year. You'll notice that that number is 11 down significantly, some $8,000 reduction in what we have 12 been spending there. The other item to bring to your 13 attention, and we've had some discussion with that, is on 14 supplies and printing. At the end of 2003 we were out of 15 a number of forms, a number of issues that needed to be 16 purchased. We purchased in significant bulk, a couple of 17 years worth at a time, in order to get the lowest possible 18 rate. So we do not envision and we know from working with 19 Shirley that those will not need to be purchased in 2004, 20 and some of those won't need to be purchased in 2005 21 either. So we are looking at those expenses and 22 reductions of those. 23 The other item that I did for you, and I 24 know there was some confusion, is I broke out the other 25 administrative. For me, a one-line "other administrative American Dairy Goat Association 127 1 56,000" is just unacceptable. We've got to get down to 2 giving you some more detail. So I gave you some detail 3 there, being what is legal and accounting. We have 4 changed over the title, that it's bank and merchant 5 processing fees. These are the fees that we pay when we 6 accept credit cards. More and more people are paying with 7 credit cards, so those fees have risen, and we believe 8 will continue to rise. 9 The other item there was the tax piece of 10 it, we're giving that to you because North Carolina has 11 changed their laws. Used to be tax exempt as a nonprofit, 12 you didn't have to pay the tax. Now what has to happen is 13 you actually pay the tax and you apply to the state for a 14 refund. So you pay now, then you wait until the end of 15 the year and you put in an application. They drag it out 16 for payment to return you your money. That to me sounds 17 like they're using people's money, and it's a way for the 18 state to gain some interest there. 19 And then business insurance separated out. 20 That does still leave an amount under "other 21 administrative" items that are all kinds of little items 22 that come in there, and there is still a budget there, but 23 I did break those out because it's becoming too big. 24 So we believe in looking at it that our 25 revised budget will come in at about a 60,000-dollar loss American Dairy Goat Association 128 1 for the year, noting that of that loss approximately 2 $95,000 is depreciation. 3 Questions on that specific part of the 4 budget? Great. I hope you're following with me, and 5 we'll just go through these. I'd like to go back to the 6 income side and take a look at the proposed 2005 budget. 7 We have made the following assumptions. Some of those are 8 out there. I'm not going to cover all of them, but let's 9 cover the big ones. We have had a relatively stable 10 membership. If anything, it's slipped somewhat. I mean, 11 it is slipping relative as far as income has been there. 12 We don't believe we can forecast any real increase. 13 The increase that is in there is there is a 14 proposal from the Finance Committee. It was a part of the 15 addendum that is coming up here for increase in 16 registration fees of one dollar in every category, a 17 dollar increase in every category, whether it's member, 18 nonmember, whether it's female or male. Every category 19 would increase a dollar and that we would still continue 20 with the rush season fee of an additional dollar above our 21 normal registration fee. 22 The proposal is that that would take effect 23 not at the first of the year, but it would take effect 24 April 1, giving the members the time to be aware. the 25 News & Events comes out late as far as by the time the American Dairy Goat Association 129 1 actions of this board are summarized into News & Events, 2 gets mailed, people receive them. If they took effect 3 January 1, they might not have it in advance. 4 The other item that we did deal with is 5 transfers; and, you know, transfer volume, the increase in 6 transfers is due to increase in volume. We're going to 7 talk about registration, but if you're looking at your 8 other items as far as the increase, the Finance Committee 9 is presenting to the board for consideration an increase 10 in transfer fees for those that are not done within 120 11 days of sale. If you register, the same 350 would stay in 12 place if you do the registration -- you do the transfer 13 basically within, you know, immediately after the sale, 14 within 120 days. If it goes beyond that, we're moving it 15 to a -- increasing it to a $5 rate. 16 A number of bonuses with that. It's used in 17 other registries to keep your registry current. So if 18 somebody is contacting the registry for animal 19 identification issues, we then have hopefully a more 20 accurate ownership of those animals, and there is an 21 encouragement for them to transfer immediately after sale. 22 We don't really expect any increase in income from that. 23 Most people we believe do transfer relatively quickly. It 24 will affect some, and if the members are aware it's going 25 to be higher, hopefully they will do it upfront. Berry. American Dairy Goat Association 130 1 MS. BERRY: Just a question on the 2 registration projection. There should be a number of 3 reregistrations coming in for the Nigerians from AGS and a 4 number of revisions coming in for the Sables moving from 5 experimentals to the Sable herd book. Was that projected 6 in this amount? 7 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Yes. The increase is 8 two pieces, 30,000 for registration income, the dollar per 9 additional animals, if you take the number of 10 registrations done from April 1st through the end of year 11 is about 30,000. The other increase comes from taking 12 into account the reregistration of Nigerians. We assumed 13 a thousand, was based on discussion with some Nigerian 14 breeders of what they were going to do, along with 15 discussion with Tom Rucker who I called from the office 16 and said, "Give us some help here." 17 We were comfortable in saying a thousand 18 reregistrations and 600 initial registrations, and that is 19 included in that number. The reregistration is at the $10 20 fee if it's done before April 1st. That's another reason 21 why the Finance Committee wanted to give, you know, the 22 Nigerian goat breeders an opportunity to reregister 23 without any increase in fee for them coming here and then 24 the initial registrations of 600. That is built into your 25 number. American Dairy Goat Association 131 1 MS. BERRY: I just asked because I have been 2 treading water. I have been asked this question a 3 thousand times; and I have been, you know, trying to tell 4 people the decisions would be made here, so I'm really 5 relieved to hear that you took that into consideration. 6 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: And if the board 7 thinks that the number is going to be significantly 8 different than that, they could make a motion to change 9 this budget. We believe -- we believe it's a comfortable 10 projection. We don't think that it's way overstated or 11 understated. It is less than what we originally through 12 some of the proposals thought we might see in an initial 13 year, but we think that a thousand is a correct number. 14 Berry. 15 MS. BERRY: And you used the figure of $3 16 for revision, for revising from the experimental to the 17 Sables, to the Sable herd books? 18 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: We included nothing. 19 We did not do that. We did not take that into account. 20 We're unsure -- I'm unsure of the number. We're unsure of 21 the amount. We felt conservative not to include it. 22 MS. BERRY: But a decision will be made here 23 on how much that's going to cost, because that's one of 24 the questions I continually am asked, "How much is it 25 going to cost for us to revise the experimental American Dairy Goat Association 132 1 certificates over to the Sable herd book?" 2 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Right. There is no 3 change. Unless somebody is going to propose a change, 4 there would not be a change. 5 MS. BERRY: It would be $3. 6 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Exactly. 7 MS. BERRY: That's what I thought. 8 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Hang on. Rucker first 9 and then.... 10 MR. RUCKER: With looking at your proposed 11 increase, we've seen a slight decrease, looks like, in 12 registrations. With the increase in fees did you 13 anticipate any further decrease, that people may choose 14 not to register animals because it's becoming more 15 expensive to do so? 16 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: No, we did not. We 17 felt that the dollar increase was not -- wasn't 18 unreasonable since the fee increases have not -- or the 19 fees have not increased since 1992. There was the initial 20 dollar last year. If you take a look, we're at 600 behind 21 it. There may be some reduction, but we don't believe a 22 significant one. Reyna, then Petersen. 23 MS. REYNA: I think one of the most unpoplar 24 things that we've ever done is raise -- put this surcharge 25 in during this time of the year. I understand the reason American Dairy Goat Association 133 1 for it, but I think that it penalizes members in a number 2 of ways who want to show. I mean, as far as I'm 3 concerned, that just delayed all my registrations till 4 they were 24 months old, but people were really unhappy 5 about this because this is show season, and they want to 6 get their animals registered. 7 I think instead we should -- if we're going 8 to raise them a dollar, I think we should give them a 9 dollar discount during the off season rather than make it 10 higher for them during the season when they are getting 11 all the kids, and I do think it will result in a decrease 12 in registrations. I really do, or at least delay them for 13 a very long time. 14 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Petersen. 15 MS. PETERSEN: You guys should know my 16 question. I would like to know for sure, are we going to 17 vote on all of these items separately, or are they going 18 to rolled into the budget? 19 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: The Finance Committee 20 presents the budget for your consideration. It is up to 21 the board to decide whether they want to vote on it in 22 total or individually. That's not my call as the 23 committee chair. It's the board's decision, but they are 24 presented individually. They are presented individually 25 in those items when we look at recommendations, but the American Dairy Goat Association 134 1 board could move to accept all of them together. It's 2 what the board decides to do. That's not a committee 3 decision. Daubert. 4 MR. DAUBERT: I need to know from a 5 historical perspective, why does it cost $6.50 to register 6 a doe, but $10 to register a doe that is already 7 registered at AGS, coming into our system from AGS? Is 8 there some historical reason why that was done? Why does 9 it cost more? 10 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: We did address that 11 issue. I'm going to ask Shirley McKenzie to give you the 12 specifics, but that was raised when we were down there a 13 week ago. 14 MS. McKENZIE: It does take extra time to 15 register those because you do have to do some research, 16 pull the manual files. We even have to go to the old 17 timey typewriter sometimes. We have to type in the AGS 18 sire or dam that may not be on file with us. So it is 19 extra work, and that's why we do charge the extra fee. 20 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Hendrickson. 21 MS. HENDRICKSON: I know it was asked on the 22 directors list, but I may have missed it because I was 23 gone for several days before convention started. Did you 24 ever break out the numbers of registrations that were done 25 after April 1st, that were charged the extra dollar as a American Dairy Goat Association 135 1 separate item of income? I mean, just out of curiosity, 2 how many actually paid an extra dollar this year versus if 3 we hadn't asked for that extra dollar? 4 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Okay. Pat, if you go 5 to what was originally sent or provided in the packet the 6 other night, if you didn't get it off the website, there 7 is a spreadsheet called "Dollar Increase Analysis." And 8 to provide very specific information, the system does 9 not -- does not provide an exact dollar amount, an exact 10 number of registrations. What we did is presented for you 11 the number of registrations for 2003 and the number of 12 transfers by month, the number for 2004, and the 13 differences. 14 We made some assumptions. There was a 15 number of communications back and forth. I think that we 16 all agreed in the discussion that it was at least 20,000, 17 could be as much as 21,000, but somewhere 20 to 21,000 18 registrations were processed at that extra dollar. 19 The other item to note there, and I 20 understand, I did hear Shari's comment. Now I'm looking 21 at it from the business side of operations. Any time you 22 can level off your workload, it should increase 23 efficiency. It certainly resulted in less costs that we 24 did not pay any registration people overtime this past 25 year in 2004 to keep the same turnaround time, and we also American Dairy Goat Association 136 1 were able to use temporary help less. Is it significant? 2 6-, $7,000 in expense. It is a reduction. 3 There was an incentive. When you 4 incentivize people to do something, you know, money does 5 talk; and there was a leveling off; and if you look at the 6 number of registrations processed by month, you won't see 7 that real big steep peak. It will be a little more level. 8 I did hear the other issues of, you know, people having 9 that increase during that period of time, but that is 10 there, so, Pat, your answer is somewhere 20- to 21,000. 11 Strickland. 12 MS. STRICKLAND: My other concern in 13 addition to what Shari was saying with the one dollar fee 14 is that if we really want to treat all members equally, if 15 you look at different breeds, certainly there are 16 different times of the year they are more likely to kid. 17 There's different parts of the country where the kidding 18 season is different than others. So there is that 19 disparity because of the kind of a membership and because 20 of where we're located and what breeds we have as to 21 whether you are more likely to be registering during that 22 service fee time or not; and I was wondering if there was 23 any consideration within the Finance Committee of looking 24 at a registration fee based on numbers of days or of age 25 of the animal, similar to if you transfer within this many American Dairy Goat Association 137 1 days, it's this much money, and if it's longer in terms of 2 perhaps still evening out the workload, but giving more 3 equity to all members and the breeds and their geographic 4 locations. 5 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: There was information 6 transferred back and forth; and the concern there, if you 7 allow it within a period of time of birth, since they're 8 seasonal and there's certainly a peak, that you are not 9 going to level it out, that if you're saying to members 10 that it's been whatever number of days, 30, 60, 90 days of 11 freshening, that they will follow the breeding season and 12 will register during that period of time, and you're not 13 going to level it off. 14 What you would do if somebody doesn't do it 15 in that end would then extend it out, so perhaps the 16 general discussion was it would lower the, you know, July, 17 August kind of work, but that initial workload upfront, 18 the April, May, June, if you're allowing a period of time, 19 60, 90 days to register at that lower rate, you would not 20 level it off. So there was no specific action within 21 Finance Committee to change anything other than the rush 22 season proposal that's coming before you, but there 23 certainly was discussion at that level, and there was 24 discussion on an e-mail as well about that. So not only 25 part of giving here but as a Finance Committee we don't American Dairy Goat Association 138 1 see it leveling off, but, you know, it's up to the 2 decision of the board what action they're going to take. 3 Robin has nudged me two or three times on 4 the fact that lunch is supposed to be served right at 5 noontime. We are like a quarter past at this point, and I 6 don't know if -- I don't know if this is enough 7 information that you have on the budget, you can deal with 8 and you want to come back. There are some cost analysis 9 we have not discussed and other information there that has 10 been provided to you in advance. It's really what the 11 board wants, but I'm not sure if there is -- if you want 12 to go through the entire cost analysis and the other 13 details that were provided to you, then I'm not sure we 14 can get that done within the next three or four minutes so 15 that we would then have to come back with that. If you're 16 comfortable that we've covered enough at this point then 17 we can go to lunch and start with something else after. 18 Gustafson. 19 MS. GUSTAFSON: I make a motion that we 20 recess for lunch and come back to the financial report. 21 MS. SAUM: Is there a second to Marsha's? 22 Reyna. All those in favor of recessing until after lunch 23 for finance say "aye." 24 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 25 MS. SAUM: Any opposed? (None.) Any American Dairy Goat Association 139 1 abstentions? (None.) 2 We'll see you in an hour, and they said that 3 lunch is straight across the hall, is what Joan 4 Vandergriff just told me. 5 (Recess from 12:09 p.m. to 1:24 p.m.) 6 MS. SAUM: I think all of us are here. 7 We'll do a quick roll call, and Lelia wants to pass some 8 papers out to you, and she's going to come to the 9 microphone and then we will continue with the Finance 10 preliminary report, so we'll do the role call. Cassette. 11 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Here. 12 MS. SAUM: Phil Cassette. Sorry. Sankey. 13 MS. SANKEY: Here. 14 MS. SAUM: Anderson. 15 MS. ANDERSON: Here. 16 MS. SAUM: Helen Snyder. 17 MS. SNYDER: Here. 18 MS. SAUM: Bitter. 19 MR. BITTER: Here. 20 MS. SAUM: Pete Snyder. 21 MR. SNYDER: Here. 22 MS. SAUM: Faircloth. 23 MR. FAIRCLOTH: Here. 24 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 25 MS. CAMPBELL: Present. American Dairy Goat Association 140 1 MS. SAUM: Weaver. 2 MS. WEAVER: Here. 3 MS. SAUM: Kempe. 4 MS. KEMPE: Here. 5 MS. SAUM: Page. 6 MR. PAGE: Here. 7 MS. SAUM: Saum is here. Rucker. 8 MR. RUCKER: Yes. 9 MS. SAUM: Dean. 10 MS. DEAN: Here. 11 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 12 MR. ALTHEIDE: Here. 13 MS. SAUM: Daniel Considine. 14 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Here. 15 MS. SAUM: Daubert. 16 MR. DAUBERT: Here. 17 MS. SAUM: Burks. 18 MR. BURKS: Here. 19 MS. SAUM: Gustafson. 20 MS. GUSTAFSON: Here. 21 MS. SAUM: Goddard. 22 MR. GODDARD: Here. 23 MS. SAUM: Proctor. She's here. Petersen. 24 MS. PETERSEN: Here. 25 MS. SAUM: Maze. American Dairy Goat Association 141 1 MS. MAZE: Here. 2 MS. SAUM: Reyna. 3 MS. REYNA: Here. 4 MS. SAUM: Korhonen. 5 MR. KORHONEN: Here. 6 MS. SAUM: Hendrickson. 7 MS. HENDRICKSON: Here. 8 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 9 MS. STRICKLAND: Here. 10 MS. SAUM: Senn. 11 MS. SENN: Here. 12 MS. SAUM: Rowe. 13 DR. ROWE: Here. 14 MS. SAUM: Bozzo. 15 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Here. 16 MS. SAUM: Berry. 17 MS. BERRY: Here. 18 MS. SAUM: Callahan. 19 MS. CALLAHAN: Here. 20 MS. SAUM: Bob Cassette. 21 MR. ROBERT CASSETTE: Here. 22 MS. SAUM: And Sheila Nixon. 23 MS. NIXON: Here. 24 MS. SAUM: Okay. Berry. 25 MS. BERRY: I just wanted to make sure that American Dairy Goat Association 142 1 when I gave this to you you understood what it was and it 2 didn't get misfiled; and it's something that you're going 3 to need tomorrow when we do the Registration Committee 4 report; and what it is, Donna Palmer went through the 5 guidebook and very carefully constructed the wording that 6 needed to be done for the Sable proposal last year; and so 7 this is the wording in red; and she's been very careful to 8 note the pages that everything is on, so you should be 9 able to easily reference this; but I didn't want to hand 10 it out because it doesn't say what it is. It's an 11 addendum to the Registration report. 12 MS. NIXON: You're passing that out now? 13 MS. BERRY: Yes. I'm going to pass them out 14 now so that you have them to look at before tomorrow. 15 MS. SAUM: Okay. We'll resume with the 16 preliminary Finance Committee report with Phil Cassette. 17 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Okay. Good afternoon. 18 I just would like to remind the board for anything you 19 heard this morning that anything is possible, the Red Sox 20 have won three straight games. Is that unbelievable? 21 (Applause.) 22 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: For those of us who 23 are in that northeast corner, tucked up there, who have a 24 curse been on us for years, we hope that after this 80 25 years that we will have an opportunity to celebrate. So American Dairy Goat Association 143 1 I'm one of those October baseball fans. 2 We're on the revised budget for 2005, the 3 expense section. I think we covered most of the income 4 issues this morning. We're going to go through the 5 expense items that are there. We'll talk about what was 6 originally passed out. Now, there are a couple of 7 assumptions upfront just for you to take a look at and 8 then we'll go back to the top because that's really where 9 all the changes are. 10 Under the "Buildings and Grounds" expense 11 item you'll see that the revised budget for 2004 is at 12 33,000. That's that additional money that was spent on 13 the office that needed to be expensed. Then we have 14 brought the 2005 expense down to what has been more normal 15 levels for office maintenance. That was originally sent 16 on out to you. That really hasn't changed. The other 17 expense items and changes have been little compared to the 18 current one that's in front of you, but we're going to go 19 through those. 20 I have passed out what I call a little 21 reminder, a cheat sheet, that will -- it's just one-liners 22 there won't be any detail, but we'll go through them of 23 what the changes are; and the changes from what was 24 originally sent to what has been revised are really in two 25 categories. We spoke about No. 2 being the data American Dairy Goat Association 144 1 processing reduction that's coming through the IM 2 Committee from the original estimate. The original 3 estimate that's in there was 24,000 that was given to me, 4 and it's actually 18. 5 The rest of the changes are under "Salaries 6 and Wages." We're going to make a couple of changes this 7 coming year to account for items that we're doing on a 8 contract nature, so we're going to put them right now and 9 call them under the "Salaries and Wages" category, but 10 they really include what we are not -- we are not actually 11 paying them as salaried employees. It's contract fees. 12 We're very clear these are not employees 13 working in the ADGA office that we control their every 14 issue. We pay them, and we will issue a 1099 at the end 15 of the year for a payment, but we do want to bring it to 16 your attention. It's going to be there. That's where the 17 current payment is going. We're going to create a new 18 subaccount so that we can clearly see what they are. And 19 those two relate to the Performance Programs Coordinator 20 position and to what the EC will bring to you, which is a 21 recommendation for website maintenance for the coming 22 year. 23 So if we go to that number and we look at 24 "Salaries and Wages," what was originally put forward to 25 you was 270,000, which was what the 2004 expense will come American Dairy Goat Association 145 1 to for this year, was originally put there for 2005. The 2 following changes are now in the revision: An increase in 3 staff salaries in a range of 3 to 6 percent with a max cap 4 of $10,000. That's the first item. We'll come back and 5 discuss them in detail in just a moment. 6 The second item was a reclassification. 7 Last year the program performance coordinator's position, 8 that part-time position, was put in under "Personnel 9 Benefit," not up at the top, which is rarely what we're 10 doing in the contract fee, so it's reclassifying if you'll 11 notice from the revised -- the number is that under 12 "Benefits" was reduced back down from what was put up 13 there, and it was reduced down 13,000; and that's moved up 14 under "Salaries and Wages" because under there is payments 15 to date, including what has been paid in that 270,000 and 16 then moving forward so that the original part-time 17 contract amount, which was for $18,000 plus a couple 18 thousand dollars for travel, is now being put up under 19 "Salaries and Wages"; and "Salaries and Wages" will now 20 include those contract payments in the total category. So 21 one is just a reclass. One went down, the other went up. 22 The increase is a recommendation coming from 23 the EC, which will be addressed in complete detail which 24 is increasing that position, that contract position of 25 performance programs coordinator from a half-time person, American Dairy Goat Association 146 1 half-time issue, up to three-quarters. 2 The fourth item, which is (d) on that little 3 cheat sheet, is the increase, the association manager's 4 salary is a straight 3 percent for the effective January 5 1st, 2005; and (e), as I indicated a moment ago, is to 6 enter into a contract for website maintenance for a total 7 of 8,000; and I'll go through -- you know, there's some 8 detail there that will be presented. So the increase in 9 that line item from what was originally sent to you is a 10 total of $47,500. 11 Those were all the changes really that are 12 coming into place for what the Finance Committee has done 13 here. A couple of other just items to note that I had 14 originally sent out to you is the fact that the annual 15 meeting expense has been reduced. Any time that it's held 16 in the middle of the country or towards the east of the 17 country that -- the director expense are actually less and 18 that has been reflected in that number. And then as we 19 spoke earlier, that next year we're going to have that 20 one-time expensing of the balance of the ARMS system. 21 So let's go down through these. At this 22 point in time we're looking at the increase in salaries. 23 The proposal on the addendum, if you want to look at it 24 specifically, it says, "Finance Committee Year-End Report 25 Addendum," Item No. 1(a), recommend salary increases for American Dairy Goat Association 147 1 the office staff in the amount of 3 to 6 percent with a 2 maximum cap of $10,000. The association manager based on 3 performance and/or productivity would determine the 4 specific amount for each employee within the range. That 5 is what -- it's going to be arranged minimum 3 percent, 6 max 6, to any one individual. We're giving some 7 flexibility to our office manager to decide that. A 8 maximum count that could be out in that is $10,000. 9 Cost of living for the state of North 10 Carolina in the region last year was 2.2 percent. So this 11 increase includes a recognition that there was a cost of 12 living increase and that there is some merit, but the 13 total merit piece is going to be based on the 14 association's manager's review of that person, you know, 15 the normal performance issues, longevity, seniority, those 16 kinds of items that are in there. So I think that's 17 straightforward and clear what's being proposed. Once 18 again, we won't vote until the end. 19 The performance programs manager position, 20 which will come in a detailed recommendation from the EC 21 is the fact they need to continue that process and to 22 enter into a two-year contract in order to provide those 23 services and at a level it's needed. More time is being 24 needed and is being spent by Lisa Shepard, and that would 25 move up to an equivalent basis of three-quarters for a American Dairy Goat Association 148 1 maximum payoff for the year of $27,000. We've been 2 budgeting 18. 