794 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 11 AMERICAN DAIRY GOAT ASSOCIATION 12 OCTOBER 29, 2004 13 BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING 14 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Taken before PATRICIA GONZALEZ, a Certified 22 Shorthand Reporter in Travis County for the State of Texas, 23 on the 29th day of October, 2004, between the hours of 24 8:04 a.m. and 11:48 a.m. at the ADGA ANNUAL MEETING, 25 Albuquerque Marriott Pyramid North, Albuquerque, New Mexico. 795 1 I N D E X 2 PAGE COMMITTEE REPORTS 3 Executive Committee Recommendations................... 799 4 (Action taken pp. 802, 804, 805, 808, 828, 835, 837, 843, 844, 845, 848, 851) 5 Finance............................................... 872 6 (Action taken pp. 873, 874, 875, 879, 894, 897, 902, 903, 910, 911, 917) 7 New Business.......................................... 932 8 (Action taken pp. 917, 935, 943, 944) (Motion to refer pp. 952) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 796 1 MS. SAUM: We'll go ahead and call the meeting 2 to order and get started and get our last few things of 3 business done, and then we can all go do our other things 4 we'd like to do. 5 We'll start with the roll call. 6 Phil Cassette. 7 MR. CASSETTE: Here. 8 MS. SAUM: Charlotte Sankey. 9 MS. SANKEY: Here. 10 MS. SAUM: Donna Anderson. 11 MS. ANDERSON: Here. 12 MS. SAUM: Helen Snyder. 13 MS. SNYDER: Here. 14 MS. SAUM: Allen Bitter. 15 MR. BITTER: Here. 16 MS. SAUM: Pete Snyder. 17 (No response) 18 MS. SAUM: Pete's here. He just stepped out 19 for a minute. 20 Cam Faircloth. 21 MR. FAIRCLOTH: Here. 22 MS. SAUM: Linda S. Campbell. 23 MS. CAMPBELL: Present. 24 MS. SAUM: Ruth Weaver. 25 MS. WEAVER: Here. 797 1 MS. SAUM: Bonnie Kempe. 2 MS. KEMPE: Here. 3 MS. SAUM: Carl Page. 4 MR. PAGE: Here. 5 MS. SAUM: Robin Saum is here. 6 Tom Rucker. 7 MR. RUCKER: Yes. 8 MS. SAUM: Patricia Dean. 9 MS. DEAN: Here. 10 MS. SAUM: George Altheide. 11 MR. ALTHEIDE: Here. 12 MS. SAUM: Daniel Considine. 13 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Here. 14 MS. SAUM: Dave Daubert. 15 MR. DAUBERT: Here. 16 MS. SAUM: Jamie Burks. 17 MR. BURKS: Here. 18 MS. SAUM: Marsha Gustafson. 19 MS. GUSTAFSON: Here. 20 MS. SAUM: Noah Goddard. 21 MR. GODDARD: Here. 22 MS. SAUM: Vivian Proctor. 23 MS. PROCTOR: Here. 24 MS. SAUM: Laurie Petersen. 25 MS. PETERSEN: Here. 798 1 MS. SAUM: Annette Maze. 2 MS. MAZE: Here. 3 MS. SAUM: Shari Reyna. 4 MS. REYNA: Here. 5 MS. SAUM: Mike Korhonen. 6 MR. KORHONEN: Here. 7 MS. SAUM: Pat Hendrickson. 8 MS. HENDRICKSON: Here. 9 MS. SAUM: Chris Tina Strickland. 10 MS. REYNA: Almost here. 11 MS. SAUM: Almost here. Okay. 12 Karen Senn. 13 MS. SENN: Here. 14 MS. SAUM: Jo Dean Rowe. 15 MS. ROWE: Here. 16 MS. SAUM: And Kristi Bozzo. 17 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Here. 18 MS. SAUM: And then Director Emeriti -- Pete 19 Snyder is in the room now. 20 Director Emeriti Lelia Berry. 21 MS. BERRY: Here. 22 MS. SAUM: Sally Callahan. 23 MS. CALLAHAN: Here. 24 MS. SAUM: Bob Cassette. 25 MR. CASSETTE: Here. 799 1 MS. SAUM: And Sheila Nixon. 2 MS. NIXON: Here. 3 MS. SAUM: Okay. We're going to start -- Phil 4 is passing out paperwork. We'll wait until he gets it all 5 passed out. 6 These are going to be recommendations that 7 were coming out of the EC. We can take them one at a time 8 if you'd like or we can -- 9 (Simultaneous responses) 10 MS. SAUM: Take them take them one at a time. 11 (Laughter) 12 MS. SAUM: We'll wait until Phil has them all 13 passed out before we start so we all know what we're talking 14 about and have a chance to look at it. 15 (Brief Pause) 16 MS. SAUM: Does everybody have -- we're going 17 to start with the one that's labeled "Finance Committee, 18 Recommendations to the ADGA Board of Directors." 19 Does everybody have that one? 20 The first thing is, the auditor's opinion, the 21 financial statement, tax return and operating statements -- 22 do you guys all have that? Yes? 23 (No verbal response) 24 MS. SAUM: Yes. We do. Okay. 25 This is coming out as recommendations from 800 1 EC -- you don't have? Oh, I thought you said you did. 2 MR. ALTHEIDE: Not yet. 3 (Brief Pause) 4 MS. SAUM: We forgot to announce it was 5 dress-down day. Kristi and I dressed down. Phil and Daniel 6 and Linda forgot. 7 MS. CAMPBELL: Some of us have to maintain a 8 professional -- 9 (Laughter) 10 MS. SAUM: Linda's maintaining her 11 professional appearance. 12 If I wore what I wore for my profession, I 13 wouldn't look this good. It would be a pair of scrubs. 14 MR. RUCKER: But, remember, appearances can be 15 deceiving. 16 MS. SAUM: Pardon me? 17 MR. RUCKER: Appearances can be deceiving. 18 MS. SAUM: That's true. Those scrubs hide it 19 all. 20 Okay. Do we all have it now, the one labeled 21 "Finance Committee"? Hopefully, it's the only one -- yes. 22 It's the only one of the papers labeled like that. 23 The first one is dealing with -- we've had 24 several members ask for financial information throughout the 25 year and at different times and just thought it would be 801 1 cleaner if we actually wrote down a policy that stated 2 exactly what was available to the members so that they would 3 know what they could have. 4 "The auditor's opinion, the financial 5 statement, the tax return and operating statements are 6 available to members upon request for the three previous 7 years. In addition to these, items will be posted on the 8 website each year within 30 days of completion of the 9 documents. Members will be charged $1 per page for the 10 preparation and mailing of these documents in hard copy." 11 That's basically the packet you get at the end 12 of the year that the auditor puts together for you. 13 The tax return is extra. Daniel is right. 14 Strickland. 15 Oh, yes. She's here. Please add her. Thank 16 you. 17 Does anybody have any questions on that? We'd 18 like to vote on that to accept that as a policy -- a formal 19 written policy. This is exactly what the attorneys in the 20 Missouri State Law has available to the members. 21 Hendrickson. 22 MS. HENDRICKSON: I may have missed it, but 23 did you say where these were going to appear in the 24 guidebook? 25 MS. SAUM: I don't think we were going to put 802 1 this in the guidebook, but if you'd like it there, we can. 2 MS. HENDRICKSON: I don't particularly want to 3 see it there. I just wondered -- 4 MS. SAUM: Okay. 5 MS. HENDRICKSON: I didn't catch it if you had 6 mentioned that it was going to be. 7 MS. SAUM: No. I'm sorry. 8 MS. HENDRICKSON: This will just be office 9 policy. 10 MS. SAUM: This will be office policy so that 11 they know, when somebody calls them, that those are the 12 documents that are available to the general membership. And 13 like it says, they'll be posted on the website as soon as 14 the documents are completed. So if they want them in hard 15 copy, they'll have to request them. 16 Any questions on that? 17 (No response) 18 MS. SAUM: All those in favor of this 19 statement signify by saying "aye." 20 (All those in favor of the motion so 21 responded.) 22 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 23 (No response) 24 MS. SAUM: Any abstentions? 25 (No response) 803 1 MS. SAUM: Motion passed. 2 The second recommendation before you is, "The 3 'Transaction Detail by Account' will be released annually 4 after the auditor review to any Director upon request. The 5 current year to date 'Transaction Detail by Account' will be 6 available as soon as possible after October 1st." 7 I'll just give you the reasoning behind that. 8 Coming out of EC was that a director certainly has the right 9 to ask for that information. I'm sure that it can be 10 helpful to them when we come to the Finance Committee Report 11 with details that they might want answered. 12 The one we were doing at the end of the year, 13 so that after the audit if there's things that were in a 14 different account than the auditor thought they should be, 15 that gives an opportunity to move those where they ought to 16 be before they're passed out. 17 The other one was "as soon as possible after 18 October 1st," is so that the directors can have them before 19 they come to Convention so that they can have those for the 20 Finance Committee Report. The only part about those is, 21 they haven't gone through the auditor at the end of the 22 year, so there may be a few things that will be moved to a 23 different account. Just an example would be, Lisa's salary 24 was quoted in one place, and it ended up, we moved it back 25 up to where it should be. So things -- little things like 804 1 that. 2 Does anybody have any questions about that? 3 (No response) 4 MS. SAUM: All those in favor of the 5 transaction by detail account release say "aye." 6 (All those in favor of the motion so 7 responded.) 8 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 9 (No response) 10 MS. SAUM: Abstentions? 11 (No response) 12 MS. SAUM: That motion passed. 13 The third one is a confidentiality statement. 14 "The 'Check Register' and 'Transaction Detail by Account' 15 will be provided to directors at no cost upon request. The 16 following Confidentiality Statement applies to these 17 documents." 18 It says, "Confidential Statement: This report 19 contains information that is privileged and confidential and 20 solely for the use of ADGA Directors. Any dissemination of 21 this information is at the Director's own risk. Any 22 Director disseminating this information agrees to hold AGDA 23 harmless from any and all liability that may result." And 24 our attorney, Mr. Dalton, has reviewed that statement and is 25 in agreement with it. 805 1 Senn. 2 MS. SENN: My question would just be, on the 3 check register, we had the problem with having numbers and 4 account numbers. Will there be correction to that prior 5 to -- is that going to be done, because that's not stated 6 here, that those numbers will be dark -- blacked out or 7 removed prior to the dissemination of it to the director. 8 MS. SAUM: Yes. We are working on that. 9 We're working with the QuickBooks to move that into another 10 field so that the information is still there, because the 11 office needs that information to do their work, and the 12 auditor does, but that field can be left out when it's 13 printed. 14 I'm not sure how it's going to work for things 15 that are already there. It may just be we have to go 16 through with a marker and black it out before it's sent. 17 But in the future, it should be changed. 18 Any other questions on that? 19 (No response) 20 MS. SAUM: All in favor of 3, the 21 confidentiality statement, signify by saying "aye." 22 (All those in favor of the motion so 23 responded.) 24 MS. SAUM: Opposed, no. 25 (No response) 806 1 MS. SAUM: Any abstentions? 2 (No response) 3 MS. SAUM: That motion passed also. 4 Do you want to do spoiled ballots next? It 5 says, "Executive Committee Recommendations, Spoiled Ballot 6 Procedure." 