27, we're going to move that up $9,000. 3 That's an increase in that line item. 4 In addition to that, we're also telling the 5 board that we're going to set aside for travel of this 6 person $6,000, which represents eight trips to the ADGA 7 office and two other trips, whether they are DHI related 8 trips or other trips that we would be sending a 9 representative to, that's included there. 10 Website maintenance. You will see in the IM 11 Committee report that there is a recommendation for 12 payment for the current year of $2,500 to Andrea Forrest. 13 That, once again, we're voting on in the morning. That's 14 in 2004. For 2005 the discussion at the EC level that 15 Andrea would maintain on that website issue would be at a 16 payment of $15 an hour, maximum per any one month, $1,000; 17 for a maximum for the year of $8,000. There is a variance 18 in the amount of workload in certain months on website 19 maintenance. Some months are kind of quiet, other months 20 there's more work that needs to be done, so the EC is 21 presenting that and we'll get copies out to you of the 22 actual presentation, but that's how 8,000 came to, in a 23 discussion with Andrea. 24 It's a one-year contract. There was 25 discussion, and I'll raise the issue directly, there was American Dairy Goat Association 149 1 discussion about going out to bid for this item. With the 2 changes coming from the IM Committee talking about online 3 registration and the other issues that might relate with 4 that, it was felt that that whole issue of website 5 maintenance and system maintenance and what it would take 6 for online registration may be better in a year to bring 7 it under one person. 8 We're unsure what's fully going to come and 9 at the speed that it will be developed, so we're 10 comfortable saying for the next year let's stay with what 11 we have and to maintain that website and that will come 12 back to you next year with probably a bid process to do 13 that or we will come back with a whole different proposal 14 of how that's going to run. We're unsure totally what 15 online registration will mean and how much maintenance 16 from that end. That's going to come more out of the IM 17 Committee. So we are saying to the -- the EC is saying -- 18 and certainly Daniel as president last year could address 19 that issue more, but we're comfortable saying for one year 20 we'll go through without an outside bid. 21 Then the last one there is coming from the 22 EC is a recommendation to the board to give a 3 percent 23 salary increase to the Association manager, and that 24 amount is $1,500. That was the -- that was worked out 25 with the Association manager in discussion of what she was American Dairy Goat Association 150 1 requesting, and that is what's coming forward to you. 2 Questions on those changes or other issues 3 and expenses? Rowe. 4 DR. ROWE: Just a clarification on the 5 travel for the performance programs coordinator, does that 6 travel budget include attending -- I'm not sure it's been 7 discussed, but I would presume it would be appropriate for 8 that person to attend the linear appraisal refresher 9 session. 10 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: We did speak to that 11 with Lisa, and we said that there are a couple of trips in 12 there that would need to be covered outside of going to 13 the office. Lisa did say that for the next year she did 14 not -- she thought that that would cover it. I don't want 15 to speak for you, but there is in there money to cover 16 other travel than just to the office, and we thought at 17 that point, you know, it's there. 18 There has always been some -- there's been 19 some issue as far as travel, and the way we look at this 20 is if this is coming to you, what would be additional 21 travel because of this outside position hasn't posted 22 normal travel; and the performance programs person who's 23 in charge of that, now called coordinator, has always 24 attended two functions anyway, to come to the annual 25 meeting and gone to the refresher, so we have not reduced American Dairy Goat Association 151 1 the committee expenses that would be associated with that. 2 So that's in the budget, and we're comfortable that that 3 in the budget plus a couple of other trips should cover 4 for the routine. Campbell. 5 MS. CAMPBELL: I notice we have a change in 6 the IM report that was handed out has 50,000 on one line, 7 and the original report had 60. Did we make that 8 adjustment in the financial information? 9 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Thank you, Linda. 10 Yes, if you'll note that, the total dollar amount that IM 11 Committee is asking for has not changed. They originally 12 said what they wanted they believed was $60,000 for the 13 online registration fees; and they thought they could 14 acquire the printer with the balance of the money that was 15 allocated for them in 2004. In working out the details, 16 those are just rough estimates; and then in discussion 17 with Bryan Lenihan that it was determined that the online 18 registration discussed with him would be 50,000, but they 19 needed this printer. 20 And the discussion with the printer is the 21 fact they have the printer to do more work, which is what 22 certainly in our work we want them to do. Instead of 23 paying all this money in forms, obtain a printer upfront, 24 face the cost upfront and have the printer do more of that 25 actual printing. We feel -- I know in our business when American Dairy Goat Association 152 1 we changed over to having the printers do the work, and 2 quality printers doing the work, the end result was 3 actually better, number one; and, number two, that we paid 4 for what was then we incurred was a 50,000-dollar expense, 5 we repaid for it in about eight months. The savings in 6 paper, the cost of printing those things, the more you 7 want on your form being printed outside is a direct 8 impact. 9 So the IM Committee is looking at trying to 10 reduce expenses for what it costs for registrations in 11 taking a look at that and they really do believe in the 12 printer, so what originally was 60 and 15 is now 50, 13 $10,000 for the printer, plus the 15. It is the same 14 75,000 that they're asking for. I hope I clarified that 15 to make it easier. But, thank you, Linda, for making sure 16 that we -- I just want people to understand where the 17 money is going and what's being spent. It's what's coming 18 through committee on those kind of requests. 19 There is one other change that I will bring 20 to your attention that in what originally came out to you 21 was a request from the association manager to acquire five 22 new workstations and do some work in the office, but what 23 was done back I believe in 1995 or 6 with the 24 workstations, about half of them were upgraded. The other 25 half were not -- are older desks. Some of them are a American Dairy Goat Association 153 1 little mismatched. There was an original estimate of 2 $15,000 to bring these five workstations, four outside 3 plus the association manager's office, and purchase these. 4 Subsequent review, Shirley brought to us 5 that it would cost about $9,000. The 15 was an 6 overstatement. The Finance Committee felt that at this 7 time with the costs going out, that we did not feel that 8 that was a reasonable request for 2005, but we certainly 9 will probably bring that forward for 2006. We need these 10 other items, we felt were more priority that we need to 11 deal with the online registration, so what originally came 12 to you said, you know, "Office furniture, $15,000." 13 That's been removed. 14 Other questions on the proposal that's 15 before you? Great. A couple other items just to cover 16 and then from that end if there are any issues on the cost 17 analysis that was done. There is some difference in 18 opinion on assumptions. They are assumptions. So if 19 you'd turn to what was originally handed out in the 20 original packet you will find that it's called -- it's an 21 Excel spreadsheet called "Cost Analysis 2003." It does 22 have -- two other times this has been done. It was done 23 originally in 1992, and we are really talking about 24 comparing apples to oranges. Probably doesn't need to be 25 there and shouldn't be there, but it was given out that American Dairy Goat Association 154 1 way last year, and we went again and replicated it, but it 2 was a very different approach to costing. 3 The other items in 2002, what was presented 4 last year in 2003, through these assumptions and tell you 5 they're assumptions that were worked on between myself and 6 Bonnie Kempe, Jim Wilson, and Shirley McKenzie a year ago. 7 We went back this year, Charlotte and myself and Shirley, 8 and went through these assumptions and feel that they are 9 valid. Now, that's an opinion. Let's go through these 10 assumptions. 11 Allocated costs, what we're saying here is 12 those that are not specific to a program would break down 13 between registration, shows, and performance programs. 60 14 percent to registration, 20 to shows, and 20 to 15 performance programs. The total cost, which the total 16 cost to be allocated, those that are not specifically 17 identified with a program. From those, of course, we 18 exclude all linear appraisal fees because those go right 19 up against linear appraisal income. National Shows, 20 Spotlight Sale, DNA, training conferences, all of those 21 have direct income and those are all excluded. 22 The total that's there that's in payroll and 23 benefits, 354,000; data processing costs, which is 24 depreciation and direct expense, 101,000; supplies and 25 direct overhead, 173,000. I will say that under the American Dairy Goat Association 155 1 "Supplies and Direct Overhead" there is a little bit of a 2 disagreement in how and what should be there, so write to 3 the Finance Committee, because it's one of the reasons why 4 we're not bringing forward, and there's another thing 5 we're not bringing forward any recommendation regarding a 6 change to membership fees because more detail needs to be 7 done and more work analysis needs to be done there, but 8 basically it includes everything that doesn't specifically 9 get assigned with some income generation. 10 Registration department, if you take those 11 total costs, apply the percentage, which is 60 percent, 12 the cost for the registration department totals 378,000. 13 We then divide the allocation within the registration 14 department in total to registration, 62 percent, 15 transfers, 14; memberships, 22; herd names, 2. That 16 allocates it all out, which brings the cost to generate a 17 registration to $6.69; transfer is $2.71. 18 Now, you're dealing with two sets of 19 assumptions. If you agree that the original assumption at 20 the top is 60 percent for registrations and then you agree 21 that the allocation within the registration department is 22 correct then you come down to that number. We've had some 23 lively discussions in Finance Committee, and the basic 24 statement was you might change these numbers a little, but 25 there's no real significant change. It's not going to be American Dairy Goat Association 156 1 so dramatic from where it's at. It is costing us about 2 that for generation of a registration. 3 How did we get the number? You know, you 4 took the total cost divided by the number of registrations 5 for 2003, and that's what it costs. I then gave you kind 6 of a, you know, number if you take the total registration 7 in common, you multiply by -- you know, you divide it by 8 the number of registrations out there, you're getting, you 9 know, the average. So we're covering our costs, but just 10 barely. 11 The next page covers the cost of membership 12 and herd names, same thing, percentage of allocation at 13 the top and then those direct expenses for membership, 14 including for the past year. 2003 we didn't have to by 15 life member pins, but the publications, bulk mailings, 16 News & Events, annual meeting costs, grants and 17 scholarships, all parts that relate to our membership 18 activity; and the cost for the membership 15 -- $15. We 19 are basically getting about 16.95 per membership. 20 There is a disagreement in this number and 21 how it's calculated. You have myself at one end. You 22 have kind of Linda in the middle, and you have Daniel way 23 out on the edge, so that's what we're saying to you is we 24 need to come back and do some more analysis on how these 25 are actually determined from that end. We know that if American Dairy Goat Association 157 1 you're taking this into account that it's at least that, 2 and membership is just about covering. 3 Linda's question, "Well, if everything just 4 about covers then why are we losing $60,000?" What is 5 subtracted out of here is cost of publications, which were 6 paid for in 2003 that are sold to ADGA membership, so if 7 you go up to the income section and you look at generation 8 of income from publications and the sales applied to those 9 items, that for 2003, that income certainly does not cover 10 the expense. 11 My thing is that there is -- it's a balance. 12 It's more than a one-year supply purchased, and so you 13 should not be taking that loss into here. It's plus or 14 minus how you want to do it. Some people say you take the 15 whole thing and just, you know, dump that loss into the 16 routine. I'm just telling you these are the assumptions 17 that were put together. The Finance Committee agreed that 18 we need to do some more work and present perhaps -- you 19 know, take a look at it a multiple number of ways and come 20 to some consensus in the committee of what it actually 21 costs. We know at a minimum that it is costing at least 22 $15, and if you add some of those other items in it's 23 probably more. 24 Income, because of life membership and 25 youth, is not the $17.50 that we all think of getting out American Dairy Goat Association 158 1 of $25. It's actually $16.95. That number is clear. 2 Income divided by the number. We are averaging $16.95 3 income per membership. 4 Questions on the cost analysis in front of 5 you? Have I totally put you to sleep? Just nod "yes." 6 Yeah. This for accountants, this just makes our blood 7 boil. We just love this kind of detail. I'm not feeling 8 quite that energy level from the board, but it's okay. I 9 will survive somehow. If you have questions and you don't 10 understand or if I can help you through the routine, you 11 know, ask me during the next day or two and I'll cover it 12 at the end. 13 Oh, Hendrickson. 14 MS. HENDRICKSON: I kind of have one 15 question on the registration cost. Since we do does at 16 6.50 and bucks at 12.50 and young animals at one price and 17 over 30 at one price and, of course, nonmembers and 18 membership costs also, but can you give us just a 19 percentage of that? 20 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: I gave the number in 21 an e-mail, and I don't have that e-mail right in front of 22 me. If you take the total registration income divided by 23 the number, it comes out to the percent you're asking for. 24 What is the -- what are we averaging for income per 25 registration compared to the cost? American Dairy Goat Association 159 1 MS. HENDRICKSON: Well, yes, like how many 2 of the total registrations were females at the low 6.50 3 rate versus the rest of the registrations through here 4 that were either bucks or at the higher rate for does over 5 30 months is kind of what I wanted to know, because we're 6 averaging out the total cost, so maybe over the total year 7 we're not really losing money at 6.50 because we have the 8 higher rates figured into the average. 9 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: The average is above 10 the 6.50, and it is above the cost. I set it out in an 11 e-mail. I'll get it. We can give you the exact numbers 12 because we have -- we do report income by type of 13 registration that's being paid, so we do have the ones at 14 the higher, we have the nonmember rates. I can't do that 15 math now, but we can do it today and get back to you and 16 hand it out first thing in the morning, but we'll get that 17 number. But I also sent it in an e-mail, and I think the 18 answer is on record and I don't have that e-mail with me, 19 and Tom is shaking his head he doesn't have it either. 20 We'll get it for you. 21 The other item that was mailed to you -- one 22 last thing and I'll get out of your way -- was a request 23 by Daniel for me to provide comparison registration fees 24 for other associations. It was sent out on Saturday 25 afternoon at about 3:00 o'clock. So some of you I realize American Dairy Goat Association 160 1 were already on the road by that time if you were driving 2 here and might not have had it. It is for information 3 only. It covers a number of cattle association fees. 4 The assumption you need to make there is 5 what I'm giving you is the low fee rate that they're 6 providing. Some of them have very complicated fee 7 schedules, even more complicated than ours, which I 8 thought you had to go a ways to get there, but I've given 9 you the base rate that's there in comparison; and if you 10 don't have a copy, I don't have any extras with me. I 11 know that Tom Rucker said that he had already left and 12 didn't have it. We'll get copies. But it's a two-page 13 entitled "Comparison of Registration Fees," and it covers 14 like 8 or 10 different registries and what they're 15 currently charging. Just information for you, but I will 16 get you copies. Show of hands how many copies we need to 17 get, who doesn't have that. 18 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: I have one. 19 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: One person, okay. But 20 it's more information. Daniel asked me to put it out so 21 people had a point of reference. It was done. Thanks. 22 MS. SAUM: Campbell, you have two minutes 23 and 20 seconds. 24 MS. CAMPBELL: Just very briefly, I'm not 25 sure this will come up, but I just wanted to make sure. American Dairy Goat Association 161 1 In the discussion of the membership, what it's costing us 2 to maintain each membership, and some of my discussion in 3 the Finance Committee basically relates to if it's not 4 being covered by some specific program or some way that 5 every expense is balanced by an income, that's a part of 6 our overall cost of having a membership, and I wasn't 7 comfortable that everything was included in that figure. 8 We had figures from the rest of us coming up 9 with other types of ways to arrive at this information. 10 The cost ranged from around 25 to $30 instead of 15. So 11 in addition to having the costs that are outlined here, if 12 we're looking at also building our reserves, I mean, at 13 some point that needs to be a cost of our membership. We 14 need to make sure we have a stable income level, and we 15 need to be comfortable that we are prepared for 16 catastrophic events that may affect the participation, for 17 example. 18 That would be what I would like to see us 19 look towards so that we are very comfortable that for a 20 period of five -- in the future of five years, I'm willing 21 to give that as a range, that we could operate 22 sustainably; and I personally don't feel at this level we 23 can operate sustainably very long; but I also feel it's 24 something that needs to be looked at very closely to make 25 sure we can identify some areas for efficiency American Dairy Goat Association 162 1 improvements that may reduce some of our costs and at the 2 same time have this available for the membership to be 3 aware that this will be coming as we look at it closely, 4 that we expect there will be increases proposed in the 5 very near future; but during this period of time, you 6 know, prior to next year, we'll have that opportunity so 7 that we have a handle on it and a very comfortable figure 8 that we're accurate. Thank you. 9 MS. SAUM: Okay. We're going to go down and 10 start down through some of these committees. We had some 11 requests, like Daniel said, for order; and the first one 12 is going to be the ADGA Research Foundation and DNA by Dr. 13 Joan Bowen. 14 DR. BOWEN: My name is Joan Bowen. I am the 15 current President of the American Dairy Goat Association 16 Research Foundation. In your folder you should have a 17 Foundation year-end report. At this time we have four 18 active trustees. Phil Sponenberg, a veterinarian from 19 Tufts University has asked to resign, and he has increased 20 teaching responsibilities to that institution. He feels 21 he can no longer participate. I notified Daniel Considine 22 that the new executive committee would be asked to 23 determine a replacement for Dr. Sponenberg, and we do have 24 someone identified that would be interested in that 25 position. American Dairy Goat Association 163 1 We still try and elicit sponsored research 2 from dairy goats that would benefit ADGA members. Last 3 year Dr. Paul Martin from Iowa State University completed 4 a research project on retrograde ejaculation. He did 5 approach us for more funding, and we decided since most of 6 his results were negative, that he was finding this was 7 not a significant problem in goats, that we would not 8 continue to fund that research. 9 We received two other research proposals 10 that are detailed in your report, and after long 11 consideration and long deliberation, we decided not to 12 fund those two research proposals because we did not feel 13 that they were in the benefit of our industry. 14 At this time we have $7,000 in checking and 15 21,000 in a CD that is rolling over. We have 28,000 16 total; and while we would continue to ask for your support 17 in identifying research proposals, we feel that in the 18 interest of the financial situation of the association 19 this year we would not ask you for funding for this year, 20 that we will continue to work with this funding for this 21 year. Are there any questions? Linda. 22 MS. CAMPBELL: Just one slight correction. 23 Dr. Sponenberg is from the Virginia Medical School of 24 Veterinary Medicine. 25 DR. BOWEN: Okay, yes. He would be very American Dairy Goat Association 164 1 upset that I identified the wrong veterinary school. He 2 is from VMI. I don't know why I said Tufts. I apologize. 3 Any questions? Boy, that was quick. 4 Moving along, this one won't be as quick. I 5 have the committee report for the ADGA DNA Typing 6 Committee, and this was not circulated to members prior to 7 this meeting for a very good reason, and that reason is 8 that over the last six to eight weeks there has been a lot 9 of activity with items going back and forth between the 10 ADGA office and myself. 11 In the summer you will have noticed -- I 12 think it was in the mid-year report where we gave the 13 first hint that we were having some difficulties with 14 ImmGen and getting laboratory samples processed in a 15 timely manner, and over the course of the summer I 16 received e-mails from Robin Saum and from Shirley McKenzie 17 that we were having difficulty getting work processed, and 18 so over the last six to eight weeks -- yes, ma'am. 19 MS. DEAN: Patty Dean. I'm sorry, I don't 20 have a copy of that report. 21 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: It was handed out 22 this morning. 23 DR. BOWEN: Actually, it's in the back of 24 the packet. It might have been stuck to the back of your 25 Foundation report. I actually put those into the packets, American Dairy Goat Association 165 1 so I know they went in there. If not, I can get you one. 2 I think I have some extras in my briefcase. 3 Anyway, Shirley McKenzie notified me, as did 4 Robin Saum, that we were having difficulties getting 5 samples processed, so for the last six to eight weeks I 6 have been in close contact on a weekly basis with the 7 laboratory. To the best of my knowledge, from what 8 Shirley has told me, we are current on samples at this 9 time, but one of the things that was brought to my 10 attention was possibly the idea of looking at a different 11 laboratory to process samples. 12 Apparently a very poplar topic on the 13 internet is "Well, there are so many DNA labs out there, 14 why don't we just choose a different one to work with?" 15 Those of you who have had those DNA talks yesterday would 16 have noticed that there are only two labs in this country 17 that process DNA samples from dairy goats. One of them is 18 ImmGen in Texas, which is the lab we have been using for 19 the last 15 years; and the other is the Veterinary 20 Genetics Laboratory at the University of California at 21 Davis; and so we do have two labs to choose to do our 22 work; and at this time I think the prudent thing would be 23 to identify a person either in the office or on the 24 committee that would be working to determine what would be 25 the best interests of the association for the future. American Dairy Goat Association 166 1 I don't have a proposal for you, telling you 2 this is what I recommend, because I don't think I have 3 that answer for you. It's not a simple decision. Neither 4 lab has very much crossover with the work that the other 5 lab has done. We have 15 years of data with ImmGen. That 6 doesn't mean I can just casually tell you we need to 7 switch to the University of California at Davis and use 8 their Veterinary Genetics Laboratory. 9 At this time I can't tell you how often we 10 use those old DNA types. For example, if you submitted 11 samples four years ago and you have a kid born in the 12 spring, I don't know how many times we look back at those 13 old DNA types to use them in an offspring parentage 14 verification. So there are some very serious 15 considerations to go to in switching labs, and I do not 16 have a recommendation, and the reason for that is I think 17 we need to have someone from the ADGA office or from the 18 committee do that research, get estimates, get 19 approximates. 20 There are differences in the charges between 21 the two labs. There's differences in the procedures. 22 There's differences in the samples submitted and in the 23 handbook, and I would be happy to answer whatever 24 questions I can. 25 Linda Campbell asked that I mention that we American Dairy Goat Association 167 1 are not currently under contract with ImmGen. It depends 2 on what you mean by "under contract." We have a one-year 3 contract that was signed in 1990 with Jerry Caldwell and 4 at that time we signed a contract for one year's worth of 5 services, and since then it's been on a gentleman's 6 agreement handshake that we've had our services provided 7 with ImmGen. So technically from a legal standpoint we do 8 not have a contract with ImmGen. From an ethical and 9 moral standpoint I feel we do have a contract with ImmGen. 10 Dr. Caldwell died last year. There has been 11 changes in the laboratory. I don't know what the future 12 of that laboratory is. I don't know if it will be stable. 13 I don't know that Davis's laboratory will be stable. I 14 don't have those answers. So we don't have a legal 15 contract, but to me we have an ethical contract. 16 Philip. Mr. Cassette. 17 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: I understand there are 18 some issues, but could you address for us, Joan, and 19 explain what is going on at the international level to set 20 up what is going to be -- what I understand is to be as 21 the accepted markers to be used and what is UC Davis and 22 ImmGen's position on following a protocol that is being 23 designed and set up for dairy goats, and am I not -- or 24 correct me if I'm misspeaking or misunderstanding. I did 25 not make your presentation, so... American Dairy Goat Association 168 1 DR. BOWEN: It's okay. 2 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: I would like to hear, 3 because my concern is the fact that if we have a lab who 4 is not going to convert to what, you know, in the long run 5 most likely will be the protocol to be used and the 6 markers to be used then I would be concerned with staying 7 with that lab or going to that lab. So could you address 8 those issues? 9 DR. BOWEN: There are not very many labs 10 around the world that do those types of DNA typing. I 11 commented that there are two in this country. There is a 12 lab in Sweden, a lab in Norway, one in France, and one in 13 Spain. There is one in Japan and one in Australia, and to 14 the best of my knowledge, that's it. 15 And I had a phone conversation with Diane 16 Anderson, who is the laboratory director (sic) at VGL at 17 the University of California Davis, on October 19th; and 18 in that phone conversation she said that at the recent 19 ISAC meeting in Japan that they had determined that the 20 labs which do not currently use identical markers would 21 move towards adapting a panel of 14 markers. 22 Now, in the conversations I had with Diane 23 Anderson, I checked my notes, and she said they would be 24 moving to a panel of nine. In the conversation that Lisa 25 Shepard had with Diane Anderson she said they would be American Dairy Goat Association 169 1 moving to a panel of 14. I don't know how many labs are 2 going to change their panel of markers to do that. The 3 labs that are in this country use markers that are in the 4 public domain. 5 And by "markers," if you're not familiar 6 with what Phil and I are talking about, they're the places 7 on the DNA strands where the chemicals attack it and 8 determine how many little chemical arrangements are at 9 that marker. Right now both ImmGen and the University of 10 California at Davis use markers that are in the public 11 domain, and what that means is that they use markers that 12 you can go out and buy and you don't have to pay someone a 13 patent fee. 14 Some of the processes associated with DNA 15 typing are patented, and so you could -- as a private 16 individual you could set up your own little homegrown DNA 17 laboratory, buy your equipment. You could patent the 18 markers you use and then you would be the only one who 19 could create a DNA type using those markers, so one point 20 I have learned in the last couple of weeks is both ImmGen 21 and UC Davis use markers that are in the public domain. 22 Now, Diane -- I must admit I have not talked 23 to ImmGen too much about this situation because it's a 24 very touchy situation there. It's a family-owned 25 business. They are very sensitive to the fact that the American Dairy Goat Association 170 1 leader of the clan died this year. There has been a 2 breakup amongst the family members. I'm not saying that 3 to scare you to say we shouldn't use this lab. It just 4 means when you talk to them about the science of it and 5 thinking about going to a different laboratory they get 6 very defensive. So I haven't questioned them too hard to 7 say, "How willing are you to work with Davis?" 8 Now, right now, Diane Anderson says that of 9 the nine that they use at Davis and of the ones she knows 10 at ImmGen, they only share one common marker; and you 11 comment that they're talking about going to an 12 international panel of 14. That was proposed in Japan 13 this month. Whether or not the other companies actually 14 do that, I don't know that they will. So that's why I'm 15 saying I can't give you an exact statement as these labs 16 will all fall into line. It is to their benefit, their 17 own personal laboratory benefit, not to fall into line, to 18 keep differences, to try and use that as an advertising 19 edge. You know, "Use my lab because I'm better 20 because..." 21 Now, the question becomes does one lab 22 provide better results than the other, and I can't answer 23 that question either. When you ask for information from 24 the labs they both say that they try and have turnaround 25 at 4 to 6 weeks. With ImmGen we can pay a rush fee and American Dairy Goat Association 171 1 get samples processed more promptly sometimes, when we 2 take it there. 3 University of California at Davis is very 4 firm in that they do not have a rush fee, that your sample 5 is accepted in sequence; and one thing I'm concerned about 6 with processing at Davis -- again, not enough to make me 7 recommend not to use their lab, but they are the 8 designated laboratory for several very large horse 9 associations, among them the American Quarter Horse 10 Association; and as of January 1st, 2005, AQHA will go to 11 mandatory DNA typing for registration of all foals born 12 after January 1. That's approximately 200,000 animals per 13 year. 14 Now, one of the things that concerns me and 15 we need to work if we chose to go with UCVGL Davis is we 16 need to find out what impact that would have on us. 17 Quarter horses traditionally foal in early January, 18 especially if they -- 19 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Dr. Bowen, she needs 20 to change her tape. 21 DR. BOWEN: I'm sorry. I didn't recognize 22 the click. 23 (Tape changed.) 24 DR. BOWEN: One of the problems that we 25 might have is as it stands and what it lists on their American Dairy Goat Association 172 1 website and what they state are the practices of VGL lab 2 is that all samples are processed in the order that they 3 come. Now, to us rush season is April through July, or 4 could be into August. To the quarter horse people rush 5 season might be January through March, might be January 6 through June. I can't give you the dates, but we might 7 actually run into a different problem than we currently 8 have. 9 Currently we're not getting samples 10 processed as prompt as our members want, but I can't 11 guarantee you that by switching labs we won't be in a 12 different situation just because we'll be a very small 13 segment in a very large pool of samples, and the VGL 14 laboratory processes around 300,000 samples a year, so it 15 is a large pool. 16 Ms. Berry. 17 MS. BERRY: Okay. So from what I understand 18 of what you said, Joan, if we were to change over to 19 Davis, we would basically have to start over as far as the 20 information we have from prior DNA testing. Is that 21 correct? 22 DR. BOWEN: We don't know that for sure. 23 One of the things that we're trying to do right now, 24 Shirley's been working with her records and I've been 25 trying to find a few old records that accidentally went American Dairy Goat Association 173 1 out that shouldn't, we're trying to find the exact names 2 of the markers that are used at ImmGen; and, as I said, 3 because I was trying to be very careful in dealing with 4 these labs, I didn't just call ImmGen and say, "What 5 markers are you using?" 6 Diane Anderson did say, and she's the 7 director (sic) at VGL, if we could provide her with a list 8 of the DNA markers that are used at ImmGen, which we 9 should be able to take off the data that's in the ADGA 10 office, that she would see how much overlap there really 11 is because she doesn't know exactly what ImmGen is doing. 12 If there are not too many cases on a yearly basis, if 13 those animals are still alive, VGL said that they would be 14 willing to do at a reduced rate, test those markers. 15 So say, for example, you're wanting to DNA 16 type an offspring to a parent that's already been tested 17 at ImmGen. If we have the ImmGen DNA type and there are 18 say three DNA markers that cross with both labs, maybe we 19 would only have to do six of those markers for Davis to 20 have the information they need to complete the DNA type, 21 and what Diane Anderson told me was that they would be 22 willing to do that at a reduced rate. 23 Your comment, would we lose everything, I 24 truthfully don't know. We might lose data. We have 25 approximately 1,100 animals DNA typed. American Dairy Goat Association 174 1 MS. BERRY: I have a second part to my 2 question, and that is with the death of the founder -- 3 DR. BOWEN: Dr. Caldwell. 4 MS. BERRY: Dr. Caldwell, and we all know 5 that businesses go through transitional periods, that 6 perhaps if we were to find out if we waited a period of 7 time to see how they rose from this situation, we might be 8 able to continue working with them. You know, I'm curious 9 to know if there's a way for us to find out how badly 10 injured this company is and how likely they are to be able 11 to continue to be in the business that we have hired them 12 for. 13 DR. BOWEN: Well, asking, to be clairvoyant, 14 I'm not good at that. I'm a veterinarian. My best 15 comment to make on that would be is our interactions with 16 ImmGen were very poor in the middle of the spring, but 17 with our -- with Shirley McKenzie sending me requests for 18 information and me contacting the lab through September 19 and October, we got very prompt responses to our 20 questions. They have hired a DNA analyst who will look at 21 the data, and I think she joined the staff either the last 22 week in July or the first of August, and I don't know what 23 date the samples are actually sent, so I can't give you a 24 time line, but my perception of this situation is that it 25 was better in August and September than it was earlier. American Dairy Goat Association 175 1 Would that be fair, Shirley? 2 BOARD MEMBER: Yes. 3 DR. BOWEN: Well, I have to ask Shirley. 4 Would that be a fair assessment? 5 MS. McKENZIE: (Nods affirmatively.) 6 DR. BOWEN: But, no, I don't know how well 7 the lab will do over the next 12 months. I do know that 8 the American Holstein Association is one of ImmGen's 9 largest clients, and although they submit 300,000 samples 10 a year, they have had concerns as well. They are looking 11 at other laboratories, and they have not designated one 12 yet. So to the best of my knowledge, this is not only our 13 problem, and it seems to be everyone is asking the same 14 industry questions. 15 The other thing is, is Ohio State University 16 currently has a cattle DNA typing laboratory, and the 17 gentleman who is in charge of that laboratory is retiring, 18 and that laboratory will be closing. So there are 19 approximately 40 breeds of cattle that are DNA typing 20 through Ohio that will no longer have Ohio's services, and 21 they will also be looking for a lab. So we could be in a 22 competitive crunch here, and last year we processed 64 23 samples. ADGA averages 250 samples a year. We will be 24 the drop in the bucket that might get noticed last. 25 Ms. Campbell. American Dairy Goat Association 176 1 MS. CAMPBELL: Do we have an idea how long 2 the contract offer -- I just want to have some idea of how 3 long the contract offer might be valid. 4 DR. BOWEN: Well, I wasn't given any 5 deadlines. My impression in talking to Diane Anderson on 6 the 18th, 19th, and 20th of October and then talking to 7 Lisa Shepard and then having Lisa talk to them again and 8 then talking to them again, it sounds like they're very 9 interested in our business, because things that they 10 assured me on the 18th, 19th, and 20th were concrete and 11 couldn't be changed are now changed. So they seem to be 12 negotiable. 13 So the things that I'm most interested in 14 are whether or not the contract is exclusive. So, for 15 example, if we had a parentage situation where you wish to 16 use previously tested samples from ImmGen, if that animal, 17 the offspring could then be tested at ImmGen and we would 18 have the DNA type already on file, couldn't we actually 19 work with both laboratories, and so that's something I 20 think we need to explore with both labs. 21 The example contract that was explained to 22 me that was supposedly sent to Lisa from Davis stated that 23 if we would sign a five-year contract with Davis, the per 24 sample charge to the lab -- now, this doesn't include 25 anything ADGA would have to charge -- the per sample American Dairy Goat Association 177 1 charge for a five year contract was $27 per sample, which 2 is $5 per sample more than we currently pay. 3 If we would sign a three-year contract then 4 the sample -- per sample charge would be $28 per sample, 5 which is $6 more per sample than what we currently pay, so 6 ADGA has to put a small fee on top of that to pay for the 7 time in the office, the handling, the paper work, the 8 sample kits, et cetera. There is office time devoted to 9 this, and I would have to say a disproportionate amount -- 10 for the number of samples we submit a disproportionate 11 amount of Shirley McKenzie's time to work with the DNA. 12 So that would be another thing, is having somebody 13 designated in the office who could do this work other than 14 Ms. McKenzie. 15 Are there other questions? I'm sorry. 16 Rowe. 17 DR. ROWE: Just on the subject of contracts, 18 I think I'm a little unclear then. Are you -- if we can 19 say, are we planning to continue with ImmGen on an 20 informal agreement basis, or it would seem very desirable 21 to me to have a formal contract regardless of who our 22 service provider is, and I would hope it would say the 23 results in the expected time and clarify expectations 24 among parties. 25 DR. BOWEN: I think that's an excellent American Dairy Goat Association 178 1 idea. The reason I didn't pursue, as I mentioned, because 2 we weren't really sure what was going to be happening with 3 the samples that we currently had in process, and we 4 hadn't heard back from VGL prior to convention. I think 5 that whoever is going to be put in charge of this task, 6 whether it's sent to committee or sent to somebody in 7 performance like Ms. Shepard or sent to Shirley, whoever 8 it's sent to, that they need to offer the opportunity to 9 both laboratories. I think they need to be honest with 10 both laboratories that both laboratories have an 11 opportunity to sign a contract with us, whether it's 12 exclusive or whether it's communal, and we need formal 13 bids from both companies as to the per sample cost, what 14 samples they will accept. 15 When I originally contacted Davis, they 16 would accept hair only; and she was very, very firm that 17 the only sample they would consider would be hair; and 18 then in further talking, I mean, I talked to her three 19 different dates, three different times, I kept explaining 20 to her how important semen was; and the most important 21 recent time that Diane Anderson spoke with Lisa Shepard 22 she said semen would be okay. So I guess they realized 23 that it's valuable to us as goat producers that we be 24 allowed to DNA type semen. If you look at the VGL 25 website, which I did put the website addresses in your American Dairy Goat Association 179 1 report for those of you who would like to check out their 2 information, on the VGL website it does list hair only 3 from goats. 4 Sir. Daubert. 5 MR. DAUBERT: Sorry. I knocked my -- it's 6 down there someplace. 7 DR. BOWEN: I see it, upside down. 8 MR. DAUBERT: What is your preference? 9 Would you like to work on it in your committee? Would you 10 like to have a group from representing different areas 11 work on it? What's your preference? 12 DR. BOWEN: I don't mind working on it in my 13 committee, and I certainly don't mind working with Lisa 14 Shepard on this because I think there would be advantages 15 of having -- or Shirley or anyone in the office. I think 16 because we need an office perspective for the handling of 17 this work, I think it should be somebody from the office, 18 and I don't mind at all having it sent to committee. I 19 would be happy to continue with this. I just felt with 20 the sensitive nature of the negotiations being undertaken 21 that it was inappropriate to circulate this information 22 widely before the board meeting so I could let you guys 23 know first what's going on rather than letting the general 24 membership know first. 25 Yes, sir. Daubert. American Dairy Goat Association 180 1 MR. DAUBERT: I move that we refer this back 2 to committee for this committee to work on that and bring 3 us back a recommendation by next year. 4 MS. SAUM: There is a motion on the floor by 5 Daubert. Is there a second? 6 Anderson. Is there any discussion on the 7 motion? The motion before you is to refer this back to 8 committee and have them come forward next year with a 9 recommendation on a lab for us to use. 10 Burks. 11 MR. BURKS: Is this thing still going to be 12 viable for the contracts at that time? 13 DR. BOWEN: I'm sorry? 14 MR. BURKS: Would the offer of the contract 15 still be viable one year from now? 16 DR. BOWEN: My guess is that Davis is not 17 putting a deadline on this contract, that the times -- 18 every time I talked to Diane Anderson she was more 19 interested in following conversations, and it seems like 20 what she's talked to Lisa about, that they are interested 21 in doing our work. I don't think they will drop the 22 contract on us if we don't act by such a date. One thing 23 I think we need to consider in making a motion is where do 24 we continue to work in the meantime and also, two, if you 25 wouldn't mind adding something about somebody from the American Dairy Goat Association 181 1 office staff. 2 MR. DAUBERT: Okay. 3 MS. SAUM: I was going to see if Daubert 4 wanted to do the amendment. She's asking to amend it with 5 an office staff personnel along with the committee. 6 MR. DAUBERT: I concur. 7 MS. SAUM: Anderson is shaking her head 8 "yes" for the amendment. Campbell. 9 MS. CAMPBELL: I was going to ask that, and 10 the second point was I assume this would not preclude the 11 board dealing with it at an earlier date anywhere in that 12 period of time prior to the end of the year and/or the 13 next board meeting. I just want to make that clear. 14 MS. SAUM: Okay. I think we -- Hendrickson. 15 MS. HENDRICKSON: I'm assuming that in the 16 meantime we are still working with ImmGen if we do any 17 samples between now and the end of the year if we did a 18 contract with a different lab? 19 DR. BOWEN: I haven't seen anybody say we 20 should do something different. I just want to know from 21 you guys that's okay. 22 MS. SAUM: Okay. We actually need to vote 23 on the amendment to the motion first, which is that office 24 staff also work with the DNA Typing Committee to select a 25 lab. All in favor of the amendment to the motion say American Dairy Goat Association 182 1 "aye." 2 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 3 MS. SAUM: Any opposed? No opposed. Any 4 abstentions? No abstentions. 5 Okay. So now we'll go back to the original 6 motion. Do you want me to reread the motion or restate 7 it, or are we comfortable? Yes? Okay. All in favor of 8 the motion to have the DNA Committee along with office 9 staff investigate a contract basis. All in favor say, 10 "aye." 11 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 12 MS. SAUM: Any opposed? No opposed. Any 13 abstentions? No abstentions. 14 Does anybody else have anything else for 15 Joan? Reyna. 16 MS. REYNA: I just have a question. In your 17 mid-year report under V it said, "Committee members will 18 be polled and a plan will be developed to require DNA 19 typing of all bucks collected for artificial insemination 20 beginning January 1st, 2005." Did you take that poll? 21 DR. BOWEN: No, we did not, and the reason 22 we didn't is because the members on my committee this year 23 are the same members that were on that committee last 24 year, and if you notice earlier in that mid-year report I 25 said that we needed to check the minutes of the last ADGA American Dairy Goat Association 183 1 meeting. At the last board of directors meeting in 2003 2 this item was tabled and sent to the Registration 3 Committee. I mean, I'm sorry, Artificial Insemination, 4 and so the members of the DNA Typing Committee are still 5 10 people fully supportive of requiring DNA typing for 6 artificial insemination sires, and because it was taken 7 out of our committee we did not resubmit it, and I don't 8 know if that's proper procedure or not. If it's improper 9 procedure, I apologize, and I would be happy to make that 10 proposal this instant, but that's why we didn't. 11 MS. REYNA: Thank you. 12 MS. SAUM: Rowe. 13 DR. ROWE: New topic, and it has to do with 14 shipment of blood samples. I have not done any typing 15 this year, but in the past I have received blood tubes in 16 a Styrofoam package surrounded by cardboard. It's my 17 understanding that the regulations for biohazard shipping 18 have changed, and I'm wondering if our kits are in 19 compliance with those regulations or if we need to look at 20 hair kits. 21 DR. BOWEN: Our kits are in compliance. The 22 current packaging that we use meets federal regulations. 23 It has the -- you are containing the blood samples inside 24 a container to begin with. That's the individual blood 25 tube that contains preservatives. It goes inside a American Dairy Goat Association 184 1 package mailer that has a package into it. That is put 2 into a sealed plastic container that's fully enclosed. 3 That goes inside the cardboard box, and that does meet 4 federal standards. It's also labeled on the outside that 5 it's an animal diagnostic specimen, so it meets federal 6 and international standards. Daubert. 7 MR. DAUBERT: On the AI final or year-end 8 report on page two, third paragraph, there is a comment 9 about DNA for all AI sires, so it may come up later. 10 DR. BOWEN: Are there any other questions? 11 Ms. Strickland. 12 MS. STRICKLAND: I'm interested on some 13 information on how our random DNA sampling program has 14 been working. 15 DR. BOWEN: The only information I have on 16 that is from Shirley McKenzie and as the animals are 17 developing in November when pretty much the registration 18 season ends for the year and that she said the program was 19 active and that people have been participating in it, but 20 I don't have volume numbers for you. I think it was a 21 little busy in the office this year, and she didn't have 22 time to total those things, but that goes through the 23 office, so I don't know how many animals are selected. Do 24 you know, Shirley? 25 MS. McKENZIE: (Nods negatively.) American Dairy Goat Association 185 1 DR. BOWEN: I think that's a reasonable 2 thing, she doesn't know how many. Strickland. 3 MS. STRICKLAND: Do we have any idea of how 4 many kits were sent out? 5 MS. McKENZIE: There were 125 that were 6 invited to participate in it, but I did not bring the 7 total number of those who did respond. I can report that 8 to the board at the next -- in the next board mailing. 9 DR. BOWEN: One thing that an ADGA member 10 brought up to me and a current director on this board 11 brought up to me at this meeting is that that person would 12 like to ask that we more strongly promote the DNA typing 13 amongst the Spotlight Sale sample. You might recall that 14 a couple of boards of directors meetings ago you guys 15 approved a motion from the DNA Typing Committee asking 16 that Spotlight Sale DNA samples be offered to the 17 consignees and that ADGA would pay the expense of DNA 18 typing, and I would like to see far more of those animals 19 in the tent DNA typed and verified, parentage verified. 20 All they have to do is provide the hair 21 samples. It's not like they have to go out and do some 22 extraordinary activity. They can provide semen, they can 23 provide hair, they can provide blood, and ADGA currently 24 pays it. So I would strongly encourage us to more 25 actively get the Spotlight Sale consignees to participate American Dairy Goat Association 186 1 in DNA typing. I think it would be good for the 2 organization. I think it would validate our pedigree 3 system. It would be a real plus for everybody involved. 4 Are there any other questions? Thank you 5 for your time. 6 MS. SAUM: Okay. Moving down the list 7 alphabetically, we have advanced judges, and Sheila is 8 going to come up for that. 9 MS. NIXON: This will not take much time, 10 and you don't even need to find your report. We have no 11 recommendations for action. I do have some concerns, and 12 it does not concern just this committee. I had a rather 13 ambitious agenda for the year, something I felt was really 14 important that we review the program and see if changes 15 were necessary. The committee all agreed to work by 16 e-mail; however, less than half of the committee responded 17 at any time; and so we were unable, we simply were unable, 18 to accomplish any of our goals; and so, therefore, we have 19 no recommendations for action; and I would hope that next 20 year's committee would address these issues and deal with 21 them in 2005. Any questions? 22 MS. SAUM: Reyna. 23 MS. REYNA: I read your report and noticed 24 your comment there, and this is really I guess addressed 25 to the board rather than to you, and that is this American Dairy Goat Association 187 1 shouldn't wait a whole year until a committee reports to 2 have been nonfunctional because they can't get a quorum to 3 get a vote. There ought to be some process in place so 4 that perhaps after three consecutive votes that somebody 5 doesn't respond the chair can drop these people and have a 6 quorum. It's just unconscionable that a chair can have 7 this ambitious and productive an agenda and go a whole 8 year without being able to get a single thing voted on. 9 MS. NIXON: To their credit, I did -- I 10 stopped trying to get information after a while. I did 11 contact the committee and say, "Did you get my 12 information? You know, has it been lost in cyberspace? 13 Do I need to send you again? If you don't want to do 14 this, let me know, and I will -- you know, I will not 15 bother you anymore." I did have response from a couple of 16 people that said, "We'll get to it. We're busy, and we'll 17 get to it," but it never happened, and it was very 18 discouraging. 19 But these things do happen on committees, 20 and we are with volunteers, and I understand people are 21 busy, that they have other priorities. I just was not 22 able to meet my priorities this year as a committee 23 chairman, and it was a really good thing that we did not 24 have an advanced judges seminar on the agenda this year 25 because it would have been a tough one to do. So American Dairy Goat Association 188 1 hopefully this will be taken care of by the committee and 2 the committee chairman next year. There will be a 3 seminar. There is a seminar scheduled for relicensing 4 senior judges in 2005, so hopefully we will have an active 5 committee at that time. Thank you, Shari. 6 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 7 MS. CAMPBELL: I have a question for the 8 chair. Are there any items on there -- since anything can 9 come from the floor of the board, are there any items in 10 your report that may be items that you feel strongly 11 should be acted upon this year? 12 MS. NIXON: I felt strongly that we really 13 needed to review, and I think a review is a long-term 14 process, and I do not believe in doing committee work by 15 the board. I think we've just lost a year. 16 MS. SAUM: Okay. Annual Meeting is going to 17 be tomorrow on your agenda. The next is Artificial 18 Insemination. I'm waiting on one of the two people that 19 might present the report to come in, so we're going to 20 skip them for now until we see them come in the room. 21 Next is the Awards Committee, and Bob Cassette is the 22 chair of that. 23 MR. ROBERT CASSETTE: You have our committee 24 report, and there's not too much to it as far as in-depth; 25 however, there are two items for the board consideration American Dairy Goat Association 189 1 and action. We had -- the committee approved the 2 nomination of David Funk for director emeritus to be 3 presented to you. We had several -- probably at least a 4 half a dozen nominations for David that came through 5 during the year, and the committee approved submitting it 6 to you, and then an addendum that was added to the 7 committee report was the nomination of Harvey Considine 8 for director emeritus also, and this was approved by the 9 committee to present to you, so you have these two 10 recommendations in front of you. 11 MS. SAUM: Reyna. 12 MS. REYNA: Point of information. I just 13 realized that the committee that recommended Harvey 14 Considine for emeritus was doing this voting while he was 15 still a director. I don't think that's appropriate. 16 MS. SAUM: Any comments to Reyna's concerns? 17 I guess I would say, Shari, that others feel that concern 18 would be a no vote to that since it's coming through 19 committee. I think the committee probably felt that by 20 the time the board voted that he would no longer be a 21 director, and that was pretty clear. I mean, he had 22 already -- was not returning to the board. That's just my 23 interpretation. 