7 The first one, you can see where it's going to 8 be added to the guidebook, Page 126 V 2b. This is coming 9 out of EC as a recommendation as a member-friendly thing to 10 do, because we get spoiled ballots and the people may not -- 11 obviously, don't realize that their ballot isn't going to 12 count for something that they left off of it. Similar to if 13 you send in a registration form that needs more information, 14 you get a nice little letter that says, "This information 15 was missing." 16 So, "A brief letter will be sent to each 17 member whose Director election ballot is declared spoiled. 18 The letter will contain an explanation of the reason the 19 ballot was not counted." 20 This year, I think there were nine spoiled 21 ballots. Shirley, is that correct? 22 MS. McKENZIE: I think so. 23 MS. SAUM: And they were -- of the nine that 24 were actually issues with the signature card, something was 25 left off -- or a lot of things were left off or everything 807 1 was left off; those are not going to get a letter. But if 2 we can determine who they were, then they'll get the letter. 3 Berry. 4 MS. BERRY: Is there precedent for this? I've 5 never heard of such a thing happening, and I've been voting 6 in all kinds of things for years. It just seems like a 7 unique thing. 8 MS. SAUM: I think the EC took it as a 9 member-friendly thing to do, because, obviously, they didn't 10 complete it correctly. They didn't understand. We don't 11 want them to miss the opportunity to vote in an election 12 again next year because they didn't fill out their ballot 13 correctly. It's like that little chad thing; you've got to 14 punch it really hard. 15 MS. BERRY: That wasn't my question. My 16 question was: Is there a precedent for this? 17 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 18 MS. BERRY: I'm talking to any organizations. 19 I'm referring to any kind of balloting. 20 MS. CAMPBELL: Are you specifically referring 21 to Item 1? 22 MS. BERRY: Yes. 23 MS. CAMPBELL: Okay. I don't know that it's 24 unique. I can't say that there are -- I know of multiple 25 organizations who may offer the service. I think it's as a 808 1 service, but I can't tell you that there are a lot of 2 organizations that I'm involved with that do it, but I don't 3 think it's unusual. 4 MS. SAUM: Okay. Bitter. 5 MR. BITTER: Can this be worded so that it 6 includes both the director nomination election and the 7 director regular election? 8 MS. SAUM: I think we can accept that. 9 Do you have wording for me, Phil? 10 (Brief Pause) 11 MS. SAUM: Okay. So we're going to add, "A 12 brief letter will be sent to each member whose primary or 13 election ballot." Does that make it more clear? Is that 14 okay, Allen? 15 MR. BITTER: You don't want to drop the word 16 "director," though, do you? 17 MS. SAUM: No. Primary and/or director 18 election. 19 MR. BITTER: Okay. Thanks. 20 MS. SAUM: Okay. All those in favor of adding 21 this to the guidebook, please say "aye." 22 (All those in favor of the motion so 23 responded.) 24 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 25 (No response) 809 1 MS. SAUM: Abstentions? 2 Proctor. 3 MS. PROCTOR: I missed that, but I had a 4 spoiled -- evidently, either I was left off of a list or I 5 don't know what happened to my ballot, but it wasn't 6 counted, so -- I didn't get a letter. 7 MS. SAUM: You didn't. You didn't, but you 8 would next year if you do the same thing. 9 MS. PROCTOR: Okay. But I thought you said 10 you did it this year. 11 MS. SAUM: No, we didn't. We're asking -- 12 this was to ask if we could do it in the future. 13 MS. PROCTOR: And if my count was right, there 14 were 104 spoiled ballots, and if you don't have -- I'll get 15 to that next time. 16 MS. SAUM: Yeah. It depends on what -- I 17 think we were addressing those ballots with the signature 18 stub issues that weren't counted. The signature stub, 19 according to the guidebook, has to be filled out in its 20 entirety. So these nine were missing either a signature, a 21 printed name, membership number or state. 22 MS. PROCTOR: Mine wasn't like that. I had 23 twisted -- I had twisted the two names and then I scratched 24 and corrected them and initialed what my correction was, and 25 that was what I did wrong. I can accept that. 810 1 MS. SAUM: I'll tell you later why that didn't 2 count. I don't want to tell everybody. 3 MS. PROCTOR: I can't help it if I'm not 4 perfect. 5 MS. SAUM: No. God love you. You are 6 perfect. Don't you worry, Vivian. 7 Next is, guidebook, it's Page 125 I 5h, "The 8 list of members who voted in the election will be released 9 upon request. The spoiled ballots that can be identified 10 will be included in the list of members who voted. The list 11 of spoiled Director election ballots will not be released." 12 The intent on that was because that would 13 single out members and indicate more than, probably, what 14 was necessary. 15 Rowe. 16 MS. ROWE: I understand the concept, but what 17 do you mean by "released"? I mean, I guess I would prefer 18 to see them just available for inspection, something like 19 that. I believe it's my member's rights for privacy to 20 whether they vote or not. If they don't like either 21 candidate, they may not wish to vote. And I guess I just 22 believe that that invades the member's privacy. 23 MS. SAUM: And I think that many of us share 24 that concern on the EC, but this came from the attorney. 25 Our attorney said they have the right to have this. 811 1 Rowe. 2 MS. ROWE: But is "available for inspection" 3 the same concept but without quite the distribution of 4 information? 5 MS. SAUM: Berry. 6 I'm not sure. Do you want to address that, 7 Daniel? 8 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: I think it would 9 satisfy the requirements of the opinion given us to -- by 10 Brundage -- Walt Brundage from Missouri and Walter Dalton 11 from North Carolina. 12 But in a practical sense, when our members 13 are, you know, all over the United States, to say that it's 14 available for inspection, which is actually all that's 15 required by Missouri law, even on the other documents -- we 16 don't actually have to send them to people. All that's 17 really required on any of these is that we make them 18 available for someone to come and see them. So you could 19 restrict it that way, but then very few people would have 20 the opportunity to get that. 21 MS. SAUM: Berry was next. 22 MS. BERRY: I don't like this at all on a 23 basis of privacy, and I would like to know who specifically 24 is going to request these. It's nobody's business whether I 25 vote or not, or if I choose not to. I don't want that 812 1 information given out. 2 MS. SAUM: I understand what you're saying. 3 I'm just telling you, this is what our attorney said we have 4 to make available to members and that it is -- 5 MS. BERRY: To members. 6 MS. SAUM: To members. Not just Directors, 7 but to members, and that it is common practice in other ways 8 that there's a list of those who voted. 9 I'm not saying that I like it. I'm just 10 saying that's what the law requires. 11 Daubert. 12 MR. DAUBERT: Balloting is handled within the 13 states by the State's Attorney General's Office. They have 14 a policy of all of the State's Attorney Generals around the 15 United States, and the policy is -- recommendation policy, 16 that these lists are only released under two conditions. 17 One is to a candidate that is official candidate or to law 18 enforcement. If I walk in and try to get a list of who 19 voted in an election, I cannot get it. The policy is, 20 throughout the United States, only two categories are 21 allowed that list. 22 MS. SAUM: I disagree with that, Dave. I can 23 go to my county Board of Elections and peruse through any 24 election and see who voted. 25 Altheide. 813 1 MR. ALTHEIDE: Yeah. I know what you may be 2 able to do in your county, but I checked for Iowa 3 specifically, and specifically in Iowa, the list of those 4 who voted is available for sale to political organizations 5 and can only be used for the purpose of disseminating 6 political information or soliciting political contributions, 7 and failure to abide by that is a misdemeanor. 8 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 9 MS. CAMPBELL: In my experience, this has been 10 quite -- a common policy in many organizations, is to have 11 this list of information available, and it's also -- I've 12 worked with the Board of Elections in helping to conduct 13 elections many years, and this is public information in the 14 majority of the areas where I've worked. 15 I understand the hesitation, the concern, the 16 respect for privacy. Just a reminder, this is not how you 17 voted. This is simply that you were a registered voter who 18 cast a vote in that election. 19 So it's not that proprietary information. And 20 if the member is perfectly aware, by having this in the 21 guidebook, that information is there. If they choose not to 22 participate in the process, they do that with this 23 knowledge, but this is -- it is not an uncommon occurrence 24 at all. 25 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 814 1 MS. STRICKLAND: I don't want to be on the 2 unpopular side here, but I believe this information should 3 be available. I think there's a difference between having a 4 list in your hand and going into an elections office and 5 seeing who voted. 6 I think that we need to ask the membership 7 what it is they prefer. Do they want their names on a list 8 that's -- anybody could disseminate once they have it? 9 So I will move to table the discussion of this 10 until we can ask the members through News and Events their 11 opinion. 12 MR. ALTHEIDE: Second. 13 MS. SAUM: Second by Altheide. 14 Reyna, is it discussion for the motion to 15 refer? 16 (No verbal response) 17 MS. SAUM: Reyna. 18 MS. REYNA: I hate to disagree with my 19 esteemed colleague -- 20 (Laughter) 21 MS. REYNA: -- but I'm not sure that this is 22 an issue that should be deferred since we have a legal 23 opinion. I'm afraid we don't have a choice here. 24 MS. SAUM: I'm going to let -- 25 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: No. But I think -- 815 1 MS. SAUM: Considine. 2 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: -- that I probably 3 should explain a little more about what was given to us -- 4 MS. SAUM: Can we let Daniel just read the 5 attorney's opinion? 6 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: -- because it has to do 7 with whether it's proper to refer this or to take action. 8 MS. SAUM: Just one second. She wants to -- 9 withdraw your motion. Is that right? 10 It's a privilege motion. We need to either 11 decide to lay it on the table and it's gone, or if we want 12 to debate, you have to take it off. 13 Strickland. 14 MS. STRICKLAND: Because I'm esteemed, I will 15 withdraw my emotion -- 16 (Laughter) 17 MS. STRICKLAND: -- emotion. That, too. I 18 will withdraw my motion at this time. 19 MS. SAUM: Thank you for being esteemed at 20 this time. 21 (Laughter) 22 MS. SAUM: Daniel Considine -- and the second 23 withdrew also, Altheide. 24 Considine. 25 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. I gave you a 816 1 quick understanding that we, in EC, got from this material 2 that we got from Brundage. The fact is, though, that in 3 regard to election list, he wasn't as clear as he was -- he 4 didn't think the law was as clear as it is with those 5 financial statements, and the opinion that he gave was based 6 on the fact that membership lists and all reports of 7 activities of the Association are clearly to be available to 8 the membership and that election lists, which isn't a term 9 that was used in any of the statutes, could be -- may very 10 well be interpreted to be included if it got to a court of 11 law, but it isn't -- they were not -- there isn't such a 12 thing listed in the law that they found. 13 In other words, there wasn't a place saying, 14 "You must release this list of the people who voted that 15 we're calling it election list." He just thinks that if it 16 came to a case, it -- they probably would be ruled to be the 17 same as the other kinds of materials for conducting business 18 that the memberships are entitled to. 19 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 20 MR. ALTHEIDE: I having specifically gone out 21 and looked at the section of the Missouri Not-For-Profit 22 Act, it clearly states in there that the list of eligible 23 voters and the number of votes that they have must be 24 provided. To me, this is not a business record. Whether or 25 not someone exercises their right to vote is not a business 817 1 record. It is a member record. 2 MS. SAUM: Gustafson. 3 MS. GUSTAFSON: To take sort of a 4 conservative -- to meet both the legal requirements that 5 this list be available, can we simply amend this to read 6 that the election voted in the election will be available 7 for inspection until such time -- you know, to amend that so 8 they can inspect it in the office and then put it before the 9 membership if they want this list maintained only for 10 inspection or if they would like it to be released upon 11 request? That way, we're covering the legal aspect of it. 12 It's there. It's available. But let the members decide 13 whether or not they want this released. 14 MS. SAUM: Do we have a second to that 15 motion -- to the amendment? Burks. 16 So we're discussing -- they want to add, in 17 the first sentence, "The list of members who voted in the 18 election will be available for inspection in the ADGA 19 office," and then strike the rest of that sentence. And 20 then, "The spoiled ballots that can be identified will be 21 included." 22 And then the second part of her motion is, I 23 think, to send a poll to the membership in the News and 24 Events -- am I right, Marsha -- to ask their opinion on 25 whether they want it released and in printed form available 818 1 to be mailed. 2 Rowe. 3 MS. ROWE: I'd like some opinion from 4 Executive Committee as to if an interim policy is really 5 needed or advisable if we're taking it to the membership. I 6 mean, I can see either adopting, say, a policy that she's 7 suggesting or taking it to the membership. I'm just 8 questioning the need to do both. 9 MS. SAUM: I think, from the EC, we'd like to 10 have something, because we've had several people requesting 11 that this year. I think after the EC decided to release 12 that, we had seven or nine requests from directors. 13 Is that right, Shirley? 14 MS. McKENZIE: Yes. 15 MS. SAUM: So, I mean, people are asking for 16 it, and I think there were two members who actually asked 17 for it -- am I right -- that asked for those who voted in 18 the election. Were there two members? 19 MS. McKENZIE: Yes. 20 MS. SAUM: So, I mean, there are people out 21 there asking for it. And if we don't have something to say 22 back to them other than just our opinion, it really -- it 23 would be better for the Board. 24 Considine. 25 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Well, and I think that 819 1 although it isn't as clean to just decide it now, that by 2 making a statement that it is available for inspection, we 3 probably are in -- out of the area of lawsuits being 4 possible. In other words, we've done something, and even 5 though it isn't clear what we have to do, that much action 6 would probably prevent anything from getting it to courts. 7 MS. SAUM: Hendrickson. 8 MS. HENDRICKSON: As a person who lives on the 9 opposite coast to the office, the chance of me inspecting 10 this is real slim, and I feel that if it's made available 11 for somebody that lives in North Carolina or an adjoining 12 state where they can drive over in their lunch hour and look 13 at it, I'd like to be able to see it, too. And I'm against 14 just saying "available for inspection." I would rather see 15 this change that it's only available to directors if you're 16 going to change it at all. 17 MS. SAUM: Considine. 18 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Well, the type of 19 information that needs to be available to members could 20 include this, depending on your interpretation of what is 21 required. So I can see the idea of trying to make it 22 available to just directors. Maybe that's more acceptable. 23 But as far as taking action here that is going to keep us 24 from having to defend ourselves, that may not be quite good 25 enough. 820 1 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 2 MS. STRICKLAND: If it's an issue that it is a 3 document that should be available to members, just making it 4 available to directors I don't think is acceptable, because 5 we're members. And I would speak in opposition to this for 6 the reasons Pat described, and, as well, we go back to these 7 political aspects. If someone running as a director wants 8 to know, in their district, who was most likely to vote, 9 that list would give them that information for, you know, 10 dissemination of letters, you know, instead of having the 11 expense of sending letters to the whole district or whatever 12 they want to do. 13 MS. SAUM: Berry. 14 MS. BERRY: Well, I still am very puzzled 15 about why someone would want this information, and I'd like 16 to know from one of the directors who is requesting this 17 type of information. Perhaps I don't -- I misunderstand the 18 reason that they would want this. 19 MS. SAUM: I don't want to single out the 20 directors who asked for it. 21 MS. BERRY: I'm asking for one of them to 22 volunteer to explain why this is seen as something they 23 would like. 24 MS. SAUM: Reyna and then Proctor. 25 MS. REYNA: I'm one of the directors that 821 1 asked for it, and I asked for it specifically because I had 2 a number of people contact me and wanted to know how they 3 could find out whether or not their vote was actually in 4 there and counted, and I asked for it and I called them and 5 told them their names were there. 6 MS. SAUM: Proctor. 7 MS. PROCTOR: I was one of those that asked 8 for it, too. For one reason, you can't tell who voted if 9 you don't know who -- if you don't get the spoiled ballots, 10 you can't tell who voted. And so without them, it's -- our 11 point is moot and I don't see any reason -- I mean, who's 12 going to be embarrassed if you voted or if you didn't vote, 13 but it's nice to know who does vote. And it's not telling 14 you anything, but if you don't get them all, you can't tell 15 anything. 16 MS. SAUM: Rowe. 17 MS. ROWE: Well, does our current office 18 policy allow an individual member to verify that their vote 19 was counted by inquiring in the office? I mean, one would 20 think that an individual member would be able to check and 21 see if they so -- you know, wanted that information. 22 MS. SAUM: Shirley is shaking her head "no." 23 Has anybody ever called you and asked you 24 that, Shirley? 25 MS. McKENZIE: No. Not that I'm aware of. No 822 1 one has ever asked me if they voted. 2 MS. SAUM: Okay. Hendrickson. 3 MS. HENDRICKSON: There's two reasons that 4 I -- I didn't request it, but I would like it when I run the 5 next time so I know who did vote. And some of the people 6 that I know personally that haven't voted, I'd like to ask 7 them why they don't bother to pony up $.37 and take a couple 8 of minutes to fill out a ballot, because they're very vocal 9 about complaining about things, but, yet, they never vote. 10 So for that reason alone, I'd like to know who didn't vote, 11 especially people I see on a regular basis. 12 MS. SAUM: Rowe. 13 MS. ROWE: And that is exactly why I want it 14 private -- 15 (Laughter) 16 MS. ROWE: -- because I think it's a member's 17 privilege to choose to exercise their right to vote or not 18 exercise their right to vote. 19 MS. SAUM: Gustafson. 20 MS. GUSTAFSON: Irregardless of the privacy 21 issue, I think we have to look at the baseline of this. 22 Do I necessarily want all of my information 23 out there? No. But, legally, if we are going to protect 24 this organization from lawsuit, this information has to be 25 available, if I understand the laws correctly. Minimally, 823 1 we have to have it where they can come in in the office and 2 look at it if they want to, or we're open to legal action. 3 MS. SAUM: Bob Cassette. 4 MR. BOB CASSETTE: Yeah. I think the issues 5 are clear. You must make the list available. Going beyond 6 that, as far as Pat's point, somebody being far away or 7 whatever so that they could be -- get it so that members 8 could also get it, the question is where the -- what we 9 provide to the members now with the cost of membership is 10 very close; perhaps if you're going to do this, you'd want 11 to look at putting a cost for providing it. 12 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 13 MR. ALTHEIDE: Well, I think I heard what 14 Daniel said differently. I thought Daniel said that this 15 was a gray area on the release of those who voted and that 16 the opinion of the attorney was releasing the list would 17 short-circuit any potential lawsuits -- not that we would 18 necessarily win or lose the lawsuits, but the attorney 19 thought it was a gray area not clearly defined in the law, 20 but by releasing it, it would eliminate the possibility of 21 someone threatening to sue to get the information. 22 MS. SAUM: The law doesn't preclude it being 23 released. So in the attorney's opinion -- I don't have it 24 directly quoted, but if it went to Court, he felt the Courts 25 would be saying it doesn't preclude it. So, therefore, if a 824 1 member is asking for it, it should be released. 2 Reyna -- he felt that -- they lean as, "more 3 is better." 4 MS. SAUM: Considine, Daniel. 5 I'll be right back to you. He's going to read 6 something from the attorney. I won't forget you, Shari. 