24 MR. ROBERT CASSETTE: Yes. I would concur 25 with that, because the fact that the actual voting that American Dairy Goat Association 190 1 the board is doing, Harvey Considine is no longer a 2 sitting director. There may be a little bit of a question 3 that the committee considered it while he was still a 4 sitting director, but I -- it's up to the board to how 5 they feel about it. 6 MS. SAUM: We'll go with the first one, 7 which was David Funk. Do we have the ballots? Is 8 somebody passing out ballots? 9 MR. RUCKER: Point of order. 10 MS. SAUM: The balloting committee is going 11 to be Bruce Foster, Dawn Moore, and Andrea Forrest. 12 MS. NIXON: Point of information. In my 13 packet of information I did not have a profile, any kind 14 of a description of David's contribution to the board, and 15 I would certainly feel that that information is a very 16 important part of any nomination for any director emeritus 17 award. Is there one that I do not have, or are we voting 18 simply on a name? 19 MR. ROBERT CASSETTE: I certainly -- I do 20 not have it here with me. I certainly could get a profile 21 for you if you want to delay any action to -- the board 22 wishes to delay the action to later or tomorrow or 23 whatever. I can get copies of that for you if you so 24 desire. 25 MS. SAUM: Rucker. American Dairy Goat Association 191 1 MR. RUCKER: Our constitution is quite clear 2 that the only secret voting by our directors is for the 3 election of officers. Referring to the Constitution 4 Committee, it would seem that's on page 4, section 11 of 5 the constitution. The Constitution Committee also 6 references in their report with a suggestion to amend the 7 constitution to allow for the balloting of director 8 emeritus. 9 MS. SAUM: Daniel Considine. 10 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: There is a point that 11 could be taken, but the page 16 guidelines on director 12 emeritus under "Awards" clearly states that the election 13 will be by secret ballot, and it has been the policy of 14 this board to elect in that manner for a long time. 15 MS. SAUM: Okay. Sheila has raised the 16 concern that the committee needs a report before we vote 17 on anything, and she would prefer to wait to vote on this 18 until we actually have the nomination stuff so you have 19 more information in front of you. There's some of you who 20 may not know the nominees as well as what you would like 21 to in that position. So do we want to just table this 22 report until that can be passed out to you? Hendrickson. 23 MS. HENDRICKSON: I move that we table the 24 Awards Committee report until we get a copy of the 25 biography of the two people that are being nominated for American Dairy Goat Association 192 1 emeriti and vote tomorrow or possibly Saturday morning if 2 it comes to that. 3 MS. SAUM: Okay, Hendrickson. Are you a 4 second Petersen? Okay. Okay. So we have a motion on the 5 floor to table the Awards Committee, and a second to that, 6 until after we have more information on the nominees. Are 7 we all clear on what's up for a motion? Okay. 8 Everybody in favor of tabling Awards 9 Committee until we have more information, please say 10 "aye." 11 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 12 MS. SAUM: Anyone opposed? (None.) 13 Abstentions? (None.) Gustafson. Okay. Sorry, Bob. 14 MS. GUSTAFSON: Before we leave that issue, 15 I think we need to determine if the information on page 16 16 is going to supersede what we have in the constitution. 17 The constitution in my opinion takes precedence over this, 18 and it states it shall not be a secret ballot. So that 19 needs to be decided. 20 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 21 MS. CAMPBELL: If we accept the Constitution 22 Committee report tomorrow and we view -- we will review 23 this information, and the decision could be made so that 24 it's very clear what the policy will be. 25 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Assuming that we American Dairy Goat Association 193 1 accept the Constitution Committee change, the only 2 difference between what would be before you tomorrow and 3 now is that we would then have something that we intend to 4 take to the membership. 5 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 6 MS. STRICKLAND: Looking at a couple of 7 notes from the Parliamentary 101, she talked about what 8 was custom, what you've always done, the way you've always 9 done it and that that was okay if it was not written 10 otherwise. And so now we get to where the bylaw says you 11 can do secret ballot, but the constitution does not 12 indicate that. So I would hope maybe that the EC with 13 their great parliamentarian experience could look at this 14 and give us a recommendation based on Robert's Rules when 15 this comes back to a vote. 16 MS. SAUM: Okay. Thank you, Strickland. 17 Anyone else on this point? Rucker. 18 MR. RUCKER: My purpose in bringing up this 19 is not my desire necessarily to not do secret ballot but 20 to comply with the constitution. I think there are ways 21 to adapt this so that we can accomplish the desire to do 22 it by ballot if that's our choice. You know, honorary 23 officer, you know, we're electing them as an officer, 24 whether it be honorary, if we determine director emeritus 25 is an honorary officer. It does give the board the power American Dairy Goat Association 194 1 to appoint other officers as needed. I think there's ways 2 around it, but I don't think without making some change 3 that we can do it by secret ballot. 4 MS. SAUM: This discussion has come up 5 previously, and I know previously it was decided by the 6 board that they're actually a director and that directors 7 are by secret ballot. I know that's the history of it. 8 The discussion has happened at the board meeting. 9 Altheide. 10 MR. ALTHEIDE: Well, in labor terms they 11 have what they refer to as past precedence, which means 12 that once you've done something, no matter what's written 13 in a contract, that becomes the way it's done. In the 14 past when this issue has come up the board has held that a 15 director emeriti is an election, and it is a de facto 16 officer of the association, so therefore, it would be by 17 secret ballot. 18 MS. SAUM: Anymore discussion on this at 19 this point? Okay. Then next on our alphabetical list is 20 Breed Standards. David Funk. 21 MR. FUNK: You have our committee report 22 before you, I believe, and I think we can move to "summary 23 of work done" for a moment. If you review this, the great 24 majority of this work refers to two items, the proposal on 25 the Nubian standard and the proposal -- and the proposal American Dairy Goat Association 195 1 which is prepared to come to the board relative to 2 clarifying the Alpine standard. 3 The committee voted by 11 to 3 not to 4 publish the Nubian proposal which had been presented to 5 us. They then voted 9 to 4 that we should ask INBA to 6 prepare a new proposal. They rejected the proposal to use 7 the one sent, after writing and soliciting approved pros 8 and cons, and the totals are there. Rejected a proposal 9 to prepare our own revision, including pros and cons, and 10 voted 13 to nothing not to do both, not to work on one 11 ourselves and ask INBA to prepare one. The proposal was 12 then sent back to INBA, and they have worked on it. 13 The other item that's here involved 14 correcting the wording of the Alpine standard, which has 15 been made inaccurate with the inclusion of Sables and 16 Nigerians. Specifically, the clause -- if you look down 17 in (H), the clause says they are the only breed with 18 upright ears that offers all colors and combinations of 19 colors. That clearly is an inaccurate statement at this 20 point. 21 The committee then has sent a proposal on 22 the Nubian standard relative to the knowns to the News & 23 Events so that a poll can be taken. We are presenting to 24 you for your approval the change in the Alpine standard. 25 We recommend the board change the Alpine standard in the American Dairy Goat Association 196 1 guidebook, substituting "The Alpine dairy goat is a medium 2 to large size animal, alertly graceful, with erect ears, 3 offering all colors and combinations of colors with 4 distinction and individuality of appearance" for the 5 present standard which says, "The Alpine dairy goat is a 6 medium to large size animal, alertly graceful, and the 7 only breed with upright ears that offers all colors and 8 combinations of colors giving them distinction and 9 individuality." 10 This is a change to come into confirmation 11 with fact. That is our proposal, and then work to be 12 completed next year, receiving results on the "Roman nose" 13 referendum and some other things that have been 14 communicated to me as possibilities that we will need to 15 deal with. 16 MS. SAUM: Okay. You have the motion before 17 you from the decisions requiring board action as the 18 striking of those words from the Alpine breed standard. 19 Does anybody have any questions or comments on the motion 20 coming from the committee? No? That's too easy. Okay. 21 All those in favor of striking the words "and the only 22 breed" from the Alpine breed standard. Everybody in favor 23 of that please say "aye." 24 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 25 MS. SAUM: Anyone opposed? No one opposed. American Dairy Goat Association 197 1 Any abstentions? No abstentions. So that motion has 2 passed. Senn. 3 MS. SENN: Would this be an appropriate time 4 to move the Sable and the Nigerian reference section to 5 this portion of the breed standards into the appropriate 6 place in the guidebook? 7 MR. FUNK: It would be. 8 MS. SENN: That would come under your 9 committee? 10 MR. FUNK: Yes, it would. Yes, it would, 11 and I would consider it being an appropriate place. It 12 had not been referred to our committee. We have not 13 worked on it. At one point in I think March I had 14 inquired whether we should be working on this, but it 15 wasn't given to us at that time. So tell me what your -- 16 MS. SENN: Well, if these have -- I thought 17 they had been approved by the Breed Standard Committee 18 previously. 19 MR. FUNK: They have been. 20 MS. SENN: And if they have been and there 21 is no proposed change to that, would it be an appropriate 22 time to move that to this section? 23 MR. FUNK: Okay. I think it would be 24 appropriate. I don't have my committee here to take it 25 to, but as was said before, you can make the motion. American Dairy Goat Association 198 1 MS. SENN: I make the motion that we move 2 the Nigerian and the Sable breed standards into the 3 appropriate section of the guidebook, which I don't have 4 it open to the exact page. 5 MR. FUNK: Move them to page 103 from page 6 119, I believe it is. Say that, move them from 119, the 7 2004 guidebook, to the appropriate area. 8 MS. SENN: Section in -- 9 MR. FUNK: On 203 -- on 103 and 104. 10 MS. SENN: Under section 16, "Breed 11 Standards." 12 MR. FUNK: Yes. 13 MS. SAUM: Is there a second to Karen's 14 motion? Hendrickson. 15 MS. HENDRICKSON: I will second. 16 MS. SAUM: Any discussion on moving the 17 Sables and Nigerians to pages 103 and 104? Berry. 18 MS. BERRY: Actually, that's great, and 19 that's what I was hoping would happen, but there is also 20 in the Nigerian Dwarf breeds we were going to change that 21 and take out the "Dwarf," but the defects are in there, 22 the breed specific defects, which should be in another 23 section as well. They should be with the show -- the 24 report of the defects in the show section, so there is 25 part of that wording in the breed standard section that American Dairy Goat Association 199 1 should also be added. I don't know if you'd want to do it 2 at the same time. 3 MS. SAUM: Karen Senn. 4 MS. SENN: There's -- we had some discussion 5 about lining those out appropriately as far as putting in 6 the evaluation of defects, both by Sable and the Nigerian. 7 I think you have coming out of your Registration Committee 8 with Donna Palmer the issue with the Sables, and we've had 9 some others, so we've got to get those evaluation of 10 defects in the appropriate section first before we move 11 them. I was just trying to do at least one piece so we 12 could have the reference. 13 MS. SAUM: So do you want to amend your 14 motion? 15 MR. FUNK: So say "including the 16 appropriate evaluation of defects"? 17 MS. SENN: I really wouldn't want to do that 18 at this point. I would like to at least have those lined 19 out for me so that I can -- and then I would be glad to 20 make that motion, but I need to have them lined out for 21 me. 22 MS. SAUM: So the intent, the intent is just 23 to have these two things -- 24 MS. SENN: And I would also follow up with 25 the evaluation of defects as well, but it -- American Dairy Goat Association 200 1 MS. SAUM: Okay. Make it separate. That's 2 fine. Okay. Berry. 3 MS. BERRY: I just want to comment that I 4 had Donna Palmer on my committee, Registration Committee, 5 and I tried to keep her focused on our committee, but 6 people kept approaching her with wanting her to do other 7 work, and I told her she needed to let the other 8 committees do their specific jobs, so that's why this got 9 a little bit confused this year. Thank you. 10 MS. SAUM: Rucker. 11 MR. RUCKER: I think the confusing point is 12 on the paragraph referring to Nigerian Dwarfs it includes 13 both the breed standard and the evaluation of defect, and 14 I think the intent of the motion is to move just the breed 15 standard at this time. 16 MS. BERRY: Okay. 17 MS. SAUM: Correct. Okay. Daubert. 18 MR. DAUBERT: The hope is over the next two 19 months before the new guidebook comes out is to make those 20 adjustments, send it to the correct committee chair, have 21 that committee chair review that, and then get them back 22 to Shirley to review before we get the new guidebook 23 published, but that's got to -- my plan in the New Breeds 24 Task Force is to get those things all broken out and get 25 them to the committee chairs. American Dairy Goat Association 201 1 MS. SAUM: Senn. 2 MS. SENN: To tell you the truth, with this 3 coming out in the immediate guidebook I really think it 4 would be very helpful, possibly for the entire board, with 5 this being used that we could get that all lined out as 6 the evaluation of defects and put them in the appropriate 7 places so we could have those prepared and sent out to 8 judges at the beginning of the year, and I know a couple 9 of them have been working on it, and perhaps we could get 10 this together and bring it to so you so we could see it as 11 far as a reference and perhaps we could accomplish that at 12 this earlier -- at this meeting as opposed to waiting 13 until the end of the year. 14 MS. SAUM: Rucker. 15 MR. RUCKER: It was suggested to me the 16 possibly we look at a small group -- I don't know if task 17 force is quite the right word -- of maybe somewhat from 18 the major areas like Production and Registration and maybe 19 an office staff to go through all of these motions to make 20 sure we're consistent in language, that we used "Dwarves" 21 consistently, that we used "miniature" consistently and 22 those are our choices of words, and bring it back as kind 23 of a -- you know, taking everything that we've done here, 24 bringing kind of like a conference committee with Congress 25 and Senate, and making sure that everything comes together American Dairy Goat Association 202 1 and bring it back to the board for a final review. 2 MS. SAUM: Okay. Any more discussion on the 3 motion by Senn to move these two items now on page 119, 4 the Nigerian Dwarf standard and the Sable breed standard, 5 to pages going to be 103 and 104, to where they belong now 6 that they are going to be accepted as a breed? Is there 7 anymore discussion on that particular motion? Daubert. 8 MR. DAUBERT: One item that's come up that 9 we have not discussed is how alphabetically are we going 10 to list them. There are things on that page which 11 reflects on how they're going to be on everything else. 12 Is the intent to do them alphabetically? 13 MS. SAUM: I would assume they will be 14 alphabetically like the other breeds are. Is that your 15 intent, Karen? So Nigerian would be before Nubian and 16 Sable would be after? 17 MS. SENN: Yes, I think at this point, yes, 18 that would be appropriate. That's fine. 19 MS. SAUM: Okay. Berry. 20 MS. BERRY: If you look at what I gave you 21 earlier about what we had written for the Sables and 22 Nigerians that I gave you just after lunch, that is what 23 we've done in those sections. 24 MS. SAUM: Okay. So are we ready to vote on 25 moving these two breed standards into the rest of the American Dairy Goat Association 203 1 breed standards? Everybody in favor of moving the 2 Nigerian Dwarf breed standard and the Sable breed standard 3 to pages 103 and 104, filed alphabetically, please say 4 "aye." 5 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 6 MS. SAUM: Anyone opposed? (None.) Any 7 abstentions? None? Okay. The motion passed. Daubert. 8 MR. DAUBERT: What Mr. Rucker suggested is 9 what the function of the New Breeds Task Force is. That's 10 what I had assumed, that the New Breeds Task Force was 11 going to be responsible for that. If that's not the 12 desire, we've already started working on that exact thing 13 as the task force. 14 MS. SAUM: Okay. Any other comments or 15 anything else? Altheide. 16 MR. ALTHEIDE: Last year the Registration 17 Committee moved and the board passed action that made show 18 ring disqualification, breed-specific show ring 19 disqualification, a registration disqualification. Has 20 the Breed Standard Committee considered any action 21 regarding items that are already breed standard -- breed 22 specific registration disqualifications that are not 23 currently show ring disqualifications? 24 MR. FUNK: I asked about going to this issue 25 and was told that I should hold off until we could work American Dairy Goat Association 204 1 the Registration Committee on this. I did give it 2 consideration. In January I had some communication, and 3 they said that Registration was working on this at this 4 point and rather than have duplication between the two 5 committees I should wait and then when we saw what they 6 had done, we worked together on it. 7 MS. SAUM: Berry. 8 MS. BERRY: Okay. Those were the proposals 9 that we made last year when we passed the breed-specific 10 disqualification for registration. I got that passed and 11 then everybody got lost on the subsequent four proposals. 12 They were in there, and it is my fault that they did not 13 get processed this year because we had other things and 14 the people I assigned it to, it didn't happen, but 15 actually, you're correct, George. That was -- those were 16 referred back, and we did not do that, and I was a little 17 bit concerned about whose job it was to work on those show 18 rules, so it certainly could come up again with 19 registration that that doesn't meet it. 20 MR. FUNK: Or with breed standards. 21 MS. BERRY: Yeah. 22 MR. FUNK: But I think we need direction as 23 to which committee really has responsibility for this. 24 MS. BERRY: Well, that was my concern, that 25 these were show ring, that I thought they might come under American Dairy Goat Association 205 1 actually Pete's committee, Shows, because it's in the show 2 rules section, and so there is some overlap there. 3 MR. FUNK: Like three committees worth. 4 MS. BERRY: Yeah. Yeah. 5 MR. FUNK: When everybody does something, 6 nobody does it. 7 MS. SAUM: George, do you have a preference 8 on who you want to refer that to or make it a formal 9 referral? 10 MR. ALTHEIDE: Well, I would request then 11 the Breed Standards Committee, because as I see this in 12 No. 5(e) under "Breed Standards" it says, "Proposed 13 changes as needed in score card to be used in evaluation 14 of bucks and does," and that -- to me that would fall 15 under breed standards, and I would request this be 16 referred to Breed Standards so we could have a consistency 17 for these items that we need to -- 18 MR. FUNK: Fine. 19 MR. ALTHEIDE: One should not outweigh the 20 other. 21 MS. SAUM: Okay. And he's accepting that 22 referral, and hopefully that will come before you next 23 year. 24 Anything else? Rucker. 25 MR. RUCKER: As a breeder of both Oberhasli American Dairy Goat Association 206 1 and Nigerians, I'm a little concerned about 5(b) for next 2 year, because to my knowledge neither breed club has 3 initiated a request for that. I realize our bylaws on 4 page 18 say that "organization or individuals wanting 5 changes in breed standards." I think part of the 6 confusion of the Nubian was that there were multiple 7 proposals, there were multipal presentations. 8 I would really like us to utilize the 9 strength of our breed clubs. They should be the ones 10 representing their breed to bring proposals to the -- the 11 changes to a breed standard. Not that a couple of 12 breeders can't get together and decide they want to 13 present something and have it go through the process. I 14 would just like to see it come from the breed club as a 15 protection of our breed standards. 16 MR. FUNK: Strickland. 17 MS. STRICKLAND: Which brings up a related 18 question. We have in our directory, our membership 19 directory, the national breed clubs listed, and so what I 20 need to know is does the board or does ADGA accept that 21 these are the breed clubs they will work with? Can these 22 breed clubs become two clubs? And then how do we know -- 23 it just says here an organization or an individual can 24 bring this information to the Breed Standards Committee, 25 but if we're looking now currently, as my understanding, American Dairy Goat Association 207 1 is there's two Oberhasli breed clubs. You know, do we 2 have that information? Are we recognizing both breed 3 clubs dealing with the officers? What's going on? 4 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 5 MR. ALTHEIDE: Well, I think really we can 6 cut to the heart of the question by the requirement that 7 we have that before there are changes in breed standards 8 that it be -- that it's referred to a poll of all those 9 members of ADGA who raise that breed, because I don't 10 think the breed standards belong to any particular breed 11 club or any group of breed clubs. They belong to those 12 people that are working with the breed, whether or not 13 they belong to the club or not. And, I mean, we already 14 have a requirement that changes in breed standards are 15 submitted to a poll of the ADGA membership working with 16 that breed. Not everybody belongs to their breed club. 17 MR. FUNK: I would -- I would try to clarify 18 it a little bit, and I think George pretty much hit it, 19 but anyone who is an ADGA member can make a proposal; and 20 if they write it up well enough, it comes to the committee 21 and as long as it was not initiated in the committee, as 22 long as it comes from a noncommittee member to this 23 committee, it has to go into the News & Events; and if 24 they don't get the correct number of votes of those voting 25 then it's dead. American Dairy Goat Association 208 1 So it doesn't matter whether it's the breed 2 club or whether it's six little people from one corner of 3 one county who decided they want to change the breed 4 standard. The fact is they send it to the committee, and 5 if they have adequate justification and if they have got 6 both pros and cons -- and that's part of the key here -- 7 it can go in to the News & Events. 8 Yes, on page 18, 5(a) it says "organizations 9 or individuals wanting changes" and they present them. 10 The committee doesn't vote whether they want -- whether 11 they agree with this proposal. The committee votes 12 whether it is adequately written and whether both sides 13 are presented. That's the vote the committee takes when 14 something -- can I finish this? When something comes to 15 the committee, the committee's vote at this point is does 16 it go to -- is it adequate to go to News & Events, not are 17 we in favor of it or against it. Only in cases of things 18 initiated by the committee, which we then see down further 19 in (c), (d), and (e), can the committee take an action and 20 bring a proposal here without it going into News & Events 21 and getting that support that's mentioned in (a) and (b). 22 So (a) and (b) basically says the committee 23 must recommend to the board if the majority of the 24 membership wants it, whether or not the committee is in 25 favor of it. The committee must put it in the News & American Dairy Goat Association 209 1 Events. The committee must then bring it to the board if 2 the poll shows the membership is in favor. 3 But anybody can send it to the committee. 4 If they do, if a group -- if a breed club or just a group 5 of members or an individual member send it, then they have 6 to be able to get support from the total membership before 7 it's brought by the committee to the board. That's the 8 key to these two, and those first two when they were 9 originally written were written so that the committee 10 couldn't prevent things from coming to the board if the 11 membership wanted it. That was the original intent. So 12 things couldn't get buttonholed in committee. 13 So you've got two different criteria here. 14 The clubs and the individuals who want something and 15 present it to the committee and it goes through the News & 16 Events, or the items mentioned in (c), (d), and (e), which 17 the committee initiates and can bring to the board and the 18 board can say, "We don't like it" or "We're in favor of 19 it." Yeah. 20 MS. SAUM: Berry. 21 MS. BERRY: So what you're just saying would 22 clarify the question about the Oberhasli breed clubs. 23 Because they are two clubs they each have the right to 24 present their proposal? 25 MR. FUNK: That's correct. American Dairy Goat Association 210 1 MS. SAUM: Any more discussion for breed 2 standards? Gustafson. 3 MS. GUSTAFSON: This comes from a couple of 4 situations I have run into this year, and I'd like to see 5 some new work for the Breed Standard Committee. In regard 6 to the LaMancha ear if you look in the breed standards it 7 says "approximately." I have hit situations where what is 8 the definition of "approximately"? If you want to bring 9 like the breeders, the judges, the linear appraisers, 10 everybody, we all need to work on the same measurement 11 rather than in one show a judge says, "This animal can 12 stay in the ring" and the other one the judge says, "No, 13 she has to go, it's over two inches" and the other one 14 saying, "No, approximately, it's close enough to two 15 inches." So to work on possibly some of the LaMancha 16 groups and find some clarification on this matter. 17 MR. FUNK: If the board gives us direction 18 to do this we'll do it. I'll tell you right now, I went 19 through this issue 25 years ago. It wasn't fun then. I 20 would be willing to do it if the board says do it. 21 Otherwise, I'll speak to my committee. 22 MS. SAUM: Gustafson. 23 MS. GUSTAFSON: May I make a motion then 24 that the Breed Standards Committee address the issue of 25 the LaMancha ear and the wording of "approximately" and American Dairy Goat Association 211 1 how this ear is to be measured, as it is on the goat or 2 you fold the flip up or down or however. 3 MS. SAUM: Do we have a second to Gustafson? 4 Strickland. Any discussion on the motion to refer the 5 LaMancha ear length and style, up or down, to the Breed 6 Standards Committee? No? All those in favor of referring 7 that to committee please say "aye." 8 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 9 MS. SAUM: Any opposed? One opposed. 10 Daniel Considine. Two, George Altheide. Any other 11 opposed? Abstentions? No abstentions. That will be 12 referred to committee. I see timeouts. Does anybody have 13 anything else? Proctor. 14 MS. PROCTOR: I'd like to make a motion that 15 this committee bring one photograph of a dish-faced Nubian 16 before we're asked to vote on it. 17 MR. FUNK: Guess what, I think we're going 18 to -- I think that's going to happen. 