7 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: "We are not clear what 8 constitutes an election list. The Non-For-Profit statutes 9 do not refer to election lists. However, membership lists 10 must be made available per section above. To the extent an 11 election list is contained in the resolutions of the Board 12 of Directors relating to characteristics, qualifications, 13 rights, limitations and obligations of members, minutes of 14 member meetings or records of all actions approved by the 15 Board of Directors in the last three years or records taken 16 by any committee of the Board of Directors appointed to 17 oversee and handle elections, this information is subject to 18 disclosure." 19 So hopefully, that's -- I mean, he said, 20 "We don't know for sure that election list is part of these, 21 but if someone wants to make a case that election list is 22 part of these things, then you would have to defend it." 23 MS. SAUM: Reyna. I told you I wouldn't 24 forget. 25 MS. REYNA: Thank you. 825 1 You know, given that a few directors asked for 2 this, and two members, aren't we getting awfully excited 3 about something that is probably -- not everybody is going 4 to ask for it. I would definitely think that the cost of 5 dissemination is in order, but any time that we can avoid 6 even the near occasion of a lawsuit, I think we should do 7 so, and I am definitely against differential access, in the 8 sense that someone who lives in Spindle has access, but I 9 don't from Oregon. 10 MS. SAUM: Bob cassette. 11 MR. BOB CASSETTE: I think the issue -- and 12 I've been involved with, regularly, elections for years. 13 I'm a warden. It's a right of the citizens to know, in a 14 regular election, how you vote or if you vote or don't vote. 15 And, of course, ordinarily, the procedure is that it's 16 available for inspection. It's not released. It's 17 available for inspection. 18 So I think the question comes down here -- I 19 don't see the problem even with us releasing who voted and 20 who didn't vote. The question then comes, whether -- like 21 with the motion here, is that, "Would it be available at the 22 office or whether -- of course, because of such a wide area 23 of our membership -- that it would be made available, you 24 know, through mail or whatever?" 25 MS. SAUM: I think we've had a lot of 826 1 discussion on this topic. We're to the point we need to 2 vote, I think, on the amendment that has been proposed by 3 Gustafson and seconded by Burks, that, "The list of members 4 who voted in the election will be available for inspection 5 in the ADGA office." That's the first sentence. The rest 6 of that sentence is struck. 7 Cassette, Phil. 8 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: I just wonder, Marsha, 9 if you would be amenable to a date. The way I read that, 10 that is forever. You're saying that they'll be available 11 for inspection without saying -- for inspection -- available 12 for inspection within, you know, 120 days after the 13 election, 6 months after the election. Just saying they 14 will be available sounds like it's a permanent "100-plus 15 year, we must maintain these records," and I don't think 16 that's your intent. So if you could add a time frame and 17 the second agree to it, I would be more comfortable that we, 18 then, don't have this ongoing issue that we have to maintain 19 that over time gets lost. 20 MS. GUSTAFSON: Okay. I would amend my motion 21 that the list be available 30 days post-finalization of the 22 election and that it be maintained for three years. 23 MS. SAUM: Is that okay with you, Jamie? 24 MR. BURKS: Yes. 25 MS. SAUM: Considine. 827 1 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: I think there may be a 2 mechanical problem with that motion, in that we are keeping 3 those materials in the accountant's office for that time 4 frame and they are not in the -- our possession until later 5 than that. 6 MS. SAUM: I believe they have 30 days to 7 return them to us, don't they, Shirley? They're returned to 8 us at 30 days. 9 Shirley. 10 MS. McKENZIE: So would we like to include in 11 the CPA's duties compiling this list of voters? Because the 12 one that was just compiled actually was done by office 13 staff, and it is a very lengthy, tedious job, yes. 14 MS. SAUM: Okay. Can we do this motion and 15 finish it and then come back to who's going to do it? Are 16 we comfortable with doing that? 17 MS. GUSTAFSON: If they need more than 30 18 days, I'm agreeable to 60. 19 MS. SAUM: Okay. Jamie -- 20 MR. BURKS: Yes. 21 MS. SAUM: -- 60 okay with you? 22 Okay. So, "The list of members who voted in 23 the election will be available for inspection in the ADGA 24 office 60 days after the election and maintained for 3 25 years." Yes? 828 1 (No verbal response) 2 MS. SAUM: Okay. Are we all clear on what 3 we're voting on then? 4 All right. All in favor of the amendment to 5 the motion by Gustafson signify by saying "aye." 6 (All those in favor to the motion so 7 responded.) 8 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "nos." 9 (All those in opposition of the motion so 10 responded.) 11 MS. SAUM: Abstentions? 12 (No response) 13 MS. SAUM: The "yes" votes, please. 14 Sankey, Altheide, Kempe, Helen Snyder, Weaver, 15 Senn, Dean, Rowe, Rucker, Burks, Gustafson, Phil Cassette, 16 Kristi Bozzo. 13. 17 The amendment to the motion failed. So we're 18 back to the original motion. 19 Does anybody want to -- of course, Bitter. 20 MR. BITTER: The same comments, can we make it 21 to include both the primary and the general elections in the 22 second one. Is that agreeable to the EC? 23 MS. SAUM: Yes. 24 Is that agreeable to the rest of you? 25 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Yes. 829 1 (Simultaneous responses) 2 MS. SAUM: I'm speaking for them. "Yes." 3 Strickland. 4 MS. STRICKLAND: Two minutes. Right? 5 MS. SAUM: Two minutes and twice. 6 MS. STRICKLAND: Okay. I speak in favor of 7 this action. I think we need to be really careful of member 8 perception, that we are not keeping something from the 9 membership that they feel they're entitled and they are 10 entitled to have. 11 We have to realize that we release the 12 membership directly -- directory. We just released it to 13 nonmembers, which is a lot more information than a list of 14 who voted in the election. 15 We cannot police member ethics. We cannot, 16 granted, release the list and have a member not put it up on 17 the Internet. That is not our job. We cannot prevent a 18 director from harassing a member whether they voted or not, 19 but there are mechanisms through the -- sorry. Nothing 20 personal, District 7. 21 (Laughter) 22 MS. STRICKLAND: I don't want you to be 23 steamed over here. 24 There are avenues for complaints for conduct 25 detrimental to the Association, which, if your director is 830 1 out there doing that, I think that falls in that. 2 So I think we have mechanisms in place to 3 protect the membership and I fully support that this data be 4 released. 5 MS. SAUM: Rucker. 6 MR. RUCKER: I'm willing to make a motion, if 7 necessary, but to be consistent with our policy on the 8 financial documents, can we add a $1 per page charge to 9 this? If the EC accepts, that's fine. If not, I'll make 10 the motion as needed. 11 MS. SAUM: Let's -- do you want to just accept 12 that, the EC? 13 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Yes. 14 (Simultaneous responses) 15 MS. SAUM: They're all saying "Yes." 16 Okay. So the cost will be $1 per page. Is 17 that right, Tom? 18 MR. RUCKER: Consistent with the other 19 documents we release. 20 MS. PROCTOR: What size page? 21 MS. SAUM: 8-1/2 by 11. 22 Callahan. 23 MS. CALLAHAN: I think that when this 24 information is released to the membership, you need to put a 25 sentence in there to make it clear it is a list of voters, 831 1 not how they voted, because I think that there are people 2 who could be intimidated if they felt that people would know 3 how they voted. 4 MS. SAUM: Berry. 5 MS. BERRY: They are going to think that. And 6 my whole problem with this is, I see this as a potential for 7 intimidation of potential voters. I don't want anybody 8 calling me up and asking me why I didn't vote, and I think 9 this is a really bad thing. 10 MS. SAUM: Do you want me to tell you what 11 Daniel said? 12 (Laughter) 13 MS. SAUM: Anybody else have any comments? 14 (No response) 15 MS. SAUM: Okay. So we're voting on No. 2. 16 It's been amended and accepted by the EC twice. "The list 17 of members who voted in the primary and the general 18 election" -- that's added -- "will be released upon request. 19 The spoiled ballots that can be identified will be included 20 in the list of members who voted. The list of spoiled 21 director election ballots will not be released." And then 22 the sentence at the end should be, "Members will be charged 23 $1 per page for the preparation and mailing of these 24 documents in hard copy." 25 Proctor. 832 1 MS. PROCTOR: Can we vote on the last sentence 2 separately? Because I'd vote for the first part and against 3 the last sentence. 4 MS. SAUM: I'm agreeable to division of the 5 question. 6 Is that okay with the EC? Does anybody have 7 an objection to that? 8 (Simultaneous discussion) 9 MS. SAUM: Vivian would like to divide the 10 last sentence, "Members will be charged $1 a page." Is 11 there a second to that? 12 (Simultaneous discussion) 13 MS. PROCTOR: "The list of spoiled election 14 ballots will not be released," I'd like that on record that 15 I voted against that, and I want to vote for the other one. 16 MS. SAUM: I think what this is saying is, if 17 a spoiled ballot is received, if we can identify who that 18 person was who voted, it will be on the list of those who 19 voted, but it will not be provided as a separate list. 20 So I if voted -- 21 MS. PROCTOR: I can buy that. 22 MS. SAUM: Okay. That's the intent -- the 23 intent -- 24 MS. PROCTOR: There would be no separate list. 25 Right? 833 1 MS. SAUM: Correct. But if we can identify 2 that you did vote, even though your vote didn't count, you 3 will just be included in the list. 4 MS. PROCTOR: Fine. 5 MS. SAUM: All right. So she's okay. 6 Petersen. 7 MS. PETERSEN: Okay. Going back to the other 8 one that we already voted on, it says it will be released to 9 members. This one just says it will be released upon 10 request. Is it to just members or it's to anybody upon 11 request? 12 MS. SAUM: That should be to members. Is it 13 okay with the EC, after the first sentence, to add "request 14 by ADGA members" -- wait a minute -- "to members" -- let me 15 read the whole thing so we're clear. 16 "The list of members who voted in the primary 17 and general election will be released to members upon 18 request." That will be the first sentence. So we cover 19 that we don't release it to the general public. 20 Strickland. 21 MS. STRICKLAND: Just for clarification, would 22 you agree to add to the line that Vivian was referring to, 23 that -- the last sentence read, "A separate list of spoiled 24 director election ballots will not be released"? 25 MS. SAUM: You want to make that a separate 834 1 sentence, Chris, that the -- 2 MS. STRICKLAND: Well, instead of saying -- 3 MS. SAUM: "A separate list of spoiled ballots 4 will not be released." 5 MS. STRICKLAND: Instead of saying "the list" 6 so that it's clear that it is a separate -- we're not going 7 to pull out the people who had spoiled ballots and make that 8 a list, to address Vivian's concern. 9 MS. SAUM: "A separate list of spoiled" -- 10 okay. 11 Do you want me to read the whole thing so we 12 all know where we are? 13 (Simultaneous responses) 14 MS. SAUM: Okay. "The list of members who 15 voted in the primary and general election will be released 16 to members upon request. The spoiled ballots that can be 17 identified will be included in the list of members who 18 voted. A separate list of spoiled director election ballots 19 will not be released. Members will be charged $1 per page 20 for the preparation and mailing of these documents in hard 21 copy." 22 Does that sound good? 23 (No verbal response) 24 MS. SAUM: Okay. Do you have a question? 25 Proctor. 835 1 MS. PROCTOR: Well, I agree with the intent, 2 but I don't think it's exactly saying what you mean. 3 MS. SAUM: Okay. Help us. 4 MS. PROCTOR: Well, it's not clear in what 5 you're saying -- it's not clear to me in what you're saying 6 that we're going to include the spoiled ballot voters on the 7 regular list. That's not clear to me, so I assume I'm 8 average. 9 (Laughter) 10 MS. SAUM: It says, "The spoiled ballots that 11 can be identified will be included in the list of members 12 who voted." 13 Is that -- 14 MS. PROCTOR: I'll buy that. 15 MS. SAUM: Okay. And then, "A separate list 16 of spoiled director election ballots will not be released." 17 MS. PROCTOR: Moot point, then. 18 MS. SAUM: Okay. All right. All in favor of 19 the wording, please signify by saying "aye." 20 (All those in favor of the motion so 21 responded.) 22 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 23 (All those in opposition to the motion so 24 responded.) 25 MS. SAUM: Any abstentions? 836 1 (No response) 2 MS. SAUM: "No" votes, please. 3 Altheide, Kempe, Daubert, Pete Snyder, Weaver, 4 Rowe, Burks, Gustafson. 5 MS. SAUM: Okay. There were 8 "no" votes. So 6 the motion passed. 7 Nixon. 8 MS. NIXON: I just want this really clear in 9 my head. If I choose to cast a blank ballot, that will be 10 considered a spoiled ballot. Is that correct? 11 MS. SAUM: No. 12 MS. NIXON: No? Okay. 13 MS. SAUM: A spoiled ballot that we're 14 referring to is the signature. Your signature stub, if you 15 don't fill it out completely, then your ballot won't count. 16 MS. NIXON: Okay. So if I cast a blank ballot 17 that is not spoiled, I would be counted as voting in the 18 election. 19 MS. SAUM: Yes. Yes. Definitely. 20 Okay. The next thing is "Executive Committee 21 Recommendations," and then there's a slash that says 22 "Staffing." 23 The first item before you is a salary increase 24 of 3 percent effective January 2005 for Shirley McKenzie, 25 the Association Manager. It's -- $1,500 is the total amount 837 1 of the increase. The cost of living increase in North 2 Carolina last year was 2.2 percent. So it's basically just 3 a couple of dollars more than the cost of living increase in 4 North Carolina. 5 Any discussion on that? 6 (No response) 7 MS. SAUM: All those in favor say "aye." 8 (All those in favor of the motion so 9 responded.) 10 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 11 (No response) 12 MS. SAUM: Abstentions? 13 (No response) 14 MS. SAUM: Motion carried. 15 The second item: Recommendation from the EC 16 is to enter into a new contract with Lisa Shepard as the 17 Performance Programs Coordinator for a period of two years. 18 Her contract ends shortly -- the end of November. 19 MS. SHEPARD: November 11th. 20 MS. SAUM: November 11th. That's very 21 shortly. 22 The contract rate is $18 an hour with a 23 maximum annual payment of $27,000. Ten trips are planned 24 annually, eight to the ADGA office and two to other events 25 at a cost expected at around $6,000. The trips would be 838 1 like the Linear Appraisal Session. Typically, the 2 Performance Programs Manager Coordinator goes to that. 3 Rucker. 4 MR. RUCKER: Just as a point of clarification, 5 is she considered independent or an employee? 6 MS. SAUM: An independent contractor. 7 Nixon. 8 MS. NIXON: Have we not in the past asked our 9 employees to leave the room when we discuss matters of 10 salary and things of that sort? Was that out of order or am 11 I incorrect in doing that? 12 MS. SAUM: Phil Cassette. 13 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Several years ago, this 14 was sent as a constitutional item to the membership to 15 change and add the words where it asked for an executive 16 session and add the words besides just "purchase of 17 property," but the discussion of salary and legal matters 18 and that was not approved by the voters as a constitutional 19 change. The only executive sessions come in two areas, 20 purchase of property and if the member requests. 21 MS. NIXON: Okay. Thank you. 22 MS. SAUM: She's actually a member. She could 23 request if she wanted. She has a dual role -- more than a 24 dual role at this point, I think. 25 Does anybody have any questions about that? 839 1 Any discussion? 2 Cassette -- Phil Cassette. 3 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: I know I'm aware of it 4 and we have discussed it, but I would ask if Daniel 5 Considine, who is basically -- you know, covered the 6 presidency during a period of time, and, specifically, this 7 last, would update the Board as to why the Executive 8 Committee is going in this way instead of dealing with the 9 resumes that were received for the position. 10 I mean, I just think we're going through this, 11 and I do believe this is the correct -- and did vote for it 12 in Executive Committee, but I think the Board should be 13 updated as to, you know, kind of that process. 14 Not lengthy, Daniel, but short. 15 MS. SAUM: That's correct, Phil, we should, 16 because when we came out of these mid-year EC meetings, you 17 did have a recommendation that we do hire another manager in 18 the office because we had gone from four managers down to 19 just Shirley, with the death of Jim Wilson. 20 Since that time, obviously, Lisa was hired on 21 a contract basis. We went ahead and put out a job 22 description. We did get in several applications. Shirley 23 felt -- and I did, too, during that time frame, that it was 24 working out well with Lisa. She's doing a great job in that 25 Performance Programs Coordinator position, and Shirley felt 840 1 that at this point she didn't want another manager in the 2 office, with all they've been through this year, that we'd 3 rather do this -- finish the computer system and then 4 re-evaluate it. 5 Do you want to add something to that, Daniel, 6 in the month you -- 7 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Yes. About a month 8 ago, you know, in one of the e-mails that I sent, it was 9 indicated that we would make available to you -- and I 10 believe we have them here -- Shirley, is that correct -- 11 copies of all of these? 12 (No verbal response) 13 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Right. We have six 14 people that we identified. And some of these have the kind 15 of credentials we were looking for. So it's not as if there 16 might not have been someone here that we could have used had 17 we wanted to proceed that way, and I think it -- you know, 18 we should have you-all clear about that, that we didn't 19 choose to recommend staying in the mode of using Lisa 20 because we couldn't find someone; it's because of the 21 explanation that was given by Robin here, that we were 22 comfortable with that and felt that worked better in the 23 office. 24 But these people will have to be notified, 25 then, after this meeting if you agree that we -- that you 841 1 don't want to pursue these top candidates that we 2 identified, and I think that our best route now is to go 3 with Lisa, but it was encouraging that there are some people 4 with some graduate genetic studies. There were people who 5 had even worked with goats -- some cashmere goat genetic 6 studies, a lot of livestock experience plus proper 7 educational background for the job. 8 MS. SAUM: Nixon. 9 MS. NIXON: As one who lobbied very hard for 10 us to continue with Lisa and her contract, I feel she's 11 ultimately qualified to do this job, and I am thrilled that 12 the Executive Committee has made this recommendation and 13 hope that the Board supports continuing with Lisa's 14 contract. 15 MS. SAUM: Considine. 16 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: It sounds like, 17 probably, most of the people, you know, are going to see it 18 that way, and I hope that you do. 19 The weakness of this approach, though, is that 20 we are not preparing ourselves with more people in the 21 office who are management skilled that could take over the 22 position if Shirley is incapacitated. You know, we have 23 created ourselves a weakness by continuing this way. 24 Nevertheless, it's -- I think it's still the 25 right way to go now. I don't think that we may want to do 842 1 this in two years. The contract that we have worked out 2 with Lisa is for two years, so we, eventually, need -- I 3 think we eventually need a second management person in that 4 office. 5 MS. SAUM: Bitter. 6 MR. BITTER: We've been almost -- well, over 7 six months without a -- well, without Jim Wilson, and I'm 8 wondering what the EC's thoughts, and, perhaps, Shirley's 9 thoughts are on possibility -- the situation that, maybe, we 10 want to consider the -- trying to find a management person 11 that has information technology background to fill a second 12 management slot and also provide us with some of what's 13 needed. 14 It's nice to say Bryan is going to do it. He, 15 obviously, plans to, you know, continue, and he's glad to 16 work for us and he'll be real happy when he gets his big 17 checks, but he has other clients. He's not there on a 18 day-to-day basis, and we have options on the website. If we 19 had someone in-house or hired someone in-house, they could 20 do the website -- nothing against Andrea Forrest. She's 21 certainly very capable and she's done a super job, but it 22 seems to me this is just an option that should be looked at, 23 and I'm wondering what has been discussed. 