19 MS. PROCTOR: That would be nice. 20 MR. FUNK: Right now you notice there's 21 nothing about nose or face in our recommendations, but my 22 understanding from the INBA is that before anything comes 23 they will have things to show us. That's the best I can 24 do. 25 MS. PROCTOR: I have not talked to a judge American Dairy Goat Association 212 1 who has ever seen one. 2 MS. NIXON: She specified a photograph. 3 What I understand is in the works are drawings, and that's 4 very different from a photograph. 5 MR. FUNK: You're right. 6 MS. SAUM: Senn is shaking her head yes, 7 that that's right. 8 MS. SENN: Right. What we're working on is 9 an artist's rendering, not an actual photograph; but 10 Vivian's asking for an actual photograph, which we haven't 11 seen yet. We are having an artist rendering done. 12 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 13 MS. STRICKLAND: We don't believe we heard a 14 second to the motion we're discussing. 15 MS. SAUM: That's a point of order. Yes. 16 Thank you. Is there a second to Vivian's motion that she 17 would like to see an actual photograph? 18 MS. SENN: Second. 19 MS. SAUM: Senn seconds the motion. The 20 motion before you is to have an actual photograph of a 21 dish-faced Nubian before you present it. I think she's 22 saying have it. 23 MR. FUNK: You don't mean like to see -- you 24 mean you make the motion that we not take action until we 25 have a photograph? American Dairy Goat Association 213 1 MS. PROCTOR: That's right. 2 MR. FUNK: I just want to make sure. 3 MS. PROCTOR: Until you have it and present 4 it. We want to look at it. 5 MR. FUNK: Well, I would present it if this 6 passes. 7 MS. SAUM: Okay. Altheide. 8 MR. ALTHEIDE: I would suggest people turn 9 to page 106, breed-specific defects, very serious defects, 10 Nubian dish-faced. Our trainers are supposed to be 11 teaching this already. It's already in the guidebook. A 12 dish-faced idea is nothing new. Perhaps they're not 13 common. I did not take a picture of the one that was born 14 on my place, but it was a dish-faced. Fortunately it was 15 dead, so I didn't have to look at it and make Daniel's 16 meat trap, but they do exist. 17 MS. SAUM: Okay. Are we clear on the motion 18 from Proctor and a second by Senn? The motion before you 19 is that she would like the committee to have a picture. 20 MR. FUNK: She would require, not she would 21 like. 22 MS. SAUM: She would require they have a 23 photograph of a dish-faced Nubian before they recommend 24 action to the board, and she wants the photograph 25 presented to the board if they would bring that before us. American Dairy Goat Association 214 1 We're all clear? Anymore discussion on that 2 motion? All those in favor please say "aye." 3 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 4 MS. SAUM: Anyone opposed to the picture? 5 Opposed, Altheide, Daubert, Rucker, Gustafson. 6 Any abstentions? Strickland, Reyna, Daniel 7 Considine. Okay. The motion passed. Bring a picture, 8 Dave. 9 MR. FUNK: I take it then it is the sense of 10 the board that regardless of what INBA presents to our 11 committee we must communicate to them that nothing they 12 present will be acceptable, including drawings, without a 13 photograph of an actual dish-faced Nubian. Is that 14 correct? 15 BOARD MEMBERS: Yes. 16 MR. FUNK: Okay. 17 MS. SAUM: Anything else for the breed 18 standards? I see people giving me timeouts and crossing 19 their legs, so we'll take a break. It's 20 after 3:00 20 according to this clock up here. I don't know what your 21 watches say. We'll take a 20-minute break. When we come 22 back the next thing should be history. 23 (Recess from 3:20 p.m. to 3:36 p.m.) 24 MS. SAUM: I think most of the directors are 25 here in the room, so if we can go ahead after our break, American Dairy Goat Association 215 1 and the next thing up is Shari Reyna with History 2 Committee. 3 MS. REYNA: I imagine that you all read my 4 report, so there's not much point in my going over the 5 activities of the History Committee, and indeed probably 6 the most important part to talk to you about are the 7 problems encountered. It was -- you know, the history 8 behind this is that we've spent years now trying to get 9 ADGA's ancient and damaged registration cards -- or, 10 actually, there are a lot more than registration, but 11 information cards, everything previous to the 12 mid-Seventies, which is not on our computer, we have been 13 trying to get it into the National Agricultural Library, 14 and we were indeed accepted many years ago. They said 15 they would be glad to have our records and so on. A 16 series of issues over the years, which we shall not 17 discuss at the moment, kept this from occurring; and 18 unfortunately in the interim, you know, the world has 19 changed. 20 The current administration in Washington has 21 not been very good to the National Agricultural Library. 22 They no longer have the funding that they used to have. 23 They also decided we weren't really serious or we would 24 have dealt with this a long time ago, so Gary finally -- 25 Gary Moore, who has a history as an archival librarian as American Dairy Goat Association 216 1 well as an IM committee member, had been trying and trying 2 and trying for three years with no luck in getting 3 through; and he finally said, "Shari, just go for it. I'm 4 too busy on the IM." 5 I literally called them about 20 times over 6 the period of a week and just said after being told over 7 and over they wouldn't talk to me I said, "You will or 8 give me a supervisor" or something, and finally I was able 9 to talk to the person that had the power to do this. I 10 convinced her that we were indeed serious about this, that 11 we had not abandoned the effort, but we had had some 12 problems, and found that they were indeed still really 13 excited about having our stuff. 14 This is the appropriate place, the National 15 Agricultural Library, the most prestigious livestock 16 archival facility in the country. However, at this 17 time -- and I'm happy also to report that Shirley tells me 18 that the boxes of these very important cards that we 19 packaged last year have been sent, and did you get a 20 return response, I'm assuming, Shirley from the NAL that 21 they received the boxes? 22 MS. McKENZIE: (Nods negatively.) 23 MS. REYNA: No? 24 MS. McKENZIE: Not yet. 25 MS. REYNA: We'll pursue that. It hasn't American Dairy Goat Association 217 1 been very long. At any rate, what they told me is they 2 would preserve, protect, and they will provide the 3 necessary information to the ADGA office. I was concerned 4 that if they had no money to start cataloging these that 5 we would not have access if we needed access to these 6 records. They assured me that they would do primary 7 archival -- put them into a primary archival search 8 situation, and although members probably won't be able to 9 get direct access, that the office, if Shirley calls them, 10 they will be in a situation to give her whatever 11 information that she needs. 12 Then she told me what their options are. 13 They want to give us online access to these records. They 14 do not yet know their budgetary projections for the next 15 year, and a great deal will probably rest on the election. 16 But the possibilities include the posting of our 17 information by a library intern as a project or 18 assignment, which would be no cost to us. They don't have 19 very many interns right now, and they don't know if they 20 will have very many in the future. Ordinarily there are a 21 number of scholarships. They have interns that choose 22 projects, and we would have a chance at that particular 23 way of getting our information online. 24 Second is funding of the data entry through 25 an educational or livestock preservation grant, something American Dairy Goat Association 218 1 that I do plan to pursue. And, three, either/or of the 2 first two, augmented by some level of funding from ADGA; 3 and I did put a note here that Gary Moore has volunteered 4 when he gets home that he'll go down and sort of 5 facilitate the archiving of our materials. The other 6 problem is the History Chair was contacted by members who 7 were concerned about the reassignment of herd names that 8 they felt should be preserved as historic. The one I 9 recall was I was contacted about -- 10 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Rio Linda. 11 MS. REYNA: No, that wasn't the main one. 12 It was Rex talked to me about a LaMancha. What was it? 13 Blue Diamond, which has been reassigned to a youth member, 14 and all I could tell him, that at this point there wasn't 15 much we could do about it unless somebody wanted to buy it 16 back, but there are a number of other herd names that have 17 been passed on. Now, I realize there will be a lot of 18 this about herd names coming from another committee; 19 however, it is something that I think we need to address 20 during this committee report. 21 Decisions requiring board action. The 22 committee requests permission during the coming year to 23 carefully compile a list of herd names with potential 24 historic significance, this list to be held for a period 25 of 10 years in order to provide the opportunity for a American Dairy Goat Association 219 1 nomination to be prepared. The committee vote was 12 yes, 2 1 no, and 1 nonresponse. And the rationale is that though 3 we realize -- we certainly don't want any undocumented 4 historic herd names. 5 I have been trying for two years simply to 6 document the ones I have so I can present something to 7 you, and I have -- but I'm not ready yet. I wanted to do 8 it in the centennial year, hasn't happened, and I will be 9 doing an awards workshop on Friday. We now have forms for 10 nomination for awards and for historic herd names. They 11 are on the website. There are instructions, and I think 12 this gives members a lot more confidence in going ahead to 13 present these to the Awards Committee. So this one is -- 14 we take this one by one, I assume. 15 MS. SAUM: Okay. You have the proposal from 16 the committee. Under "Decisions requiring board action" 17 they request permission during the coming year to 18 carefully compile a list of herd names with potential 19 historic significance, and this list to be held for a 20 period of 10 years in order to provide the opportunity for 21 a nomination to be prepared. Anybody have any questions 22 or comments on that? Rucker. 23 MR. RUCKER: Could this possibly be 24 premature until we decide -- the Membership Committee's 25 report is handled? Could we revisit this during the American Dairy Goat Association 220 1 membership committee depending on what happens in that 2 area? Bozzo. 3 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: I think this is a 4 separate issue that we should address right now. 5 MS. SAUM: Daniel Considine. 6 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: I'm not clear from 7 what I heard and what I read how this would be handled 8 mechanically. You'd prepare a list of you envision 20, 30 9 names or something, and you give it to Shirley and then 10 while assigning herd names would treat those just like 11 they were as star herd names and in the meantime that's 12 all you envision? 13 MS. REYNA: What we envision is we would 14 give these to Shirley, and they would be set aside for a 15 period of time to allow members or members of the History 16 Committee time to either do a nomination or not, but we 17 wouldn't then hopefully be having this situation where a 18 herd name that virtually everyone agrees is historic 19 reassigned and upsetting people. 20 MS. SAUM: Anymore discussion on this issue? 21 Are we ready to vote? All those in favor please say 22 "aye." 23 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 24 MS. SAUM: Anyone opposed? 25 MS. PROCTOR: No. American Dairy Goat Association 221 1 MS. SAUM: Proctor is a "no." Any 2 abstentions? (None.) The motion passed. 3 MS. REYNA: Thank you. The committee 4 requests that any remainder of the funds that were made 5 available to the History Committee some years back be 6 allocated to the processing of our records at NAL. I have 7 put down here the original funds that were allocated for 8 this purpose and the amounts that have been taken out and 9 why. The total remaining is about $3,350. 10 This would go a long way towards the 11 preservation of our materials at NAL, and I do think that 12 their funding situation is serious, and I guess this just 13 depends how important this is to us, but this -- these 14 funds were allocated to the History Committee for this 15 purpose with the approval of the EC, but I thought in this 16 case that you should all know what the information is, and 17 it's at your pleasure. 18 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 19 MS. CAMPBELL: I'm not opposed to the 20 motion, but my concern is this leaves the committee with 21 no operating budget unless we put something into place for 22 a continuation for operating budget. 23 MS. REYNA: Frankly, if my family ever finds 24 out how much I've contributed to the History Committee, I 25 might be -- perhaps not divorced, I'm not married -- but I American Dairy Goat Association 222 1 could certainly be thrown out. I had just simply accepted 2 I would rather the money would go towards preserving our 3 records. I'll eat the rest of the expenses if I'm chair. 4 MS. SAUM: Altheide was next. 5 MR. ALTHEIDE: First up, to deal with what 6 Linda just said, it was my understanding that the 5,000 is 7 for preservation. It's not for a committee operating 8 budget, and the one question I had, the money would go 9 directly to NAL? 10 MS. REYNA: Yes. 11 MS. SAUM: Daubert. 12 MR. DAUBERT: I move we accept motion two. 13 MS. SAUM: Considine. I need more 14 discussion on that. It's not clear to me how this would 15 proceed and whether that much money does anything, if that 16 much money is added to grants then we pay it out. I'm in 17 agreement that this is a reasonable thing to do, but I 18 wouldn't want $3,300 of ADGA's money to go to the library 19 and then find out that it wasn't a project that was 20 helpful in preserving our materials that could be done for 21 that and we had sent the money anyway. 22 MR. DAUBERT: Point of order. 23 BOARD MEMBER: It didn't get seconded. 24 MR. DAUBERT: So there's no discussion. 25 MS. SAUM: We're still discussing the motion American Dairy Goat Association 223 1 on the floor. 2 MS. CAMPBELL: It's in front of you as a 3 committee. 4 MS. REYNA: In my discussion with Susan 5 Fewbit, who is the appropriate person at NAL, any money 6 that we could put towards the preservation would be used 7 just for that purpose. It might not complete the job, but 8 it would go a long ways. You have to realize that these 9 records are in very, very poor shape. Pat Morford and I 10 went to the office last year, and we did box them, but 11 there had been a leak in the office. A bunch of them were 12 not wet but damp, and even before that there are groups of 13 -- these cards are like three by five, four by six, and 14 pieces like this long (indicating) were fused together 15 with mold. 16 You know, if you take them apart you're 17 going to lose information, and the information on here is 18 not simply pedigree information. This information on 19 there has show records. It has milk records. It has 20 progeny. It has transfers. There is all of this 21 information, and we don't want to lose any more. 22 So the idea is that they would be able to 23 start pulling these apart, trying to preserve them, and at 24 least beginning to make them more accessible to us. These 25 are our records, and they are not available to us anywhere American Dairy Goat Association 224 1 else, and everything gets destroyed in the meantime. 2 There is also our very first registry book 3 that went in here, and it is so fragile I was -- I wanted 4 to copy some stuff in there. I was afraid -- Chris was 5 there with me. She would tell you that it is so fragile 6 it is just crumbling, and in that situation they can put 7 it -- you know, preserve it in an airtight situation. 8 They can make us a copy, but those are the 9 sort of things that they could do for us, and, yes, and 10 somebody asked me is this a one-time request. That's the 11 money that's there. You know, this isn't a recurrent 12 thing. This is a one-time, the money is there. We would 13 like to give it to them to start the process to allow us 14 to preserve our records. 15 MS. SAUM: We need to stop just one second 16 and let our court reporter change tapes. 17 (Off the record briefly.) 18 MS. SAUM: Okay. We're all set. 19 Strickland. 20 MS. STRICKLAND: Would it be a consideration 21 to possibly get a letter from NAL of an understanding that 22 this money was being donated or given for that particular 23 effort and, you know, not to step on their toes because 24 they so graciously accepted our records, but just 25 something that's in writing that would then assure the American Dairy Goat Association 225 1 board that that's where the money is going to be used and 2 so on? 3 MS. REYNA: This was actually already 4 suggested they do this. There will be a statement of 5 agreement, and that's what Gary has offered to do as soon 6 as the meeting is over, is to go there and work out this 7 statement of agreement with them, and Kristi asked me, 8 which is a very good question, if we would need to be 9 donating this every year. They have not asked us for 10 that. 11 It is a possibility that sometime in the 12 future they might ask us for some access fees or something 13 of that nature. They have not done that, and we are -- 14 right now we are just trying to make sure that our 15 materials don't deteriorate any further. 16 I fully intend to pursue some grant money. 17 Gary is going to see what he can do. We will certainly 18 try to get interns. We may find scholarship kids that 19 want it, but this is a job for professionals. We need to 20 have it done professionally, and this was -- just seemed 21 like this money would at least be seed money to get it 22 started. So I'm not trying to set a precedent. Just use 23 it. 24 MS. SAUM: Nixon. 25 MS. NIXON: And I am correct, Shari, in that American Dairy Goat Association 226 1 these records were not included in the original 2 computerization of ADGA, so if these records are lost they 3 are lost forever? They are not in our database at the 4 present time? 5 MS. REYNA: Because I haven't had time to go 6 back, we have all these unlabeled microfiche. 7 Theoretically, all our registration certificates before 8 they were burned were microfiched. On the other hand, 9 they just hired somebody off the street to do that, and 10 there are no labels on these, so I don't know, so -- and 11 also, all those have are the pedigree information. They 12 do not have any of the rest of this information. 13 MS. SAUM: Berry. 14 MS. BERRY: Sheila, when I was back there, 15 and I have talked to Shari about this before, my 16 observation in working with Don Wilson and with Stephen 17 Considine earlier was that these were not all transferred 18 into the database and that there was a great deal of 19 information, early AR records, early registry records, 20 that were not transferred and that a lot of this 21 information that was put on microfiche was not available 22 either. So it's on these little three by five file cards 23 in these boxes she described, and they were in poor 24 condition when I was there 15, 18 years ago. 25 MS. REYNA: And it's rained a couple of American Dairy Goat Association 227 1 times since then. 2 MS. SAUM: Okay. Anymore discussion on 3 this? Are we ready for the question? Proctor. 4 MS. PROCTOR: Who else -- to whom else are 5 these records available once they're stored other than 6 ADGA? 7 MS. REYNA: At this time they will be 8 available to no one but the ADGA office. Eventually they 9 will be put on an online system. We could use them for 10 research. 11 MS. PROCTOR: Who else? Anybody? 12 MS. REYNA: I believe that because we're a 13 nonprofit corporation that virtually all our records are 14 public information, and I doubt very seriously that we 15 could restrict information on these old pedigrees. I 16 could be wrong, but that is very likely the case, Vivian. 17 MS. SAUM: Okay. Just so we're all clear on 18 the motion that the $3,300 was funds left from the money 19 that was allocated several years ago, so if you are able 20 to get this done before the end of the year it will be on 21 this year's budget. This figure is not reflected in any 22 of the budget stuff that Phil went over with you this 23 year. Okay. Cassette. 24 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: I can make a motion if 25 you want, but I would really like to see -- or maybe the American Dairy Goat Association 228 1 chair can accept it, what Chris Strickland said about 2 having a statement of understanding of where this money 3 went. Without that I think I'm going to have to vote 4 against it. 5 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Yeah. 6 MS. REYNA: We absolutely had no intention 7 of sending them any money until we have this statement of 8 cooperation. 9 MS. SAUM: So Shari is accepting that, your 10 amendment, that upon receipt of a letter from them stating 11 exactly what they're going to do with our funds then the 12 money will be sent, is that correct, and you're accepting 13 that as chair of the committee? 14 MS. REYNA: I'm accepting that. 15 MS. SAUM: Okay. Strickland seconding that. 16 Do we need a second for that since the chair accepted it? 17 I don't think we do. Okay. We don't. Bozzo. 18 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: I would also like to 19 make sure that someone on the staff of the EC reviews the 20 letter prior to the money going to the NAL. 21 MS. REYNA: Sure. 22 MS. SAUM: Okay. Are we ready for the 23 question? Do you have a comment, Chris, or are you ready 24 for the question? Comment? 25 MS. STRICKLAND: Just information, in American Dairy Goat Association 229 1 Parliamentary 101 she told us when you make the motion or 2 it comes from the committee it's not yours anyway and so 3 any amendments have to go through the amendment motion 4 process. 5 MS. REYNA: This has already been discussed 6 with committee, so it was the fault of my not having yet 7 taken the parliamentary session at writing a complete 8 motion. In the future I shall read the recommendations 9 and do a much better job. 10 MS. NIXON: Hallelujah. 11 MS. SAUM: Okay. So I think we're ready for 12 the vote now on the second item that's presented by the 13 History Committee that they request that the remainder of 14 their funds, which is -- she has $3,349.46 be sent to the 15 NAL after receipt of a letter from them indicating what 16 they will do with those funds and then upon review of the 17 EC committee that they will get their check. Are we all 18 clear on that? All in favor of this motion please say 19 "aye." 20 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 21 MS. SAUM: Any opposed? Proctor, Korhonen. 22 Any other opposition? Abstentions? (None.) 23 Okay. The motion passed. 24 MS. REYNA: The committee requests that the 25 pioneer program be placed formally under the umbrella of American Dairy Goat Association 230 1 the History Committee. The committee vote was 12 yes, one 2 no, and one nonresponse, and the rationale is that this 3 program begun by Sheila Nixon is a much needed effort to 4 videotape ADGA members who have contributed to the 5 interest of ADGA. She bought the camera. I have donated 6 my time. I have donated my trip to the National Show to 7 work on these. I would have done more if I hadn't been 8 working on awards. This is an opportunity, and we're not 9 really asking for anything. Sheila will stay in charge of 10 it, but we would like it to be under the aegis of the 11 History Committee because it needs a place in ADGA. 12 MS. SAUM: Cassette. 13 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Shari, are you asking 14 that on page 19 under the "history," that there be a 15 description like comes under "awards" about the program? 16 Is that -- or you just want a general intent? I'm a 17 little unsure when you say "formally." I'm not -- could 18 you just clarify are you looking on page 19 to add the 19 pioneer program with a description underneath the history? 20 MS. REYNA: Once again, without Sheila's 21 program of parliamentary procedure my motion is not 22 exactly complete. I had not thought whether it needed to 23 be formally put into the C&BL or not. What the committee 24 discussed was simply that this program needed to be 25 accepted by the board as having a place in ADGA. At this American Dairy Goat Association 231 1 time it's just sort of floating out there, and is -- we 2 would like it to be taken more seriously. There would be 3 no -- it would be sort of nice to simply acknowledge under 4 the description of the History Committee that this program 5 exists, but mostly we're asking for your -- what's the 6 word -- support. 7 MS. SAUM: Berry. 8 MS. BERRY: I would actually encourage that 9 it would be added to this, because historically sometimes 10 we make these decisions and we don't put them in here and 11 then later we say, "Gee, who made that decision" and, you 12 know, we don't have any record of it, so my suggestion 13 would be that it be added. 14 MS. REYNA: Because this is -- 15 MS. SAUM: She killed it. (Indicating) 16 MS. REYNA: I killed it. I was turned off, 17 and Joanie was nowhere close. 18 MS. SAUM: It's saying "low battery." 19 MS. REYNA: I simply wore it out. Since 20 this is my motion I can accept this as an amendment and do 21 so. 22 MS. SAUM: Nixon. 23 MS. NIXON: I have an interest in this, and 24 I probably should speak. After you've been around a long 25 time you have some stature in the association or among the American Dairy Goat Association 232 1 people, and I simply have bluffed this program into 2 acceptance at two ADGA annual meetings. I felt it was 3 something that ADGA needed to do, and I labeled it and I 4 did it, and I have become very insecure in that there is 5 -- I have no leverage. I have absolutely no leverage. 6 Any host committee can say, "We have no space for you on 7 the program" and the program will not happen, and I can't 8 do it by myself. 9 It is a far bigger project than I ever 10 thought it would be, and I think the proper place for this 11 program if ADGA likes it and wants to continue it is with 12 the History Committee because it is an experiential 13 history of the association and its members. And so I 14 certainly would like for you to, if you like the program, 15 would like -- this is the place it needs to be, and then 16 we would have the leverage to say to a host group, "This 17 is an official ADGA program, and you need to find us a 18 spot to have it." Sankey. 19 MS. SANKEY: I would like to make a 20 recommendation that this pioneer program become a part of 21 the ADGA convention such as our judges training, you know, 22 those programs that are part of our annual convention. 23 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Second. 24 MS. SAUM: Point of order. We need -- let's 25 finish with Shari's motion and then we'll come back to American Dairy Goat Association 233 1 yours, Charlotte. 2 MS. SANKEY: Okay. 3 MS. SAUM: Petersen. 4 MS. PETERSEN: I'm for this, but I would 5 like to know the wording that you're wanting the motion to 6 be made to be put into the guidebook instead of just 7 saying, "Yeah, we'll put something there." 8 MS. SAUM: Okay. Shari is up here saying we 9 don't have exact wording for the area of the guidebook, 10 and Shari is accepting that we, the board, accept it in 11 concept and that the wording will come to the EC for 12 approval and be put in the guidebook under "History." Is 13 that okay with everybody? 14 MR. DAUBERT: Call the question. 15 MS. SAUM: The question has been called. Is 16 everybody ready to vote? Item No. 3, the committee 17 requests the pioneer program be placed formally under the 18 umbrella of the History Committee. We're going to accept 19 that in concept. The History Committee will come to us 20 with wording to put in the guidebook, and the EC will 21 approve it. All those in favor say "aye." 22 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 23 MS. SAUM: Anone opposed? 