24 MS. SAUM: And that is what has been 25 discussed, Allen, and that's why the recommendation now was 843 1 to continue with Lisa in that job and not hire another 2 management person, because we're really not sure what they 3 need to be. 4 Once the computer system is complete, I think 5 we'll have a better understanding of what we need in-house 6 that Bryan isn't going to be doing on his contract basis 7 from home. So it seems preliminary now to hire somebody and 8 then find out, in six months, we hired the wrong skills for 9 what we really needed. So, yes, that is a reason. 10 MS. HENDRICKSON: Question. 11 MS. SAUM: Question has been called. 12 So we're voting on No. 2 from the Executive 13 Committee recommendation to enter into a new two-year 14 contract with Lisa Shepard. 15 All those in favor say "aye." 16 (All those in favor of the motion so 17 responded.) 18 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 19 (No response) 20 MS. SAUM: Any abstentions? 21 (No response) 22 MS. SAUM: Motion carried. 23 Rowe. 24 MS. ROWE: I move to change the guidebook 25 language regarding to "Performance Programs Manager" to read 844 1 "Performance Programs Coordinator." The background is that 2 would reflect current terminology, and, of course, would not 3 preclude us from changing it to the appropriate terms should 4 we change directions at a few date. 5 MS. SAUM: Seconded by Bozzo. 6 Does anybody have any discussion on that, 7 changing the title in the guidebook from "Performance 8 Programs Manager" to "Coordinator"? 9 (No response) 10 MS. SAUM: All in favor say "aye." 11 (All those in favor of the motion so 12 responded.) 13 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 14 (No response) 15 MS. SAUM: Any abstentions? 16 (No response) 17 MS. SAUM: Okay. Motion carried. 18 We're on to No. 3. And this goes back to the 19 same thing with the computer system. Obviously, Jim's death 20 put us at a loss this year for many things. One was the 21 website maintenance, which Andrea Forrest stepped up to the 22 plate and was able to do that for us for a minimal cost at 23 the end. She did it, at first, for no cost. 24 And we're talking about online registrations 25 at this point and that type of thing in the very near 845 1 future, so the Executive Committee is asking to authorize to 2 enter into contract with Andrea for website maintenance for 3 a period of one year. The contract rate is $15 an hour with 4 a maximum monthly amount of $1,000 and a maximum annual 5 amount of $8,000. 6 We did not get competitive bids for this one 7 year. Actually, Andrea is the one who wanted us to get 8 competitive bids, and, as an EC, we felt that she already is 9 maintaining the website. We don't know if this is going to 10 go past the year, because we don't know what's going to come 11 out of IM and what they're going to change to the website 12 and how it's going to be maintained. So we're recommending 13 to stay with Andrea for another year and have her maintain 14 our site. 15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Question. 16 MS. SAUM: The question has been called. 17 Does anybody have any clarification? 18 (No response) 19 MS. SAUM: Okay. All in favor say "aye." 20 (All those in favor of the motion so 21 responded.) 22 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 23 (All those in opposition to the motion so 24 responded.) 25 MS. SAUM: Goddard. 846 1 Abstentions? 2 (No response) 3 MS. SAUM: Motion passed. 4 (Interruption) 5 (Laughter) 6 MS. SAUM: They always make you proud, don't 7 they? God love them. 8 Okay. We're on to No. 4, vacation policy for 9 the Association Manager, and Kristi was pointing out a typo 10 on my fault. 11 "Manager may carry over 40 hours of vacation 12 time every year. They may be paid out up to an additional 13 40 hours of vacation time every year, and the rest of the 14 vacation time must be either used or forfeited." 15 Just the back -- this policy is only for the 16 Association Manager. It does not affect the other employees 17 in the office. And we're asking for this because Shirley 18 gets 16 days of vacation at this point, and, in the past, 19 it's been difficult for the manager to use those. Number 20 one, right now, she's the only manager in the office. She 21 already attends the National Show, the Annual Meeting and 22 then the National Pedigree Livestock Association Meeting. 23 So she's already gone from the office three weeks out of the 24 year. She used just over a week this year. Am I right? 25 MS. McKENZIE: Two. 847 1 MS. SAUM: She used two weeks. 2 (Applause) 3 (Laughter) 4 MS. SAUM: We're getting her there. 5 We want to have options for her, and this is 6 similar to what's done in other businesses. So they are 7 asked to take vacation time because they need it, but the 8 option is there, because of what's going on in the office or 9 the Association and she can't get away, but she can receive 10 some of those funding. 11 Any discussion? 12 Bitter. 13 MR. BITTER: How much vacation does she earn 14 per year? 15 MS. SAUM: 16 days. Is that right, Shirley? 16 (No verbal response) 17 MS. SAUM: So three weeks and one day. 18 Altheide. 19 MR. ALTHEIDE: Yeah. Just a quick question. 20 "Carry over 40 hours," is that from the total accrued in 21 that year? I mean, can she carry over 40 hours from one 22 year, 40 hours over -- 23 MS. SAUM: No. 40 hours. That's it. 24 Shirley's anniversary is the beginning of 25 January, so it's actually pretty clean on when it is. So, 848 1 it's 40 hours in January is what she can have in her bank. 2 The rest, she can be either paid out for or has to lose. 3 Bitter. 4 MR. BITTER: Okay. The way this is worded -- 5 and I'm sorry I have to ask this question. It's 40 hours 6 she can carry over from year to year every year, or -- it's 7 not 40, and she can accumulate to 80 after the second year 8 and 120 the third year? 9 MS. SAUM: Correct. She can only carry over 10 40 hours. 11 MR. BITTER: She can only carry 40 hours over 12 after December 31st? 13 MS. SAUM: Correct. 14 MR. BITTER: Okay. 15 MS. SAUM: Any more questions or 16 clarification? 17 (No response) 18 MS. SAUM: Okay. The vacation policy for the 19 manager, all in favor say "aye." 20 (All those in favor of the motion so 21 responded.) 22 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 23 (No response) 24 MS. SAUM: Any abstentions? 25 (No response) 849 1 MS. SAUM: Okay. Motion passed. 2 Okay. The last one on this page. This is to 3 deal with the amount of vacation time that Shirley has in 4 her bank right now because of lack of a consistent 5 secretary/treasurer that we've had over the last several 6 years and EC's requesting managers not to use their vacation 7 time. 8 We're recommending a payout of the Association 9 Manager's current vacation bank of 398 hours. Half of -- 10 $4,783.65, which is half of it, would be paid out before 11 December 31st, 2004. And then the same amount would be paid 12 out after January 1, 2005. That's just to put half of it on 13 each budget year. 14 The vacation bank accumulated for the 15 Association Manager is a result of prior Executive 16 Committees requesting managers not to use vacation time 17 during numerous changes in secretary/treasurers. 18 When Jim Wilson died -- I'm sure you-all are 19 aware. You got that in your updates -- he also had a 20 significant bank of vacation time that we ended up paying 21 out to his estate. This way, it's done now and we're not in 22 a position some year that we would have to do that again. 23 Just for clarification on that figure, that's 24 with carrying over 40 hours, January 1. 25 Gustafson. 850 1 MS. GUSTAFSON: Prior to what we've just voted 2 on, what was the official vacation policy as far as 3 carryover or payout, this type of fashion? 4 MS. SAUM: She can carry over 40 hours. 5 MS. GUSTAFSON: Prior to what we just voted on 6 that covers these 398 hours, those were carried under -- 7 forward under what policy? 8 MS. SAUM: They were carried forward under 9 what policy? There's no formal policy on that. They've 10 been kept track of because the ECs have asked them not to 11 use that vacation time; specifically, her and Jim. 12 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Well, let's just -- I 13 want to make sure we clarify policy. The handbook is real 14 clear, use it or lose it. However, during these changes, 15 the Executive Committee requested the managers -- the two 16 managers during that period of time not to take vacation, 17 and so it did not forfeit at the Executive Committee's 18 request, and those have been accumulated and that's what's 19 being brought to you. But the policy for the rest of the 20 staff, which has been enforced, is that you need to use your 21 vacation time during that year. 22 Because of the problems encountered, that's 23 why we did just ask and the Board passed No. 4, and what you 24 have before you with the explanation, it's been a number of 25 years now that it has been accumulating at EC request. 851 1 MS. SAUM: Does that make it clear -- okay. I 2 just want to make sure. 3 Does anybody else have any questions or 4 comments about that? 5 (No response) 6 MS. SAUM: All in favor of the recommended 7 payout to the Association Manager for vacation time please 8 signify by saying "aye." 9 (All those in favor of the motion so 10 responded.) 11 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 12 Gustafson. 13 Abstentions? 14 (No response) 15 MS. SAUM: No abstentions. The motion 16 carried. 17 Bitter. 18 MR. BITTER: In the future, we should arrange 19 these -- if this situation were to happen again, which it 20 may, because it's happened in the past, we should be making 21 these payouts at the end of every year. Because when we 22 wait, then we have an increase in salary situation, and it's 23 costing the Association more by waiting. If we take care of 24 it on an annual basis -- 25 MS. SAUM: You're correct. And that's why we 852 1 wanted that policy for the Association Manager, is to 2 hopefully avoid that. 3 MR. BITTER: Thank you. 4 MS. SAUM: Uh-huh. Proctor. 5 MS. PROCTOR: I have three things I'd like to 6 address. You won't miss lunch. 7 We used to get a sheet that told us all of the 8 wages and salaries paid in the ADGA office, and we haven't 9 had one for quite some time. And it's a little hard to keep 10 track of years ago. Could we have a sheet or is this 11 permissible? 12 MS. SAUM: You just want to -- you don't want 13 to know employee name? You just want a number on there and 14 what they do? 15 MS. PROCTOR: No. The -- whatever they do and 16 how much is paid for this job of what they do. We used to 17 get that all the time. 18 MS. SAUM: We did. 19 Shirley, do you have any comments on that? I 20 know there are some privacy issues. 21 MS. McKENZIE: Well, Vivian, I can appreciate 22 that you would like to know that information, but it could 23 certainly make my job harder, in that it can effect the 24 morale of the office staff, and it is information that is 25 not even available to staff as far as other staff members 853 1 and no one is aware of what another makes as far as their 2 salary. 3 MS. PROCTOR: That answers my question. We 4 can't have it. 5 (Laughter) 6 MS. PROCTOR: The other thing I would like to 7 address is, we used to have a sheet, 100 years ago, written 8 for committee expenses. This is causing problems in the 9 membership. Everyone wants to know what committees are 10 being paid, and we don't know. We want to know what 11 committees are being paid. 12 They had a basis sheet. I didn't bring it. I 13 had it with me, but I left it in the room. We need to 14 know -- the one they have is all right, but you can't really 15 tell, because it's not clear enough. It's not clearly 16 written. 17 Could we have that rewritten so we'll know 18 what to tell the membership when they want to know that 19 everybody isn't getting -- or is getting paid? 20 MS. SAUM: Phil is shaking his head. Do you 21 want to answer that, Phil, on the record for -- 22 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: A number of years ago, 23 the whole committee structure was put together and a list of 24 committees as to who received what expense and what they 25 qualified, and there has -- I agree with you, Vivian, there 854 1 has been changes made during that period of time to some of 2 them as the change in the Association is made. 3 So we can go ahead and get that updated and 4 get it out to directors. Give us -- you know, right when we 5 get back home a little bit of time, but let's say within the 6 next 30 to 60 days we'll get it updated. 7 MS. PROCTOR: I'm not requesting we know the 8 names, just what -- 9 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Right. The committee 10 and what -- which committees qualify for what payments. 11 MS. PROCTOR: It's not clear what's paid at 12 the Annual Meeting, or if, like, the TC, they have a 13 different pay at the Annual Meeting than they would have if 14 they have a special TC somewhere, and we don't know that. 15 Thank you. 16 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Okay. 17 MS. PROCTOR: One other question. 18 MS. SAUM: Continue. 19 MS. PROCTOR: My last question is, why -- on 20 what basis is the Reports of Awards for other shows than one 21 you might go to, why is this not available to the members? 22 MS. SAUM: I'm sorry, Vivian. Say that again. 23 I was writing down the last thing you said. 24 MS. PROCTOR: Why is not the ROA for any show 25 available to the members, for fee or for free? 855 1 MS. SAUM: Why don't you make a motion that 2 you'd like to have that -- or however you'd like it. 3 MS. PROCTOR: Well, I don't know if everybody 4 understands that or not. 5 But suppose you want to know what a show did. 6 There's nothing secret on the Report of Awards. There's no 7 invasion of privacy. It's just a report. If you're going 8 to go to the -- if you're going to enter the thing for the 9 year -- what -- American Program, Delaval -- whatever that 10 is -- if you want to enter that, you need this information 11 on shows you've been to, which you may not have, how many 12 were in the class, but I don't -- there's nothing secret on 13 it, so why can't anyone write in and get a Report of Awards 14 for any show in the country? 15 So if -- I'll make a motion that anybody -- is 16 available to anybody -- for fee or for free, whichever you 17 want to choose to do, my motion is that it's available. 18 MS. SAUM: Is there a second to that? 19 Altheide. 20 Any discussion? 21 Rowe. 22 MS. ROWE: Well, if you should choose to do 23 that, I definitely recommend it be for a fee, because we 24 have costs associated with providing that information. 25 MS. SAUM: $1 a page. 856 1 (Laughter) 2 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 3 MR. ALTHEIDE: Well, we just dealt with the 4 issue of whether or not a member voted. Clearly, if a list 5 of those who voted in the election, if that's considered a 6 business record, surely a Report of Awards would also be a 7 business record of the Association, and, therefore, have to 8 be released for $1 a page. 9 (Laughter) 10 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 11 MS. STRICKLAND: To members. 12 MS. SAUM: Gustafson. 13 MS. GUSTAFSON: I would just like to ask 14 Shirley how this is going to impact the office, if this is 15 going to really complicate you-all's lives and what time 16 frame would be allowed prior to receiving the Report of 17 Awards before it could be released. 18 MS. SAUM: Do we have any more discussion on 19 the release of the Report of Awards upon request to a member 20 for $1 a page? 21 Bitter. 22 MS. GUSTAFSON: Shirley has not answered my 23 question. 24 MS. SAUM: Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I jumped 25 ahead. 857 1 MS. McKENZIE: I'm sorry. I missed your 2 question, Marsha. 3 MS. GUSTAFSON: I was requesting information 4 from you as far as how this would impact the office and what 5 would be the time frame from the receipt of the Report of 6 Awards until the time that the office would have the 7 capacity to release it? Because I know these things come in 8 in order, and if one's held up in mail -- or whatever. 9 There needs to be a time frame for you-all so there can't 10 be: I show today. Give you ten days and I want it now. 11 I'm trying to protect you-all. 12 MS. McKENZIE: Well, certainly there is a 13 period of time there where we are receiving the report, and 14 that is not always the same length of time. So you might 15 want to set 30, 60 days. 16 MS. GUSTAFSON: That's what I'm asking you, 17 "What time frame would the office require or like?" 18 MS. McKENZIE: I -- 19 MS. SAUM: Do we -- go ahead, Shirley. I'm 20 sorry. 21 MS. McKENZIE: I think 60 days. 22 MS. SAUM: Do you really feel you need to put 23 a time frame? I think that if you make a request of the 24 office staff, they're going to be pretty prompt in getting 25 it out. Don't you, Vivian? 858 1 MS. PROCTOR: No problem with them sending it 2 out. Nobody needs it immediately. 3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Question. 4 MS. SAUM: Okay. The question has been 5 called. The motion is before you by Proctor to make 6 available the Report of Award, upon request, to any member 7 for a fee of $1 a page. 8 Bitter. 9 MR. BITTER: Thank you. 10 MS. SAUM: You're welcome. 11 MR. BITTER: I think we should get more for a 12 copy of the -- what would be the first page now, the large 13 page, because that's what we're talking about, copying the 14 actual Report of Awards. Right? 15 MS. SAUM: She puts it on a little -- one 16 piece of paper, that whole report of awards. She shrinks it 17 right down there. Believe me. 18 It's still readable. I understand your 19 concern that -- 20 MR. BITTER: I'll pass. Question. Question. 21 MS. SAUM: Okay. And it's $1 a page, so if it 22 ends up being more than one page with the addendum, she's 23 got to pay $2. 24 (Simultaneous discussion) 25 MS. SAUM: All those in favor -- we're going 859 1 to have two this year. 2 All in favor say "aye." 3 (All those in favor of the motion so 4 responded.) 5 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." Strickland is a 6 "no." 7 You're not a "no"? 8 (No verbal response) 9 MS. SAUM: She's a "yes." There's no "no" 10 votes. 11 Any abstentions? 12 (No response) 13 MS. SAUM: Okay. Motion passed. 14 Vivian, is that -- did you have one more? 15 MS. PROCTOR: No. 16 MS. SAUM: That was it. 17 Okay. Strickland. 18 MS. STRICKLAND: If she shrinks it down to one 19 page, I think we should think about the magnifying lens 20 sales as a -- 21 MS. SAUM: It's actually readable. It is. 22 MS. STRICKLAND: -- fundraising event. 23 MS. SAUM: If it's not, I'm sure Vivian will 24 let them know. Won't you? 25 MS. PROCTOR: Yeah. 860 1 MS. SAUM: There you go. She won't be shy. I 2 promise you. 3 Daubert. 4 MR. DAUBERT: I move that the Executive 5 Committee prepare a motions list at the end of the Board of 6 Directors meeting, and on that motions list, an action 7 person be listed and that motions list come back before us 8 the next year to see if all actions have been taken or 9 explain why they have not. 10 MS. SAUM: Campbell is stating that it is 11 provided on the website. 12 You'll get a list of motions tomorrow at the 13 General Membership Meeting. That will be put together 14 between tonight and tomorrow. 15 MS. CAMPBELL: I have the last 15 years if you 16 need them. 17 MS. SAUM: Linda has the last 15 years. 18 MR. DAUBERT: I have asked for that list for 19 the last six years. 20 MS. SAUM: $1 a page. 21 (Laughter) 22 (Applause) 23 MR. DAUBERT: I'll pay $2 a page. 24 MS. SAUM: Linda, get to the copy machine. 25 (Laughter) 861 1 MR. DAUBERT: I don't think it's appropriate 2 to be on the website. If I've asked for it and they won't 3 send it to me, I don't understand that. 4 MS. SAUM: It's in the minutes. It's in the 5 back of the minutes, isn't it? At the back, there's a list 6 of the motions, and it's referred to a committee; it says 7 so. 8 You didn't read your minutes, Dave. 9 (Laughter) 10 (Simultaneous discussion) 11 MS. SAUM: Dean. Patti Dean. 12 MS. DEAN: This is regarding comments Daniel 13 made earlier about the applicants and the Performance 14 Programs Coordinator. And speaking as a member of last 15 year's Executive Committee, I'm sure that Daniel didn't 16 intend to create the impression that we don't certainly 17 appreciate everything that Lisa has done and is doing and 18 will be doing, but rather that he intended to mention the 19 fact that we may need to look at an additional manager. 20 I just -- I don't want to go away giving Lisa 21 or the Board or the membership who read the minutes the idea 22 that her position isn't appreciated and that we have every 23 confidence that she's doing a good job. 24 MS. SAUM: Thank you, Patti. 25 (Applause) 862 1 MS. ROWE: And, further, I actually was kind 2 of disappointed in, sort of, the inference, potentially, 3 that this would be terminated in two years. I mean, that 4 was sort of what I gathered. 5 MS. SAUM: Oh. I'm sorry. That wasn't meant 6 to be inferred. 7 MS. ROWE: You know, I just wanted some 8 clarification and some support that the EC was looking at 9 a really -- you know, potentially a long-range sort of 10 consideration that, you know, is part of our plan. 11 MS. SAUM: I think Lisa is actually the one 12 who thought of the two years. Isn't it? The suggestion of 13 the two-year -- because Lisa doesn't know what other 14 contracts she'll have in two years either. So that was an 15 easy way, I think, for both sides, but, no, it's not being 16 looked at as, at the end of two years, what we're going to 17 do. No. 18 Lisa. 19 MS. SHEPARD: Right. I'd prefer the two years 20 for some consistency in the position so that we have someone 21 identified in the office that they can count on is not going 22 to be gone in six months, but that also provided time for 23 the Association, as a member, to look at every option that 24 we would have. 25 MS. SAUM: Just a follow-up on that 863 1 discussion, just so you know, we're checking in and we know 2 that our phone system is capable of this, is that, when you 3 now in the future -- because Lisa is going to have a 4 two-year contract and be available for those two years, if 5 you call the ADGA office and you need to speak with her, 6 they will just transfer you to her in California. You won't 7 know that, but -- it will just be a button on the phone. 