24 MS. PROCTOR: No. 25 MS. SAUM: Proctor is a "no." Any American Dairy Goat Association 234 1 abstentions? Okay. The motion passed. 2 MS. REYNA: I thank you for your patience. 3 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Hold on. One more. 4 MS. SAUM: Okay. Charlotte Sankey, now 5 we're ready. 6 MS. SANKEY: I would like to make a motion 7 that the pioneer program become an annual part of our 8 annual meeting and occur annually such as our judges 9 training program. 10 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Second. 11 MS. SAUM: Okay. We have a motion from 12 Charlotte Sankey, seconded up here by Bozzo, that the 13 pioneer program become a formal part of our ADGA 14 convention. Am I right? Okay. Any comments on that? 15 None? 16 MR. DAUBERT: Call the question. 17 MS. SAUM: We're ready to vote. All those 18 in favor please say "aye." 19 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 20 MS. SAUM: Anyone opposed? (None.) Any 21 abstentions? (None.) Okay. The motion passed. Anything 22 else further for the History Committee? Shari ran back to 23 her chair. 24 Okay. This is an efficient hotel. They 25 have it fixed already. Strickland. American Dairy Goat Association 235 1 MS. STRICKLAND: I just think that we as a 2 board should give our History chair some recognition for 3 all the hundreds, maybe thousands, of hours she's put in 4 in this centennial year. The articles she's written for 5 UCN, the research that's been done, the presentations 6 she's done, and just an incredible amount of research 7 considering how scattered the records are and to come to 8 any copious of articles on it, she's done a great job, and 9 we need to let her know that. 10 (Applause.) 11 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Okay. The president 12 is the chairman of the next committee, and she stepped 13 down and asked me to fill in for this, so at this time 14 Robin Saum is going to present the Judges Committee 15 report. 16 MS. SAUM: This is a good report. It's very 17 brief, and that's a good thing on this committee since 18 it's basically the complaints committee. The only 19 complaint that I have received up to a couple of days ago 20 were two complaints. The first one was resolved between 21 the Show Committee and the judge, and the second complaint 22 was sent to the committee and the committee voted six that 23 it was not justified, one was justified, one not voting, 24 and one requested additional information. Both parties 25 were informed of the committee vote, and they understood American Dairy Goat Association 236 1 that there was no further action. 2 Just so you know that within the last 10 3 days I received two more complaints. One I did get out to 4 the judge before the convention, and that judge is aware, 5 and we're awaiting his response. The second one will go 6 out when I go home, or the next chair of this committee 7 will go out. Any questions on what the Judges Committee 8 has done this year? 9 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Now, see, wasn't my 10 job really easy? I really thank you guys for all the 11 support. Thanks. 12 (Applause.) 13 MS. SAUM: Next in the alphabet is Linear. 14 Allen, are you ready for the Linear? Oh, it's judges 15 training. I'm sorry. It's Steve Considine and Karen 16 Senn, and they requested tomorrow afternoon. Kempe. 17 MS. KEMPE: Okay. If I got this class I did 18 yesterday right, I can now take off the table the Awards 19 Committee. Can I make a motion we do so? 20 MS. SAUM: Yes. Seconded by Altheide that 21 we take the Awards Committee off the table. All those in 22 favor please say "aye." 23 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 24 MS. SAUM: Anyone opposed? No opposition. 25 Any abstentions? (None.) Okay. The motion passed, and American Dairy Goat Association 237 1 we're back to the Awards Committee. 2 Bob, do you want to come on back up? Is my 3 Tally Committee still here? I've got Bruce Foster, 4 Cynthia, Mr. Moore is there in the back, and is Andrea 5 still in the room? No, but I see John Pfeiler is saying 6 he would like to volunteer to help with Tally Committee. 7 Stand right up there. There you go. Okay. We'll leave 8 the lights on for you, John. 9 MR. ROBERT CASSETTE: Okay. You have been 10 provided with the nomination material, and so the 11 questions that came up earlier is now on the table. 12 MS. NIXON: Thank you. Thank you, Bob. 13 MS. SAUM: I guess we'll just do them in the 14 order that they came from committee, and the first one is 15 David Funk, and you guys have all gotten his, and we're 16 passing out the ballots now. 17 BOARD MEMBER: No. 18 MS. SAUM: I heard a "no." 19 Okay. Your vote on your ballot is either 20 going to be "yes" or "no." If you vote "yes" on this 21 ballot, then that will be for David Funk for director 22 emeriti, if you vote "yes." If you vote "no," the vote 23 will be, no, you do not want to nominate Dave Funk as a 24 director emeriti. Just so we're all clear on yes/no, what 25 we're doing. Is there any questions about how to vote? American Dairy Goat Association 238 1 Not how to vote, but what is the process. 2 (Laughter.) 3 MS. SAUM: Okay. Everybody getting their 4 ballots? There we go. Gustafson. 5 MS. GUSTAFSON: For the record, I would 6 still like verification in this record at this point as to 7 why this is being done by secret ballot rather than as the 8 constitution requires. 9 MS. SAUM: Just for the record, this is how 10 we have done it in the past, and according to 11 parliamentary procedure, that is acceptable. If someone 12 does not want to do that then it will take a majority vote 13 to change that. Reyna. 14 MS. REYNA: According to a parliamentarian, 15 unless I misunderstood Jeff Henergan, custom rules unless 16 there is something to the contrary, and I would think -- 17 and I'm not arguing either way, but I believe that we do 18 have something written to the contrary. 19 MS. SAUM: Anyone else? Campbell. 20 MS. CAMPBELL: I was just going to comment 21 that when we added this to our bylaws and made it a 22 specific -- I'm looking for that page. 23 MS. PETERSEN: 16. 24 MS. CAMPBELL: 16, thank you. The intent of 25 the board at that time was to make the interpretation that American Dairy Goat Association 239 1 we intended this to be handled the same as an election 2 process, so we are electing these to the board as 3 directors emeriti. So that's why we put the explanation 4 in the bylaws specifically that addresses it to be done by 5 secret ballot. So that's why the word "election" was 6 used, since it's used in the constitution as an election. 7 I understand the concern about 8 interpretation, and I think that can be addressed when 9 we -- for the next event we should address that 10 appropriately when the Constitution Committee presents 11 that, but it's just my opinion that it is addressed 12 sufficiently already. 13 MS. SAUM: Rucker, and then Berry. 14 MR. RUCKER: My concern is the constitution 15 is very clear that only officers may be elected by secret 16 ballot. Then on page six, Article VII, it actually 17 clearly defines what an officer is. Director emeritus is 18 not listed as an officer, and that's my concern. Now, it 19 does indicate that we as a board can determine other 20 officers, and so if we do want to determine the director 21 emeritus as a de facto officer or something along that 22 line I think we can comply with the constitution and do 23 the secret ballot, but until we do such thing I think 24 we're in violation of the constitution. 25 MS. SAUM: Berry. American Dairy Goat Association 240 1 MS. BERRY: I would argue the opposite, Tom. 2 Because directors emeritus have a duty to be here or to 3 advise the board, this is more than an award. There 4 actually is a responsibility connected with this, which is 5 spelled out in the constitution, that we have a role that 6 we are expected to play. 7 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 8 MR. ALTHEIDE: Well, I would agree with 9 Lelia, and I believe that we have already done that; and 10 if I'm not mistaken, it was 1999 in Ohio when we added the 11 section to the bylaws specifically to deal with this that 12 they were considered as an officer and it was an election 13 and to be by secret ballot. So I think the board, I 14 believe it was 1999 in Ohio, made it clear. 15 MS. SAUM: Rucker. 16 MR. RUCKER: Lelia, humor me, and I would 17 like to move that we are going to declare that a director 18 emeritus will be determined as an officer, an honorary 19 officer of the association, and then we may continue to 20 vote for them by secret ballot. 21 I'm not concerned whether it's secret or 22 not. I'm just concerned that we comply with the 23 constitution. The constitution says we only elect 24 officers and defines what the officers are. It doesn't 25 list director emeritus. We have the ability to define American Dairy Goat Association 241 1 what an officer is. I think we can do this to do it the 2 way we want to do it and also comply with the 3 constitution. That's all I'm trying to do. 4 MS. SAUM: Okay. Are there any objections 5 to Tom's statement that director emeriti are honorary 6 officers? Am I using my terms -- 7 MR. RUCKER: It's a motion. 8 MS. SAUM: It's a motion. I need a second 9 then. Strickland is the second to that. Sorry, it was 10 the first hand that went up. Any discussion on the motion 11 by Tom that the director emeriti be considered a -- 12 MR. RUCKER: Honorary officer. 13 MS. SAUM: -- honorary officer, and that way 14 it's covered by the constitution and can be a secret 15 ballot? It was seconded by Strickland. Kempe has a 16 comment. 17 MS. KEMPE: Where would you like this to 18 appear? 19 MR. RUCKER: I would be comfortable with 20 adding it to page 16 where we talk about the director 21 emeritus. I think it should also be clear just an 22 honorary officer without voting privileges, just to be 23 sure that we understand. 24 MS. SAUM: Give me a sentence to put in 25 there, just a wording so we're all -- American Dairy Goat Association 242 1 MR. RUCKER: "The director emeritus shall be 2 an honorary officer of the association without voting 3 privileges." That would go on page 16 where it defines 4 them. 3(a), page 16. 5 MS. SAUM: Okay. So his motion is that on 6 page 16 under "Awards," the director emeritus, we add the 7 sentence that "Director emeriti shall be an honorary 8 officer of the association without voting privileges." Am 9 I right? 10 Okay. Any other comments on that before we 11 vote on it? All those in favor of the motion please say 12 "aye." 13 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 14 MS. SAUM: Anyone opposed? Daniel 15 Considine's opposed. Gustafson is a "no." Page, Weaver. 16 Any abstentions? (None.) Okay. The motion 17 passes. 18 Now can we have the tally? I think they're 19 done. 20 MS. GUSTAFSON: Point of order. 21 MS. SAUM: Gustafson. 22 MS. GUSTAFSON: How can we honor a vote that 23 was taken before the motion to add this without putting 24 the cart before the horse? 25 MS. SAUM: All right. Parliamentarians. American Dairy Goat Association 243 1 MR. RUCKER: We can revote. 2 MS. MAZE: I vote the same. 3 MS. SAUM: Is there anybody who really feels 4 we need to revote, or are we comfortable we voted by 5 secret ballot and we're within the constitution? Other 6 than Gustafson who is on record. 7 MS. GUSTAFSON: I'm in strong opposition to 8 accepting a vote that was taken prior to the passage of 9 this last motion. 10 MS. SAUM: Strickland is also in opposition 11 of accepting the vote. Anyone else? Okay. 12 MR. PFEILER: 8 yes, 18 no, 2 abstain, and 1 13 unconstitutional. 14 MS. SAUM: Okay. That failed. You want a 15 revote? 16 MR. RUCKER: The numbers again, please. 17 MS. SAUM: Oh, the numbers again. I'm 18 sorry. 19 MR. PFEILER: Eight yes. 20 MS. SAUM: 8 yes, 18 no, 2 abstained, 1 21 unconstitutional. There were 29 votes. Senn. 22 MS. SENN: They said 29? 23 MS. GUSTAFSON: I did not vote because that 24 was not a legal point. You can add me to the 25 unconstitutional vote to make your 30. American Dairy Goat Association 244 1 MS. SAUM: Okay. 2 MR. PAGE: I don't think you can count a 3 vote that wasn't counted. She didn't put the vote in. 4 How can you count it? 5 MS. SAUM: It's a vote not counted. 6 MR. PAGE: Vote not cast. 7 MS. GUSTAFSON: However you want to do it. 8 MS. SAUM: Okay. She's on record as saying 9 -- I don't think we can count it, but it is part of the 10 record that she said that. 11 Okay. Are we comfortable moving on to the 12 nomination of Harvey Considine for director emeriti? You 13 all have the information, and our Tally Committee will 14 hand out your ballots. 15 (Board members vote.) 16 MS. SAUM: Rucker. 17 MR. RUCKER: Just as a minor housekeeping, 18 we don't have an agenda on the door for members that might 19 be interested in the committee order that we're 20 proceeding. 21 MS. SAUM: Can we get an agenda posted to 22 the door? Yes, we can. There Shirley goes. 23 MR. RUCKER: Thank you. 24 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 25 MS. STRICKLAND: Could we also print the American Dairy Goat Association 245 1 order of the committees so that they would know what order 2 they were coming in, because all the agenda will show us 3 is the changes? 4 MS. SAUM: Yes. Shirley is doing that also. 5 MR. PFEILER: 21 yes, 8 no, total 29. 6 MS. SAUM: Just for the record, Daniel 7 Considine did not vote. That's where the 30 is. Okay. 8 So we have accepted Harvey as a director emeriti. He is 9 not here at the convention and is not intending to come, 10 is my understanding from Daniel. Is that right? So 11 hopefully Daniel can call him. 12 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. 13 MS. SAUM: If Stephen was here I would give 14 it to Stephen, but Daniel is here. 15 BOARD MEMBER: Tell him how you voted. 16 (Laughter.) 17 MR. ROBERT CASSETTE: I would just like to 18 make a closing remark. We will have awards that will be 19 done on Friday night, and I have been trying to figure out 20 why President Considine appointed me to chair this 21 committee, and I'm not sure that I have arrived at the 22 reason for it. However, if you were to ask me whether the 23 job has been done, I would have to tell you "no." 24 There are so many people, so many 25 individuals, who have, and still do, for years devoted American Dairy Goat Association 246 1 themselves to service to our organization, and I would 2 just take an example. We have a lady in the Spotlight 3 tent who has been a member participating in the 4 association for her lifetime. She certainly has earned 5 the right to take it easy; but, my God, I mean, she's out 6 there working her little butt off and, I mean, well, is 7 just doing a superb job; and she is an inspiration to me. 8 And I want to say we are a volunteer 9 organization. Volunteers are the heart of our 10 organization, and I just want to say that unfortunately a 11 lot of people will not be recognized for their service, 12 and that is most unfortunate, and I feel bad about it, but 13 I tried my best to do what I could, but I want to have it 14 on record that for all of our volunteers who are devoting 15 tireless efforts to this association that we say thank you 16 so much. 17 (Applause.) 18 MS. SAUM: Okay. Next on the list I think I 19 said was Judges Training and Pre-TC, and they're going to 20 be tomorrow afternoon, is what they requested. I don't 21 think they quite had their stuff finished from the TC 22 yesterday, and Stephen Considine has a presentation 23 tomorrow morning, so that will be tomorrow afternoon. 24 Next is Linear. 25 MR. BITTER: Okay. You got the report American Dairy Goat Association 247 1 earlier and then you got a supplement today. I refer you 2 to the supplement unless you have any questions on the 3 report. Questions on the report? 4 Okay. The request for -- 5 MS. DEAN: Can we have a moment, please? 6 MS. CAMPBELL: What was the question? 7 MR. BITTER: Just a moment. 8 You there? Okay. Request for board action: 9 One, recommend to change the application due dates from 10 prior to March 1 to March 1, and that's for the initial 11 period, and then second group of dates would be March 2nd 12 through March 31st. This is on page 55 of your guidebook. 13 Rationale is with annual dues due on March 1 with a 14 postmarked date, the "prior to" wording for appraisal has 15 not been member-friendly. Every year this situation 16 catches a few members, and because of one day and the 17 confusion with the annual dues date they end up paying the 18 second tier rate or decide not to apply, and a vote of all 19 of those voting in the committee is before you. 20 MS. SAUM: Any discussion on the motion 21 before you? All right. We'll go ahead and vote on that 22 then. 23 All those in favor of recommending to change 24 the application due dates from prior to March 1st, strike 25 the "prior to" that's in your guidebook and then to change American Dairy Goat Association 248 1 "March 1" to "March 2nd through March 31st." All those in 2 favor please say "aye." 3 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 4 MS. SAUM: Anyone opposed? (None.) 5 Abstentions? (None.) Motion passed. 6 MR. BITTER: Okay. No. 2 is a two-part 7 recommendation that's to allow a carry forward of an 8 application to the next year that appraisal is offered in 9 a member's area when ADGA cannot schedule a member in the 10 year of the application; and the second part is and 11 increase the initial period application fee from $25 to 12 $30. The vote was -- some rationale there, and the vote 13 was seven to one in committee, with eight voting. 14 Strickland. 15 MS. STRICKLAND: Just a clarification. This 16 would mean that everyone, whether they were appraised or 17 couldn't be accommodated, would still pay the $30? 18 MR. BITTER: Yes. 19 MS. STRICKLAND: Or only those that had to 20 be carried over? 21 MR. BITTER: Yes. There is an increase in 22 fee for everyone that applies in the initial period. I 23 think Cassette was next. 24 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: I request a division 25 of these two issues. I don't think that they are really American Dairy Goat Association 249 1 linked in any way. I know in my area of speaking to that 2 request is the fact that the members in my district have 3 said that "You have continually affected the fees related 4 to linear appraisal. Give us a break for a year or two." 5 When I heard about the registration increase 6 last year -- and that's okay. We haven't had one for a 7 long time, but you keep increasing those fees. You 8 increased the minimum stop rate. I really have no problem 9 with the carryover part of this, but I don't want to vote 10 against that because I'm not in favor of the increase. So 11 I request that these two items be taken separately. 12 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Second. 13 MS. SAUM: I have a second from Considine on 14 that. So we want to make those two separate motions. The 15 first motion that came out of the committee would be to 16 carry forward the application to the next year of that 17 appraisal in the members area when ADGA cannot schedule. 18 It's not when the member chooses to not -- to not accept 19 the session. It's only if ADGA is not able to do it. 20 Okay. And Phil is asking for that to be a two-part motion 21 and Daniel seconded it. Are we clear? Reyna. 22 MS. CAMPBELL: It's not debatable. 23 MS. SAUM: Oh, Linda Campbell is telling me 24 it's not a debatable question. We need to vote on it. On 25 your little beige card from Tuesday. American Dairy Goat Association 250 1 All those in favor of Phil's motion to take 2 this in two parts please say "aye." 3 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 4 MS. SAUM: Any opposition? None. Any 5 abstentions? No abstentions. The motion passed. So 6 we're going to take just the first part any discussion on 7 the first part? Reyna. 8 MS. REYNA: Clarification, please. I 9 hear -- I've heard from people in my district who claim 10 that because one herd cancelled and therefore they didn't 11 have a minimum stop and they could not be then appraised 12 that they lost their application fee. Is that true? 13 MR. BITTER: Try again. Ask the question 14 again. 15 MS. REYNA: Well, you're saying if we can't 16 schedule then we can carry the application fee forward, 17 but suppose that there is a minimum stop and for some 18 reason the biggest herd cancels. Then there's three or 19 four little herds that were going to make that minimum 20 stop. Do they lose their application fees or do you 21 consider that that they cancelled or do you consider it 22 beyond their control? 23 MR. BITTER: C, we try to find another host 24 area, herd, farm, ranch for them and keep them in the 25 schedule and get their goats appraised. That's how it's American Dairy Goat Association 251 1 handled. 2 MS. REYNA: But what about those -- I mean, 3 you know that we've had situations where people, the only 4 way they could appraise is to not take their whole herd 5 and to drive eight hours or six hours in order to get them 6 to a place where they could be appraised, and often it 7 isn't possible for them to take their whole herd to 8 somewhere to be appraised and then do they lose their 9 application fee? That's what I'm hearing. 10 MR. BITTER: Under the scenario that you 11 just said then that's their decision not to go there. On 12 the other hand, if we have this rule in place and we 13 figure that we couldn't schedule them, I mean, we tried to 14 be accommodating. That's why we have this in front of 15 you. 16 Okay. If we can't accommodate them then 17 they would be eligible for the carry forward, and we can't 18 possibly under -- even under this rule cover every 19 situation, and I think that we're going to try to be as 20 liberal as we can of saying, "Okay, we can't now schedule 21 you. You know, your application will be carried forward." 22 Okay. The idea is to make it more member-friendly, not to 23 create a hard situation. 24 MS. SAUM: Faircloth was next. 25 MR. FAIRCLOTH: Clarification. She said American Dairy Goat Association 252 1 that if they couldn't carry their whole herd. If they had 2 two breeds they could pick one breed, but they can't pick 3 and choose just a few animals to come nowhere to be 4 appraised. 5 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 6 MS. STRICKLAND: The -- this seems to me 7 that what is written here is pretty clear, but that there 8 are other incidences that I'm not feeling confident that 9 this addresses or that maybe you don't even want to 10 address. If you have a preliminary appraisal time frame 11 told to you and you send in your application fee and then 12 it turns out for some reason it's a month later and 13 there's no way you can appraise then, that's not your 14 fault. 15 MR. BITTER: That's exactly right, and 16 that's one reason why we wanted this change. 17 MS. STRICKLAND: That would cover those 18 types of changes such as Mark Baden mentioned at our 19 membership meeting. I think he was talking about that we 20 didn't know who was coming and when and we couldn't do it. 21 They would be included then? Not just if ADGA can't 22 schedule your area, period, you get your money carried 23 over. 24 MR. BITTER: It's a different situation. 25 This is very simple for what it is, okay, and it doesn't American Dairy Goat Association 253 1 cover everything. This is just one rule we're looking at 2 to make it more member-friendly. 3 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 4 MR. ALTHEIDE: Yeah, I agree with what Allen 5 said that it should be fairly simple. It says, "If ADGA 6 can't schedule in the area." My question is for 7 clarification, who decides whether or not -- is a member 8 given the opportunity to request that their application be 9 carried over, or does ADGA decide that it's carried over? 10 MR. BITTER: I believe the people in charge 11 of scheduling would know which ones were eligible for 12 carryover. 13 MS. SAUM: Berry. 14 MR. BITTER: Because they couldn't schedule 15 them. 16 MS. BERRY: We passed a rule, maybe it was 17 the last year I was chairman, that in this situation the 18 member could request that the committee consider the 19 reason that they had to cancel and that it was the 20 committee's decision as to whether or not that this -- 21 that their application should be carried forward or 22 returned because of their inability to have it done, so 23 that was a committee decision. This was passed by the 24 board, so I believe the last year that I was chairman. 25 MS. SAUM: Strickland. American Dairy Goat Association 254 1 MS. STRICKLAND: As a point of information, 2 in the past through the office what has happened when an 3 area, say like Alaska, says, "We would like to be 4 appraised," and they send in their money and then ADGA 5 says, "Oh, gee, we're sorry we can't send an appraiser to 6 Alaska"? What has happened to their moneys? They've lost 7 them? Officewise what's been the procedure? 8 MS. SAUM: Shirley, do you want to address 9 that? 10 MS. McKENZIE: No, Lelia. 11 MS. SAUM: How about Berry? 12 MS. BERRY: How about me? No. When -- if 13 an area would apply and we were unable to accommodate 14 them, their money would be returned. The other situation 15 where a member had to cancel for -- because they had a 16 heart attack or whatever, they had a legitimate reason for 17 canceling, it would -- they had to request the committee 18 to decide whether or not they could get their money back. 19 So the customer, if they did nothing, 20 might -- their money might be kept, but if they requested 21 of the committee to return it to them because it was a 22 special situation, the committee decided whether or not 23 that was valid. 24 MS. STRICKLAND: Is it safe to say that this 25 motion is asking we put into action what we do anyway? American Dairy Goat Association 255 1 MS. BERRY: This is a different one. 2 MR. BITTER: No, I'm sorry. We're muddling 3 the situation. The money that Lelia just referred to that 4 they can return if they have a medical emergency or 5 something, that's animal fees. That doesn't include the 6 application fee. This just refers to application fee. 7 Okay. We can't schedule them. The animal fee ares 8 already taken care of in other rules. Okay. 9 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 10 MR. ALTHEIDE: Well, just to try to make 11 what I was trying to get at a little clearer, if ADGA 12 cannot schedule Iowa, will those herds in Iowa that had 13 applied for linear appraisal in 2005 and were not 14 appraised because of ADGA being unable to schedule have 15 the option to request that their money be refunded or will 16 they automatically be carried over until the next year? 17 MR. BITTER: There's no money refunded here. 18 It's that their application would be carried through to 19 the next year. 20 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 21 MS. STRICKLAND: Did I just not hear Lelia 22 say that if ADGA could not schedule an area, those 23 people's money was returned? 24 MS. BERRY: Yes. 25 MS. SAUM: Berry. American Dairy Goat Association 256 1 MS. BERRY: I believe -- I'm sure that that 2 was what we passed. I -- just checking with Shirley, 3 apparently this did not make it from us passing that 4 action to it being added to the rules in the office during 5 a period of time when sometimes things weren't happening 6 that we passed getting actually put into action. 7 I know we passed that. I think it was the 8 last year that I was chairman, which would be five years 9 ago; and that was the action, that if we were unable to 10 accommodate them they would get their application fee 11 back; and if we were unable to -- if they had an 12 emergency, the committee would decide whether or not it 13 was a valid action or whether it was a valid cancellation 14 and could decide whether to return the money. 15 MS. SAUM: Okay. Before you we have the 16 carry forward of the application moneys now if ADGA cannot 17 schedule you. So I think we need to either amend this to 18 something we would prefer or go ahead and vote on this; 19 and if you don't like it, vote it down. Strickland. 20 MS. STRICKLAND: So this would be replacing 21 what Lelia thinks we already have in existence that says 22 the money is returned if you can't be scheduled in an 23 area, if the area can't be scheduled. 24 MR. BITTER: I'm sorry. The guidebook is 25 very clear. If that was passed, we need to dig it out and American Dairy Goat Association 257 1 change the guidebook. The guidebook is very clear that 2 the application fees are nonrefundable. That's what we've 3 been going by. 4 MS. SAUM: Berry, have you found it? Or 5 Campbell? Berry. Campbell. 6 MS. BERRY: You read it. 7 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 8 MS. CAMPBELL: In the minutes from 1989, 9 according to the board action report from the Linear 10 Appraisal Committee, we approved addition to page 59, 11 section (d), No. (7), "The ADGA performance programs 12 manager will forward the request to the Linear Appraisal 13 Committee. The committee by a majority vote will 14 determine if there were extenuating circumstances and if a 15 refund on animal fees should be given." 16 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Animal fees. 17 MS. BERRY: That's different. 18 MS. CAMPBELL: That's all I see is 19 specifically animal fees. 20 MS. SAUM: Okay. That's different I think. 21 Reyna is next. 22 MS. REYNA: I have -- I have a problem. Why 23 do we simply keep their money and hold it until the next 24 year rather than returning it? That's kind of like the 25 tax man holding onto my money and making interest on it American Dairy Goat Association 258 1 rather than giving it back to me. If you're going to hold 2 it for a year, pay them interest; otherwise, let them have 3 their money back. 4 MS. SAUM: Does anybody want to speak in 5 favor of what's proposed here, carry forward the 6 application to the next year if the appraisal -- when ADGA 7 cannot schedule? Does anybody want to speak in favor of 8 that motion? 9 Okay. Let's go ahead and vote on it then. 10 All those in favor please say "aye." 11 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 12 MS. SAUM: Can we have a raising of the 13 aye's? 14 MR. BITTER: Raising of the hands? 15 MS. SAUM: The aye's hands. Bitter, Bozzo, 16 Campbell, Korhonen, Senn, Dean, Rowe, Hendrickson, 17 Cassette, Daniel Considine, Saum. 18 The no's? Abstentions? Gustafson. 19 The motion failed, I'm sure. How many were 20 there on the "yes"? Did you count them, Shirley? 21 MS. McKENZIE: No. Sorry. 22 MS. SAUM: Can you read them to us? Did you 23 see the look on her face, "Oh, my God." You want to do 24 the yeses again real quick? 25 BOARD MEMBERS: Yes. American Dairy Goat Association 259 1 MS. SAUM: Bitter, Bozzo, Campbell, Korhonen 2 was a "yes." Senn, Dean, Rowe, Sankey, Hendrickson, 3 Cassette, Considine, Saum. How many yeses were there? 4 MS. McKENZIE: 12. 5 MS. SAUM: 12 yeses. And there was one 6 abstention, which is Gustafson, so it failed. 7 Okay. Do you want to move to the second 8 part of this motion then? Are we ready for that, which is 9 an increase in application fee from $25 to $30 is what 10 we're looking at. Is there any discussion on that? None? 11 Okay. We'll vote on the increase in 12 application fee from $25 to $30. All those in favor 13 please say "aye." (None) 14 All opposed, "no." 15 BOARD MEMBERS: No. 16 MS. SAUM: Any abstentions? Okay. Motion 17 failed. 18 MR. BITTER: Three, "Recommend that the 19 office policy be that a host herd will be charged the 20 minimum stock fee when the currently owned list is 21 returned with adjustments to be made after the appraisal 22 session based upon animals appraised." And the problem 23 here is apparently it's been done two or more ways in the 24 office, and we wanted that to be consistent, so that it 25 was fair to all the membership. That was eight out of American Dairy Goat Association 260 1 eight voting in favor. 2 MS. SAUM: Is there any discussion on this? 3 Daubert. 4 MR. DAUBERT: I'm concerned if it's an 5 office policy not in the guidebook that it's not general 6 knowledge. Would you be willing to add that as a section 7 on page 59, just to make that very simple sentence? 8 MR. BITTER: Yeah, you have to ask the 9 entire group if there's any objections, Robin, because 10 that's not part of our motion. 11 MS. SAUM: Can you do that as the chair? 12 MR. BITTER: Well, that would be done by 13 you, the directors. 14 MS. SAUM: Okay. Allen doesn't really want 15 to accept that as the chair, so we need that as a motion. 16 MR. DAUBERT: I so move. 17 MS. SAUM: Is there a second to Dave's 18 motion? Rucker. Is there any discussion on the amendment 19 to the motion to place this wording in the guidebook on 20 page 59, where at, Dave? 21 MR. DAUBERT: Section 33. 22 MS. SAUM: No. 33 on page 59. Nixon. 23 MS. NIXON: I object to that because that is 24 listed as "Guidelines to the Appraiser," and that's an 25 inappropriate position for that. We need to find another American Dairy Goat Association 261 1 spot. 2 MS. SAUM: Weaver. 3 MS. WEAVER: I don't see any reason to put 4 it in the guidebook. If you want to put something on 5 there you might put something on the application form, but 6 I don't see any reason to put it in the guidebook. 7 MS. SAUM: Daubert. 8 MR. DAUBERT: I'd like to withdraw my motion 9 and add it to section (d) on page 55, running over to page 10 56 as No. 9. 11 MS. SAUM: Is that acceptable to you, Tom? 12 MR. RUCKER: That's fine. 13 MS. SAUM: Okay. Any discussion on the 14 amendment to the motion to place this in the guidebook 15 page 55, that's actually carried over to 56? It would be 16 No. 9. Cassette. 17 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Well, I have two 18 questions. I guess, exactly what words are we placing in 19 there? I mean, tell me under this, are we saying 20 recommend that as an office policy? That doesn't sound 21 like what we're talking about, so where does it start, 22 where does it end, what exact words are we putting in 23 there? 24 And then tell me, I guess, I may be just a 25 little thick at getting through this, but what does this American Dairy Goat Association 262 1 really mean? If you have a host herd and there's three 2 herds going to this one stop, all equal in number, is the 3 host herd going to be charged the hundred and whatever the 4 minimum stop is, 200, and then receive a credit after? Is 5 that -- I guess I'm a little confused. Could you clarify 6 that, Allen? 7 MR. BITTER: That's exactly it. The host 8 herd is responsible for the minimum stop. If all the 9 transport herds decided to cancel, they would still owe 10 the $200 and the adjustments can be made right after with 11 a credit to their account, a check back, or they may have 12 used the $200 for appraising goats. 13 MR. PAGE: I was a host herd this year. The 14 other party did not come. I was charged a minimum stock 15 fee with no adjustment. 16 MS. SAUM: Let's talk just to the amendment 17 to the motion and get through that to actually place this 18 wording in the guidebook. What wording, Daubert? 19 MR. DAUBERT: From the Linear Appraisal 20 year-end report supplement, section 3, starting with the 21 word, "A host herd will be charged the minimum stock fee 22 when the currently owned list is returned with adjustments 23 to be made after the appraisal session based upon animals 24 appraised" to go onto page 56, No. 9. 25 MS. SAUM: Okay. Are we ready to vote on American Dairy Goat Association 263 1 this? All you're voting on is where you would place that 2 statement in the guidebook if we indeed accept it. We're 3 not accepting that statement. We're just saying where 4 that statement would be placed. Okay. Everybody in favor 5 of placing that statement on page 56, No. 9, in the 6 guidebook please say "aye." 7 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 8 MS. SAUM: No's? Abstentions? Are you a 9 "no," Strickland? Strickland is a "no." 10 Abstentions? Reyna. Okay. So we passed 11 that. Now we're back to the main motion. Considine. 12 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: I speak against this 13 motion. First of all, I think the wording is confusing, 14 but beyond that, if I understand what is attempted here, I 15 disagree with the principle. If you have a host herd 16 that's agreed to be a host herd, which means there are a 17 lot of other animals coming on the property and help the 18 program and because some of the other people didn't come 19 in it costs more for their goats than it should have, and 20 I think that's wrong. I don't think we should be charging 21 them a minimum stock charge when other people dropped out. 22 MS. SAUM: Cassette. 23 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Allen, I heard your 24 response to my question about, you know, they would be 25 credited after. Has -- when you say it right -- and I American Dairy Goat Association 264 1 think the term you used was "right after." I don't see 2 how that could be done until the appraiser turns in the 3 paper work for appraisal session, and in this past year 4 has all paper work always been turned in within what I 5 have determined a reasonable period of time, within a week 6 or 10 days of completion of that? So if it hasn't and we 7 have to wait and that's a period of time before it's 8 turned in then that herd owner is going to wait a very 9 long time for a credit to be given. 10 MS. SAUM: Snyder, Helen Snyder. 11 MS. SNYDER: I was also going to speak in 12 opposition. I think you're penalizing the host herd. 13 Where is your incentive to be a host herd? 14 MS. SAUM: Hendrickson. 15 MS. HENDRICKSON: I also speak against the 16 idea because I'm afraid it may keep people from signing up 17 as a host herd at all if they're afraid they're going to 18 be -- I mean, they have to come up with the money upfront, 19 and maybe they can't afford that 200, whatever, way ahead 20 of time. They're banking on those other people coming in 21 to make it less expensive for them. 22 MS. SAUM: Rucker. 23 MR. RUCKER: Yeah, I understand the speaking 24 in opposition, but just I guess a question. If I serve as 25 a host herd -- and actually, this happened to me because I American Dairy Goat Association 265 1 was surprised when I was billed 200 because I was 2 appraising eight animals but had additional herds coming, 3 so when I got my credit card statement and saw $200, it's 4 like "Whoa, what happened" and that's basically what 5 happened. 6 But, okay, so I choose to appraise my 7 animals and serve as a host herd. Every other herd drops 8 out. It's my understanding I still have to pay the $200 9 because it's a minimum stop fee. I made the choice and I 10 really don't -- I mean, the opposition I'm hearing, I 11 think you're wanting to change another policy than what 12 this motion really speaks to, because you have to have a 13 minimum stop fee, so it's whether you pay it before or you 14 pay it after. 15 MS. SAUM: Campbell was next, I believe. 16 MS. CAMPBELL: My concern is the statement 17 that says it's being interpreted in different ways, so if 18 this isn't adopted, do we have some alternative something 19 that's adopted so that it's very specific that we're 20 consistent. That's my concern. 21 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 22 MR. ALTHEIDE: Well, listening to what Jamie 23 and Tom both said, it seems like currently if they come 24 short of numbers through the minimum stop, the host herd 25 is being billed; and it's often occurring without warning American Dairy Goat Association 266 1 to them, so it comes as a surprise; and this would 2 actually clarify what our policy is that they will be 3 billed and be responsible. So it's actually in a way 4 member-friendly by informing people upfront what will 5 happen if the transfer -- transport herds don't show up. 6 MS. SAUM: Rowe. 7 DR. ROWE: As a member who voted in 8 committee, it was our understanding that there had been 9 several different methods by which the billing had been 10 done, and the intent of the motion was to clarify and make 11 consistent an office policy. 12 MS. SAUM: Reyna. 13 MS. REYNA: Well, excuse me, it's my 14 personal opinion that this is the most important program 15 that we have, and I have spent so much of my time trying 16 to get people to appraise. I think it is so important, 17 and anything that would discourage people from doing so I 18 just don't want to see that happen, and I fear there are 19 people who simply cannot afford that upfront fee, and I 20 was -- was it Phil that spoke to this, I wait a long time 21 for my scores to get to the office and I actually get my 22 printout, and that seems to me that's about the length of 23 time it would take for somebody to get their refund, and I 24 just think that's unfair to membership. 25 MS. SAUM: Petersen. American Dairy Goat Association 267 1 MS. PETERSEN: While I'd like you to know 2 that I don't actually agree with charging the host herd 3 200 bucks if everybody else leaves, this needs to be put 4 in print where people know what is actually the office 5 policy at this time. That should be in print somewhere, 6 anywhere. Even the minutes would be good. Then we could 7 point it out. 8 MS. CAMPBELL: I think that was my point. 9 MR. RUCKER: Whatever the policy is we need 10 it written down. 11 MS. NIXON: I spoke to this at the committee 12 meeting last night, and I really think this is a change in 13 policy. I think we have two different definitions. You 14 have a minimum stop that you pay X number of dollars. You 15 are guaranteed that an appraiser comes to your house and 16 does your goats. If you are a host herd, you have told 17 ADGA that ADGA can send other animals to your home and you 18 will pay for your application fee and you will pay for 19 your animals. Any additional animals are paid for with an 20 application fee and animal fees, and that's how it used to 21 be done. 22 We've had a lot of transition in personnel 23 in the office, and I think with -- I think we're handling 24 it differently now, and I think maybe if we clarify the 25 definition of what a host herd was and what a minimum stop American Dairy Goat Association 268 1 was that we would not be hitting folks with a heavy hammer 2 and hitting people with a 200-dollar fee that really 3 shouldn't be having that fee. 4 MS. SAUM: Daubert. 5 MR. DAUBERT: I move to refer this to 6 committee for further study. 7 MS. SAUM: Is there a second to Daubert's 8 motion? No? Motion dies for lack of a second. Okay. 9 We're back to the discussion. Petersen. 10 MS. PETERSEN: I still would like to know 11 what the office policy is. 12 MR. BITTER: Overall what Penny has been 13 doing is billing the host herd $200, and we had at least 14 one party come back to us this year and say, "I don't want 15 to pay the $200 because I've got transport herds coming in 16 and I only want to pay this much." So then she's doing 17 one thing for one party and a different thing for others. 18 That's where the problem comes in, so then for performance 19 programs clerk, what's she supposed to do to know how to 20 charge different members for linear appraisal minimum 21 stops? That's where the confusion comes in. 22 MS. SAUM: Petersen. 23 MS. PETERSEN: Okay. So if it's already 24 office policy, why are we recommending that it's office 25 policy? American Dairy Goat Association 269 1 MS. SAUM: I think Allen is just saying it's 2 been done both ways and the office would like direction on 3 exactly how we want it done. Mostly it's been done this 4 way, but there's been a few exceptions, and they're asking 5 for us as a board to make it clear for everybody. 6 Hendrickson was next, I believe. 7 MS. HENDRICKSON: I would really like to see 8 it set out in a way that on the application that it is 9 stated that as a host herd you're guaranteeing we're going 10 to have $200 worth of goats here, and if your transport 11 people don't show up you are liable for that 200-dollar 12 minimum stop fee. I think that -- that then the host herd 13 pays their fee, their animal fees for what they have, 14 their 10 or 12, but if the other people don't show up 15 they're going to get billed for the remainder. They would 16 understand that was going to happen if the other people 17 backed out, but I think that's really -- because a lot of 18 people are not going to want to put up the $200 as a host 19 herd upfront, but they are going to make sure the other 20 people are going to show up because they're going to be 21 liable for it later. 22 MR. BITTER: That's not true. You say a lot 23 of people. That's what a lot of people are doing. The 24 exception has been some people that have had different 25 treatment in the past and have requested different American Dairy Goat Association 270 1 treatment this past year. 2 MS. SAUM: Faircloth, and then Helen Snyder. 3 MR. FAIRCLOTH: I think we're getting two 4 things confused here. There's a minimum stop and then 5 there's a host herd. If I require a minimum stop at my 6 place, I require the $200. If there's additional animals 7 there I will pay that amount beyond what goes over the 8 $200, but when you do a host herd you've agreed to 9 assemble some folks, and it's wrong to penalize the host 10 herd with the $200 because Bob and Sue don't deliver. 11 Now, that's what we're doing here, and you're going to 12 stop a lot of people from being host herd because of this 13 issue. 14 MS. SAUM: Helen Snyder. 15 MS. HELEN SNYDER: I have been a host herd 16 for many years, and I have never been charged the minimum 17 stop fee before until this year. This is the first year. 18 MS. SAUM: Petersen. 19 MS. PETERSEN: I'm agreeing with him. What 20 I'm saying, is this a real rule, or is it just what the 21 office is doing now? And, I mean, if we pass it that 22 means we're making it into an official rule, whether -- 23 and I don't think it should be an official rule, but if 24 we're going to be doing it, we need to tell people. 25 MS. SAUM: Go ahead. Campbell. American Dairy Goat Association 271 1 MS. CAMPBELL: I think, you know, we need to 2 remember that we don't just endorse office policy. We 3 make office policy, so if our concern is that this be 4 clearly identified and we indeed have two different 5 situations then that's what we need to be doing in this 6 case. I appreciate that the committee is bringing this to 7 us because we don't want inconsistency out there, but it 8 comes down to the interpretation and what we do want 9 office policy to be. 10 Are we comfortable to make a motion or to 11 vote on this? If not, we could postpone decision on this 12 and, you know, come back to it tomorrow if there's concern 13 about that. My concern is if we just kill it then we've 14 not done anything. We've not clarified what we've done, 15 but I'm hearing -- I'm personally hearing that division, 16 but I'm concerned that would not be the appropriate action 17 to take. 18 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 19 MS. STRICKLAND: I move we postpone action 20 on this particular item until the Linear Appraisal 21 Committee can come back to us with a distinction between 22 host herd and minimum stop. 23 MS. SAUM: Is there a second? Burks is a 24 second for that. Any discussion on the motion to table 25 this back to the Linear Appraisal Committee? American Dairy Goat Association 272 1 MS. CAMPBELL: Postpone. 2 MS. SAUM: Postpone. I'm sorry, Campbell. 3 All right. All those in favor of postponing this and 4 sending it back to Linear please say "aye." 5 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 6 MS. SAUM: Anyone opposed? 7 BOARD MEMBERS: No. 8 MS. SAUM: Can the no's raise their hands? 9 Daubert, Pete Snyder, Weaver, Faircloth, Maze, Proctor. 10 Any abstentions? (None.) Okay. This will 11 be postponed for clarification of host herd and minimum 12 stop for tomorrow. 13 MR. BITTER: Four, change to the application 14 that young stock numbers must be indicated on the 15 application by the member to be included on the schedule 16 and appraised. The problem we've had is they haven't 17 indicated anything or "zero" on the application, and 18 sometimes when they return their currently owned list with 19 a slip it has a similar request on it. They, again, use 20 the young stock line blank. Appraiser arrives at the 21 farm, and they have 25 kids that they expect the appraiser 22 is going to appraise. We schedule pretty tight. There 23 just isn't time. We just want to put this language on the 24 application so that they understand that we need to know 25 what they intend to do with their young stock. American Dairy Goat Association 273 1 The older animals are pretty simple to 2 figure out from what they indicate in their currently 3 owned list. We're used to dealing with that. Usually the 4 large numbers of swings are when someone expects that we 5 can stay there until midnight appraising young stock. 6 MS. SAUM: Considine. 7 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: This makes sense to 8 me that you would want that. I just would like an answer. 9 I assume that you would be not expecting exact numbers, 10 just that you don't want to be surprised if someone is 11 doing young stock and didn't know at all. You wouldn't 12 tell your appraiser not to do 30 if the person inserted 25 13 in the bar; is that right? 14 MR. BITTER: That's right. If you read the 15 rationale, the appraiser is going to do what they have 16 time for while they're there. You know, we're going to 17 appraise what we have time for, but if we get there and 18 they have time to do 5 of the 30 then they will do five of 19 the owner's choice of the young stock. 20 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: If they haven't 21 indicated 30 already, right? 22 MR. BITTER: Yes, if they have already 23 indicated 30 then we've got time in the schedule to take 24 care of that. That's the point. 25 MS. SAUM: Korhonen. American Dairy Goat Association 274 1 MR. KORHONEN: The heart of my culling 2 program, who I keep each year based upon the linear 3 appraisals for my new young stock, in March I don't know 4 what young stock I'm going to have, can't get all the 5 numbers until I get the kids before me. So do you want me 6 to over guess or under guess? In any case if I'm going to 7 pay the 200-dollar fee, I want him to do or her to do what 8 I've got there for them. I don't think "must" is the 9 right word. 10 MR. BITTER: Like how many animals do you -- 11 how many young stock do you usually raise a year, this 12 year? 13 MR. KORHONEN: I think Richter did 17 or 18 14 for me. 15 MR. BITTER: And last year? 16 MR. KORHONEN: Almost the same. Oh, now 17 there's -- 18 MR. BITTER: Put down 20 and everybody is 19 happy. 20 MR. KORHONEN: Oh, okay. You want me to 21 over guess then. 22 MR. BITTER: No, put down 18 then. I'm not 23 saying over guess. I'm saying put down a logical number 24 of young stock that you normally would appraise. 25 MR. KORHONEN: But you say I "must" put down American Dairy Goat Association 275 1 there. 2 MR. BITTER: Because otherwise basically we 3 have to say, "Sorry, Mike, we don't have time to do your 4 young stock because you didn't indicate that you wanted 18 5 kids done. We've got to go over to Cam's in South 6 Carolina, and we've got to hurry." 7 MR. KORHONEN: Okay. Conversely, when he 8 was taking off then to go from my place to Tacoma, if I 9 guess 20, he says "Well, I will spend the night here 10 before I go on," but I really only had nine this year and 11 he had scheduled for 20. See, that's the problem. Unless 12 you really know, you can't schedule or you have to have 13 the flexibility. 14 MR. BITTER: Well, there's some flexibility 15 within it, Mike. The problem is when -- really when we 16 get someone that wants to do 20, 25, 30 young stock and 17 they have never told us on any of their initial indication 18 that they were going to do any young stock. 19 MR. KORHONEN: I'm not opposed to indicating 20 that there will be young stock. When you say I "must" 21 list how many I've got, which is what you're indication 22 is. 23 MR. BITTER: No. No. Just -- 24 MR. KORHONEN: It says, "Young stock numbers 25 must be indicated on the application," and I don't know American Dairy Goat Association 276 1 how many I have in March. 2 MR. BITTER: Right. 3 MR. KORHONEN: For my August or September 4 tally. 5 MR. BITTER: Yeah. Yeah. But, Mike, you're 6 not even sure how many milkers you're going to have when 7 we get there either, but you have a ballpark figure, and 8 that's how we schedule you, because you think you're going 9 to have a dozen milkers or whatever. That's just an 10 example from me, okay. So that's all we're looking for is 11 the ballpark indication. 12 MS. SAUM: Rowe. 13 DR. ROWE: Just by way of clarification and 14 in support of Allen's statement, you indicate upon your 15 application; you indicate a much more firm number when 16 your currently owned list comes out; and I would believe, 17 am I correct, that the currently owned list closer to the 18 time of application would be what we would be scheduled on 19 based on numbers? 20 MR. BITTER: By the time that many of the 21 currently owned lists are returned the schedule is already 22 made up. That's why we want this on the application. 23 MS. SAUM: Callahan and then Hendrickson. 24 MS. CALLAHAN: I think a reasonable guess is 25 what we're after. When I was appraising I was sometimes American Dairy Goat Association 277 1 faced with someone who had not indicated any young stock, 2 and they wanted to do 25 or 30 of them, and that is what 3 we are trying to prohibit because that just really screws 4 you up as an appraiser. And that's what -- a reasonable 5 guess. You don't have to come up with an exact number. 6 MS. SAUM: Hendrickson was next. 7 MS. HENDRICKSON: I think you could fix that 8 by just saying "approximate numbers of young stock must 9 be..." That would give you an indication they plan to do 10 young stock. They don't just show up with an extra 15 11 when you get there. 12 MR. BITTER: How about we add two words to 13 this, right between "that" and "young" we add "an 14 estimate"? 15 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Good. 16 MR. BITTER: Does that work for you? 17 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Yes. Second, if you 18 need one. 19 MR. BITTER: So we're agreed that an 20 estimate -- well, need to add "that an estimate of young 21 stock numbers must be indicated on the application," et 22 cetera. Does that get you there? 23 MS. SAUM: Daubert. 24 MR. DAUBERT: I'm not sure how I did this 25 last time, but I think it has to be an amendment to add it American Dairy Goat Association 278 1 to the guidebook under section -- page 55, (c), 2 "application for linear appraisal." 3 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: It's on the 4 application. 5 MR. DAUBERT: Even if it's on the 6 application, I'm more comfortable if it would be in the 7 guidebook that this is our bible on the application. No. 8 4 under (c) on page 55, that exact wording, "an estimate". 9 MS. SAUM: Is there a second to Daubert's 10 motion? Gustafson. 11 Okay. We can discuss Dave's motion then. 12 He wants to add this wording into the guidebook page 55, 13 (c). It would be No. 4. Strickland. 14 MS. STRICKLAND: Do we have in here where it 15 says you have to give the number of milkers or bucks? I 16 don't see the need for this. It's on the application 17 where you fill it out and send in your money. I just 18 speak in opposition to that. 19 MS. SAUM: So Strickland is speaking in 20 opposition of putting that in the guidebook. Anybody 21 speaking in the affirmative on that? 22 Okay. Let's go to a vote then on that, the 23 motion to put this wording in the guidebook. All those in 24 favor say "aye." 25 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. American Dairy Goat Association 279 1 MS. SAUM: Daubert and Gustafson. All those 2 opposed? 3 BOARD MEMBERS: No. 4 MS. SAUM: Any abstentions? Okay. The 5 motion failed. 6 We're back to the wording. Are we ready to 7 vote on this? 8 BOARD MEMBERS: Yes. 9 MS. SAUM: I heard the question. All right. 10 So what you're voting on is the change on application for 11 linear appraisal and it will state "An estimate of young 12 stock numbers must be indicated on the application by the 13 member to be included on the schedule and appraised." Are 14 we all set on that? 15 Okay. Everybody in favor of that please say 16 "aye." 17 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 18 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no"? (None.) 19 Abstentions? (None.) Okay. The motion passed. Next? 20 MR. BITTER: Okay. No. 5, something similar 21 is also in the production testing committee report, and 22 this is because we have been approached a couple of times 23 in the last two years of nonmembers wanting performance 24 programs, to participate in performance programs without 25 joining the association; and whereas the guidebook American Dairy Goat Association 280 1 strongly implies it by a lot of its wording, it was not 2 clearly stated, so we're looking at adding a preamble 3 right underneath X, "Linear Appraisal," that will state 4 "Performance programs, including linear appraisal, are a 5 privilege of membership and are available as a member 6 option. Current ADGA membership, in good standing, must 7 be obtained to apply and participate." 8 MR. DAUBERT: Page 53. 9 MS. SAUM: Is there any discussion on this? 10 Strickland. 11 MS. STRICKLAND: And the other part goes 12 with it, right, "Only exceptions are special contracts 13 approved by the board of directors. For example" -- this 14 is all one motion coming to us from your committee? 15 MS. SAUM: Yes. It is one motion. Yes. 16 Thank you for pointing that at out. 17 MR. BITTER: Yes. Yes. I'm sorry. And at 18 last night's meeting we voted to add "The only exceptions 19 are special contracts approved by the board of directors," 20 parenthesis, "for example, foreign countries or commercial 21 herds," parenthesis. 22 MS. SAUM: Any discussion on the motion 23 before you? Campbell. 24 MS. CAMPBELL: I was just curious, was there 25 any consideration given to a nonmember rate much as we American Dairy Goat Association 281 1 have nonmember rates for registration? 2 MR. BITTER: No. Next question. 3 MS. SAUM: The question has been called. 4 All those in favor of adding this wording to the preamble 5 of linear on page 53 please say "aye." 6 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 7 MS. SAUM: No's? (None.) Abstentions? 8 (None.) Motion passed. 9 MR. BITTER: Okay. This six has already 10 been somewhat unbelievably controversial when all we're 11 trying to do is keep Bryan from having to work on the 12 performance program thing while he's trying to get the 13 other work done, but it is before you. The vote in 14 committee was five in favor, three opposed; and since it 15 was presented to committee, Lisa Shepard has indicated to 16 me that she's been working with the database and ARMS and 17 whatever and may be able to just do this herself without 18 in any way infringing on what Bryan is doing, so this 19 whole thing might be moot within seconds. 20 MS. SAUM: Rowe. 21 DR. ROWE: As a follow-up to that, we did 22 have a joint meeting with the Sire Development Committee, 23 members of -- some members who were available of Linear 24 Appraisal and those here from Production Testing. We had 25 extensive discussion of the Performance Volumes and viewed American Dairy Goat Association 282 1 it as a valuable source of archive of individual animal 2 identification. Lisa might be able to just give us a 3 brief update of the reports that can be run and then 4 perhaps some of the difficulties in that there has to be 5 sort of a short fix on things like PTA's and so on, but by 6 way of reminding the board that the only source of, for 7 example, the reporting of one-day tests, the only source 8 of the complete individual animal DHIR and linear record 9 data and as well the source of publishing our -- what 10 would be coming in our owner sampler star volume records 11 would be the Performance Volumes as we know them. 12 We did also discuss other forms of making 13 data available by CD or enhancements to the things that 14 have already been added to the website that are looking 15 very favorably, but there is a very strong sense that the 16 Performance Volumes in form something similar to they 17 exist were valuable for the membership. Lisa, perhaps 18 could you comment about it? 19 MS. SHEPARD: On my last trip to the office 20 I started to look to see what it would take in order to 21 reproduce or even to start on Volume 50, because that's 22 where we were, and after doing some digging the 23 Performance Volume is divided up into a number of 24 sections. Most of the sections are easy enough to work 25 with. The difficult section is the -- you know, this is American Dairy Goat Association 283 1 the heart of the Performance Volumes where we list all of 2 our bucks and daughters and appraisal scores and PTA's. 3 That has been a little bit more problematic, and I'm not 4 quite sure at this time how much it would take in terms of 5 saying a percentage, you know, a hundred percent, it would 6 take 8 percent of my time and 20 percent from our 7 programmer. I'm not quite sure. 8 We had thought that maybe we had a little 9 bit better -- and I just spoke to Shirley and we're not 10 sure. I need to look at that section a little bit more. 11 We do know we can recreate it. It's kind of a -- tough to 12 create it. It's just kind of a project that we had put 13 down a little bit on the priority list and we need to get 14 back to, but we're looking for a little bit of direction 15 in terms of, you know, can we use some of that programmer 16 time if it's necessary in order to probably do -- I would 17 say certainly no more than 50 percent and probably more 18 into the, you know, 20 to 30 percent where we're going to 19 need a little bit of help from the programmer. 20 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 21 MS. STRICKLAND: With the year-end reports 22 being on the website, this is the one item that I have 23 received input on from membership that seems like in 24 Little Rock or somewhere we got rid of these, and it was 25 really bad, but I can see the problem logistically. I American Dairy Goat Association 284 1 would be much more comfortable instead of having the 2 verbiage "indefinite suspension" to some time or tied to 3 some event like when the system is operating, or I don't 4 know, something that -- the "indefinite suspension" just 5 bothers me really. 6 MS. SAUM: Rowe. 7 DR. ROWE: Well, that is why I would speak 8 against this motion, because I'm not sure that action is 9 needed to indefinitely suspend. You know, progress is 10 being made as it can be made. No direction is being given 11 to make it a high priority, so I simply speak in 12 opposition to the motion. 13 MS. SAUM: Anyone want to speak in favor of 14 the motion? 15 Okay. So we're ready to vote on item No. 6. 16 Recommend indefinite suspension of preparation and 17 printing of Performance Volumes until the new 2004 18 programming is complete. All those in favor of this, 19 which would mean we would suspend them, please say "aye." 20 (None.) 21 Opposed, "no"? 22 BOARD MEMBERS: No. 23 MS. SAUM: Any abstentions? Okay. The 24 motion failed. So we are onto No. 7. 25 MR. BITTER: This is to approve a concept American Dairy Goat Association 285 1 and a -- but a major change of a concept that the training 2 sessions be changed from stand-alone events, basically not 3 held anymore in that way that they have been, and that 4 they were for candidates only, to switch them to a two-day 5 educational program offered to all convention attendees or 6 even anybody that wants to come in early, but I would 7 think they would have to be tied to the convention at the 8 beginning of the convention week, and the details to be 9 worked out with the Annual Meeting people and the 10 subcommittee of the Linear Appraisal Committee. 11 MS. SAUM: Basically what the committee is 12 asking is, I think, to approve this in concept of not 13 doing the training sessions but actually trying to move 14 that to part of the convention where more people would 15 have opportunity to learn and maybe get more potential 16 people that might be willing to appraise. Campbell. 17 MS. CAMPBELL: I speak in favor of anything 18 that gives us the opportunity for members to learn more 19 about the program, which could potentially increase 20 participation in programming. I have been asking for 21 something like this for a while, so I appreciate the 22 information. 23 MS. SAUM: Berry. 24 MS. BERRY: Are you specifically asking for 25 training where the requirement would be that the people American Dairy Goat Association 286 1 attending met the criteria to be appraisers or if you are 2 -- because there is a difference between an informational 3 presentation and demonstration, which we have done off and 4 on for years, and a training session where you're looking 5 for new appraisers. 6 MR. BITTER: A hybrid, Lelia, if you will. 7 Get them working, give them some of the overview of how 8 the program works initially in a classroom type setting 9 and then move into letting them appraise goats, learn by 10 doing type of thing, and then from that hopefully we would 11 help a lot of ADGA members promote the program and 12 potentially identify some appraisers to bring in. 13 MS. BERRY: Okay. I guess my question is, 14 would there be two levels at this -- 15 MR. BITTER: No. 16 MS. BERRY: -- of people who are taking it 17 to be considered as possible appraisers and people who 18 would be taking it just for educational purposes? 19 MR. BITTER: No. 20 MS. BERRY: All grouped together? 21 MR. BITTER: My vision on this thing is it's 22 one thing of the same value to all, and the Linear 23 Appraisal Committee and whatever appraisers are involved 24 in implementing this educational program would also use it 25 to identify people that might be appraisers in the future. American Dairy Goat Association 287 1 In the meantime, however, many members that wanted to 2 participate more understand the program and what the 3 appraisers are doing in the field. 4 MS. SAUM: Rowe. 5 DR. ROWE: There may have been some 6 differences of ideas or concepts in the committee because 7 I had envisioned there would be sort of candidate-type 8 participants and auditor-type participants. 9 MR. BITTER: Well, if you're involved in 10 that since we're looking at setting up a subcommittee of 11 the Linear Appraisal Committee, it could evolve into that, 12 but I wasn't really looking at that, but I'm only one 13 person on the committee. 14 MS. SAUM: Hendrickson was next. 15 MS. HENDRICKSON: I agree that this is a 16 wonderful idea to sort of showcase the program and get 17 some people interested in it, but if you're going to be 18 analyzing a few people that are taking the session, there 19 has to be a grading curve or a yardstick of some sort for 20 the measurement, which would require some sort of a test 21 or paper work, not just the badge from convention. 22 MR. BITTER: We give them lots of paper. 23 MS. HENDRICKSON: But you're going to be 24 grading them. You're going to be grading them to some 25 degree, so ones you feel could make a good appraiser -- American Dairy Goat Association 288 1 MR. BITTER: Sure. 2 MS. HENDRICKSON: -- would be approached at 3 a later date? 4 MR. BITTER: Absolutely. We keep a copy. 5 They get a copy, and there's a copy leftover. Sure. 6 MS. SAUM: Reyna. 7 MS. PROCTOR: I move that we adopt his 8 recommendation. 9 MS. SAUM: That was Proctor. Okay. Reyna. 10 MS. REYNA: I fear that this would put a lot 11 of stress on the people trying to conduct an intensive 12 training session for appraisers. I think there would have 13 to be at least a two-level situation because the people 14 being seriously trained as appraisers need a lot of 15 attention. I don't like to see it diluted. 16 MS. SAUM: Faircloth. 17 MR. FAIRCLOTH: Well, I'm a little bit 18 confused, and I sat in that meeting last night until about 19 12:00 or 11:00 something, and I thought that this was to 20 take the place of one of our refresher sessions. Is that 21 not right, every other year? 22 MR. BITTER: No. This is to take the place 23 of training sessions. 24 MR. FAIRCLOTH: Well, I am confused, and if 25 we work much later tonight, I'm going to be tonight. American Dairy Goat Association 289 1 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 2 MS. CAMPBELL: I read this as being a 3 two-part -- I guess in my mind I saw two-part when I saw 4 "two-day." I realize that's not exactly what he said, but 5 I envisioned it being maybe a formal training session for 6 the appraisers one day, educational information. That's 7 the way I read it, but I think what he's asking is, is 8 that we accept this idea and then the implementation of 9 the whole idea needs to be fleshed out, but I don't think 10 he has all the -- anything laid out specifically, but it's 11 simply to give direction to them that this is some way to 12 proceed. 13 MS. SAUM: Sankey. 14 MS. SANKEY: Would this be in addition to a 15 regular training session or at some point in time replace 16 a training session? 17 MR. BITTER: If you look in your books at 18 the financial report that Lisa Shepard completed for you 19 you'll see that the training session this year cost us 20 $5,000. We want to move away from that if we can; and if 21 we can provide a nice program, a valuable program, for the 22 membership at convention by moving -- basically having 23 something akin to a judges training session at -- 24 MS. CAMPBELL: At a price. 25 MR. BITTER: Yeah, at a price, at convention American Dairy Goat Association 290 1 then we could use that to educate the membership in 2 general that attend and potentially identify some people 3 that are interested in becoming trainees. I would imagine 4 that anyone that wants to be a trainee would indicate to 5 us, you know, "I'm interested and I have the time and 6 will," and when they go through it we would -- you know, 7 we would be especially watching them. I'm sure there's at 8 least two or three people I can think of off the top of my 9 head that would like to do that and would enjoy doing it 10 at the convention because it saves them a plane ticket and 11 a weekend somewhere else. They can just come to the 12 convention and choose their time here at our convention to 13 take part in the educational program. 14 Ones that are identified and approved by the 15 committee or whatever then they could move into the 16 refresher session, which is what we do now by invitation, 17 and then if they successfully complete the -- basically 18 the training that a new person would have at the refresher 19 session, then they would go into field training. So the 20 only thing we're doing is taking away the stand-alone 21 training sessions, which are very expensive for everyone 22 involved, including the candidates, and moving it to the 23 convention, but not just for trainees, to provide an 24 opportunity for all the ADGA members that are attending. 25 MS. SAUM: Nixon. American Dairy Goat Association 291 1 MS. NIXON: I think that Allen has probably 2 covered what I was going to say. I sent letters when we 3 were doing a training session this year, I personally sent 4 e-mail letters to every ADGA judge plus 13 people that had 5 been identified as having other qualifications and invited 6 them to come participate, and we had three candidates. 7 It's very difficult for people, first of all, to make the 8 commitment. It's to say, "Okay, I'm going to do this," 9 because you're putting a whole lot on the line when you 10 come to a training session and say you're going to be an 11 appraiser; and in my opinion, if we offered a session 12 where they're all going to be here anyway, the animals are 13 here. We can use training conference animals. The 14 facility is here, thought we might get a larger pool to 15 choose from; and the side benefit of that, of course, is 16 teaching more about the program. 17 But it increases the pool size for appraiser 18 candidates, and it costs ADGA less money. It costs the 19 candidates less money, and we might end up with some 20 backup appraisers so that some of us that are getting more 21 and more gray hair will be able to retire before we're 90, 22 and that was the concept, and we don't know what the 23 details will be yet. If you like the idea of us doing it 24 then the committee can sit down and work out details and 25 come back to you before they do it. If you don't like the American Dairy Goat Association 292 1 concept of it being here, we can go ahead and have a 2 training session every two or three years for two people 3 or one person and try to increase our pool. Those are the 4 options that we've been facing for a number of years. 5 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Question. 6 MS. SAUM: Bozzo has called the question. 7 Does everybody feel like they have had the opportunity to 8 speak their two minutes and twice? 9 Reyna says, no, she needs more. 10 MS. REYNA: I think that the concept is 11 great. I think that having it, you know, in conjunction 12 with the convention and all that is great, but I see that 13 the committee members themselves are not quite clear on 14 what the form of this is to take, and it seems to me that 15 it needs to be worked on a bit before we vote on it. 16 MS. SAUM: Bozzo. 17 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: That's what he -- he 18 just wants to be able to get it approved, "This is a good 19 idea," take it back to the committee and have the 20 committee work on it. It's not -- my understanding is 21 we're not planning on having the linear appraisal training 22 session held next year, but it's so that Allen doesn't 23 spend a year working on it with the committee to come and 24 find out that the board doesn't think it's a good idea. 25 Right? American Dairy Goat Association 293 1 MR. BITTER: Right. 2 MS. SAUM: Okay. Strickland. 3 MS. STRICKLAND: I think I heard someone say 4 you would use the TC animals. 5 MS. NIXON: It's a possibility. 6 MS. STRICKLAND: That that would be adequate 7 animals, and it's a huge pressure to get those animals 8 together at the convention, let alone more. I just want 9 to throw this out. It seems to me in the past that we had 10 a training session where auditors could come, and in that 11 case we had much less cost. Is that a possibility if this 12 concept isn't approved? 13 MS. SAUM: Allen is shaking his head yes. 14 Okay. Have we discussed this enough? We're comfortable 15 voting on No. 7? So the committee is recommending in 16 concept that training sessions be changed from stand-alone 17 events for candidates only to a two-day educational 18 program offered to all at the beginning of each or every 19 other convention. Are we ready? All those in favor 20 please say "aye." 21 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 22 MS. SAUM: Opposed please say "no." (None.) 23 Abstentions? (None.) The motion passed. 24 Okay. We'll move to No. 8. 25 MR. BITTER: Okay. Recommend changes to the American Dairy Goat Association 294 1 appraisers daily payment schedules: Increase travel day 2 from $75 to $85, increase trainee from 65 to 85, increase 3 first year from 115 to -- basically these are all by 4 10-dollar increments per day per appraiser. The rationale 5 is to provide a modest yet meaningful salary increases, 6 and it's also to bring the trainee pay a little more in 7 line. Right now it's less than the travel pay, which 8 doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. 9 MS. SAUM: Rucker. 10 MR. RUCKER: Just a point of information. 11 You said they were all in 10-dollar increases. The 12 trainee is at 20. 13 MR. BITTER: Yes. Except the trainee. 14 MS. SAUM: Any other comments? 15 MR. DAUBERT: Call the question. 16 MS. SAUM: Okay. We are approving recommend 17 changes to the appraisers daily payment schedules: 18 increase travel day from 75 to 85, increase training from 19 65 to 85, increase the first year from 115 to 125, 20 increase the second and third years from 165 to 175, and 21 increase fourth and subsequent years from 190 to $200 a 22 day. All those in favor please say "aye." 23 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 24 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no"? 25 BOARD MEMBERS: No. American Dairy Goat Association 295 1 MS. SAUM: Can the no's raise their hands, 2 please? Altheide, Kempe, Goddard. Any abstentions? 3 Gustafson. The motion passed. No. 9. 4 MR. BITTER: No. 9, recommend adding the 5 following to the guidebook for clarification. The linear 6 appraisal booklet contains this information. For some 7 reason it never got into the guidebook. Under section 8 (G), linear appraiser scoring, "Adult animals can be 9 scored excellent with young stock being designated 10 extremely correct for similar quality." 11 MR. RUCKER: Question. 12 MS. SAUM: I heard somebody call the 13 question. Does anybody have any discussion? Okay. 14 Question on No. 9 has been called. All those in favor say 15 "aye." 16 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 17 MS. SAUM: Anyone opposed, "no"? (None.) 18 Abstentions? (None.) The motion passed. 19 MR. BITTER: Okay. No. 10, last night we 20 acted on the recommendation for the linear statistics 21 report; and this is what you've been getting for many 22 years that is in alphabetic order by state that includes 23 number of herds and number of animals, et cetera; and 24 we're looking at changing that from a list by states to 25 the appraisal trips and, therefore, you would be able to American Dairy Goat Association 296 1 compare the previous year's appraisal trip for that area 2 with the current year's appraisal trip. It seems to be a 3 little more logical to compare trips to trips when they're 4 usually all in the same -- pretty much the same collection 5 of states. Okay. 6 MS. SAUM: Any discussion on No. 10? 7 Considine. 8 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Well, I realize you 9 just said that you believe it's usually the same group of 10 states, but I know in our area Wisconsin is sometimes with 11 Illinois, sometimes with Iowa, often with Minnesota, but 12 sometimes not with Iowa and Illinois. I don't know how 13 that would be as consistent and as easy to follow. For me 14 it's easy now. 15 MR. BITTER: I thought you would handle it, 16 Daniel. 17 MR. DAUBERT: Question. 18 MS. SAUM: Any other discussion? Okay. 19 We're voting on No. 10, the linear statistics report, 20 which is the number of herds, the number of animals, being 21 provided to directors changed to be provided by appraisal 22 trips, comparing the previous year with the current year 23 instead of how you're getting it now by state. All those 24 in favor say "aye." 25 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. American Dairy Goat Association 297 1 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no"? 2 BOARD MEMBERS: No. 3 MS. SAUM: Can I have the no's raise their 4 hands? Altheide, Daubert, Helen Snyder, Maze, Anderson, 5 Senn, Reyna, Rucker, Petersen, Burks, Cassette, Considine, 6 Saum. 13. 7 Any abstentions? (None.) Oh, I'm sorry, I 8 missed Strickland "no." So that was -- are you a "no"? 9 MS. STRICKLAND: Yes. 10 MS. SAUM: Yes, you are a "no"? Okay. 11 MR. RUCKER: Who's on first? 12 MS. SAUM: Exactly. Any abstentions? 13 (None.) You said 14 no's? So the motion passed. 14 MR. BITTER: Okay. I know it passed, but 15 since it's close, those of you that were no's, did you 16 want to return to the -- or keep the alphabetical or did 17 you have another idea? 18 MR. RUCKER: Both. 19 MS. HENDRICKSON: Both. 20 MS. SAUM: I'm hearing do both. 21 MR. BITTER: Both? 22 MS. SAUM: Is that a big deal, Lisa? Do you 23 want to speak to that? I think it's going to fall to you 24 or Penny. 25 MR. BITTER: Yeah. American Dairy Goat Association 298 1 MS. SHEPARD: No, it's not a big deal to do 2 both, but as far as that, what is the information you're 3 really trying to gain from this report? 4 MS. SAUM: Rowe. 5 DR. ROWE: Actually, I was thinking that 6 part of the confusion of the reports as given was the 7 reports by month and where the months aren't comparable 8 because, you know, we do different things different 9 months. I think we have the September month and we were 10 still appraising in September, so that was my thinking in 11 discussion of this matter, was that by trip was more 12 logical because we were trying to look at more comparable 13 numbers. 14 MS. SAUM: Petersen. 15 MS. PETERSEN: Well, I voted in opposition 16 of it because the concept seems confusing to me that how 17 you're going to be able to tell what was involved in the 18 trip per se. 19 MR. BITTER: Okay. Well, how about we do 20 both? Since this has passed, how about we do both for a 21 year and see what happens? Does that work? 22 MS. PETERSEN: Works for me. 23 MS. SAUM: Yea. Okay. Let's move to 11 24 then. 25 MR. BITTER: Office policy to be that American Dairy Goat Association 299 1 transport herds be charged on a per head basis depending 2 on the number of animals and stock and the age of the 3 animals. We've had some members that were -- thought we 4 have -- thought we had changed the way they were charged 5 previous to 2003 compared to 2003 and/or 2004, and they 6 wanted to be charged on a per head basis because they were 7 bringing their animals to a host herd, incurring that 8 expense helping out the host herd, and what happened was 9 they were charged on a prorated percentage; and in one 10 situation a 4-H'er owed like close to a hundred dollars 11 because the host herd had like five or six goats and he 12 had five or six goats there, and that wasn't what he was 13 expecting to pay. 14 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 15 MS. STRICKLAND: This is total number of 16 animals at the stop? 17 MR. BITTER: Yes. 18 MS. STRICKLAND: Should the word "total 19 event" be put in? 20 MR. BITTER: I'm sorry. Where are you? 21 MS. STRICKLAND: I'm saying "be charged on a 22 per head basis depending upon the total number of animals 23 at the stop." 24 MR. BITTER: Yeah, I guess it's implied. If 25 you want to add "total," that's fine. American Dairy Goat Association 300 1 MS. SAUM: Rucker. 2 MR. RUCKER: Question on the administration 3 of this. I'm a host herd. We have a total of 50 animals 4 at our stop. Which animals are charged 8, and which 5 animals are charged 7? 6 MR. BITTER: Well, I'm not even sure of 7 that, but what I'm looking at is going back to the 8 and 7 8 and not the 7.59 and some kind of odd numbers that have 9 come out and that we got a complaint about that this year, 10 from, you know, it wasn't much different than 7 or 8, but 11 they were like "What is this? This has never been done 12 before." Okay. 13 The real problem here is like that little 14 4-H'er because his mother has told me secondhand that 15 she'll never appraise again and he'll never appraise his 16 his goats again unless we go back to the former way of 17 billing on a per goat basis. Okay? 18 MS. SAUM: Rucker. 19 MR. RUCKER: So for clarification of the 20 motion, the 4-H'er in question brought his four goats to 21 the host herd. He's going to be charged $32, the host 22 herd is going to be charged 158. 23 MR. BITTER: That's correct. 24 MR. RUCKER: Thank you. 25 MS. SAUM: Are we all clear then? Okay. American Dairy Goat Association 301 1 All right. We're voting on No. 11 that recommends office 2 policy to be that transport herds be charged on a per goat 3 basis depending upon the total number of animals at the 4 stop and the age of the animals. All those in favor say 5 "aye." 6 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 7 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no"? 8 BOARD MEMBERS: No. 9 MS. SAUM: No's raise their hands, please. 10 Altheide, Daubert, Helen Snyder, Hendrickson, Considine. 11 Any abstentions? Are you an abstention? 12 Okay, Maze is an abstention. Gustafson and Proctor, 13 abstentions. All right. The motion passed. One more. 14 MR. BITTER: Okay. Recommend that refresher 15 and training session hosts be offered appraisal at 50 16 percent off animal fees in the year of hosting or the 17 following year, and this has been done two or three or 18 four times in the past is my un