8 "You want to speak to Lisa Shepard? Yes, you may. Here you 9 are." 10 So Phil has estimated that cost between 6- and 11 $800, and that's in the budget, but he'd be more comfortable 12 moving it to $1,000. 13 His company does that, and I think, most of 14 us, if you call anybody that's a customer service thing, 15 you're probably not talking to anybody in the United States. 16 MS. SHEPARD: I'll stay in the United States. 17 MS. SAUM: But she's going to stay in the 18 United States. She's promised us. 19 Okay. Any other comments at this time? 20 (No response) 21 MS. SAUM: The next item of business -- 22 there's no label on the top of the page. You have it in 23 front of you -- is regarding the website. 24 "Noah Goddard must arrange to have the website 25 'dairygoatcheckregister.com' taken down and all files 864 1 removed immediately. When all identifying numbers and 2 potentially damaging information is removed, Director 3 Goddard may make the check register available to ADGA 4 members only. Non-members are not entitled to receive this 5 information." 6 We're asking you to endorse that. 7 Bitter. 8 MR. BITTER: I'd prefer a date and possibly a 9 time instead of "immediately." 10 MS. SAUM: Do you have a suggestion? 11 MR. BITTER: Noon, October 29th, 2004. 12 MS. SAUM: Is that acceptable to the EC? 13 (Simultaneous discussion) 14 MS. SAUM: What's the date today? October 15 29th. 16 Rucker. 17 MR. RUCKER: I have a little bit of a problem 18 making the check register in its current form available to 19 members. It's still going to have the credit card 20 information and -- 21 (Simultaneous discussion) 22 Mr. Rucker: With all the -- okay. Nevermind. 23 MS. SAUM: Okay. Altheide. 24 MR. ALTHEIDE: A point added -- minor thing. 25 What was posted on the website was transactions of account 865 1 by detail. This says "check register." They're two 2 separate items. 3 MS. SAUM: Cassette. 4 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: I think that the 5 clarification, George, is, that is the title of the website, 6 and that's what we're referring to, is have that title -- 7 what is posted is not the same title as the website -- take 8 that down. And when they're referring to "information," 9 it's information on that website, which is the -- and if you 10 want to make that clearer, damaging information, if you want 11 to talk about that, that refers to the Transaction Detail by 12 Account. And if you would like -- it's not the first 13 statement. It's the second one. "When all identifying 14 numbers and potentially damaging information is removed from 15 the Transaction Detail by Account," comma, if that would be 16 clearer, I think the EC would accept that. 17 MR. ALTHEIDE: Well, I think we also need to 18 look at the check register, because it also contains even 19 more information or different information that could be 20 equally as damaging. 21 MS. SAUM: I think -- okay. Two -- that's a 22 different issue, and I understand what you're saying, but I 23 think we covered that in the confidentiality statement. 24 So -- and the EC has all shook their heads 25 "yes" on inserting "information is removed from Transactions 866 1 by Detail of Account," comma, and then on with the "Director 2 Goddard." Okay? 3 Berry. 4 MS. BERRY: Okay. I just want to be perfectly 5 clear that the action here would not protect anybody from 6 liability for what has already occurred. 7 MS. SAUM: Correct. 8 Gustafson. 9 MS. GUSTAFSON: I would like to address -- it 10 says that he may release, available to members only. By 11 what method? 12 Again, if he releases this over the Internet 13 again, it can go, "woosh," non-members everything. I would 14 like to see this release done in hard copy only. 15 MS. SAUM: That would have to be a motion for 16 you. I'm not sure that we can control that. It would have 17 to be a member website only if it was on the Internet. It 18 couldn't just be out on the Internet in the future if we 19 pass this. 20 Rucker. 21 MR. RUCKER: I understand the concern, but 22 that doesn't prevent someone that would be provided this 23 information from then providing it on to a non-member, so -- 24 we need to be careful, but I think we can be overcareful, 25 too. 867 1 MS. SAUM: And I understand what you're 2 saying. I think if we go back to the confidentiality 3 statement that you released, "Any dissemination of this 4 information is at the director's own risk," we're saying, 5 you can -- you may give it out, but it's at your own risk. 6 Considine. 7 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: It wasn't discussed 8 during the time that you accepted that confidentiality 9 statement, but if you remember the one that was on the 10 Transactions by Detail or look back at it, you will see that 11 this is different. This statement is clearer as far as "the 12 director must take responsibility for what they've done." 13 So the one you passed isn't the same, but we believe it's 14 more complete. 15 MS. SAUM: And just to follow-up, Daniel -- 16 this started before the election and everything and Daniel 17 has really been the one talking to Mr. Dalton and getting 18 faxes back and forth. This statement has been approved by 19 him. He is aware of this. 20 Altheide. 21 MR. ALTHEIDE: Would acceptance of this 22 statement prevent a member from taking any action against 23 Mr. Goddard? 24 MS. SAUM: I don't believe so. 25 Considine. 868 1 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Right. Nothing here in 2 this action deals with any kind of discipline or any kind of 3 legal action at all. What we had been trying to do is to 4 have the two attorneys to work out an understanding. That 5 part of the understanding, we've accepted, but the rest of 6 what we wanted, we could not get between the attorneys, but 7 we are -- we did agree that there would be no disciplinary 8 action brought at this time. If there would be any, it 9 would be done through channels at a later date. 10 MS. SAUM: Allen, I want to go back to you for 11 a second. You said 12, noon. Can you give me a time zone? 12 MR. BITTER: Yeah. How about we go with 5:00 13 p.m., Eastern/Standard time. 14 MS. SAUM: 5:00 p.m., Eastern/Standard time. 15 Thank you. 16 Rucker. 17 MR. RUCKER: I think Daniel just addressed it, 18 but I just want to make that accepting this -- George had 19 mentioned, you know, a member pursuing action. This does 20 not prevent the Association from taking any disciplinary 21 action that they may see necessary? 22 MS. SAUM: Correct. All we're doing is 23 dealing with the website, not anything else. 24 Senn. 25 MS. SENN: My question has to do -- and many 869 1 people are, I'm sure, very much more computer savvy or 2 website savvy than I am, but would this include -- or what 3 is the intent to have the website -- specifically, it states 4 during -- "at register.com taken down and all the files 5 removed immediately." This does not preclude that from 6 having been transferred to another website by this statement 7 that it is right now. So would it be more appropriate that 8 any of that information specifically could not be 9 transferred also? 10 MS. SAUM: The confidentiality statement 11 should take care of that now, because the Board has already 12 passed that. 13 Does that make sense? 14 Rucker. 15 MR. RUCKER: I'm not a super techno nerd, so 16 maybe someone else can address it. I know there is a way -- 17 because my son does it all the time, to go to websites and 18 get like what they look like on X day. Is there a way to 19 prevent that information? 20 MS. CAMPBELL: No. 21 MR. RUCKER: So this information, even if 22 taken down today, could be on -- could be still obtained? 23 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 24 MS. CAMPBELL: That's cashing, where it's 25 simply kept -- it can be on anyone's temporary Internet 870 1 files that they maintain on their own computer. Google and 2 all the search engines do cash that information. So it will 3 be available -- the period of time that it's dumped, it may 4 be 30 days. It could be that period of time where you'll 5 still find that information and cash material. 6 MS. SAUM: Linda is more computer savvy than I 7 am. 8 Is there any more discussion on this action? 9 (No response) 10 MS. SAUM: Do you want me to read it one last 11 time so we're all set or are we set? 12 We're set? 13 (Simultaneous responses) 14 MS. SAUM: Read it. Okay. "Noah Goddard must 15 arrange to have the website 'diarygoatcheckregister.com' 16 taken down today, October 29th, 2004, by 5:00 p.m. 17 Eastern/Standard time and all files removed immediately. 18 When all identifying numbers and potentially damaging 19 information is removed, Director Goddard may make the check 20 register available to ADGA members only. Non-members are 21 not entitled to receive this information." 22 Petersen. 23 MS. PETERSEN: When you read it back, did you 24 read back where you added in the Transaction by Detail of 25 Account? 871 1 MS. SAUM: I didn't. "When all identifying 2 numbers and potentially damaging information is removed from 3 the Transactions by Detail, Director Goddard" -- okay. 4 All right. All in favor of this action, 5 please say "aye." 6 (All those in favor of the motion so 7 responded.) 8 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 9 (No response) 10 MS. SAUM: Abstentions? 11 Goddard. 12 Okay. I think we're on to Finance. 13 (Simultaneous discussion) 14 MS. SAUM: Oh. I'm sorry. Yes. I see these 15 things (indicating). Ten-minute break. 16 (Recess: 9:32 a.m. to 9:57 a.m.) 17 MS. SAUM: Welcome back and we'll finish up. 18 We have some things that we need to do. We need to approve 19 our final budget. This is the funnest part of the whole 20 meeting. 21 Okay. Just -- first thing is, I need to ask 22 Vivian, I'm assuming it's okay that you'll collect the 23 proxies for us again this year. 24 (No verbal response) 25 MS. SAUM: Okay. I didn't catch her in the 872 1 hall. So if you have proxy votes, please turn them over to 2 Vivian. 3 Just for information, Annette Maze had to 4 leave the meeting. She had a plane to catch, and she needed 5 to go ahead and go. 6 And then now we'll turn it over to Phil and 7 we'll do our final finance report. And then after that, 8 Daniel has one new thing -- a new business of things he's 9 passing out to you, and then we'll accept any other new 10 business. 11 Phil. 12 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Okay. Now it's time to 13 roll up our sleeves. Let's get to work on the finance 14 stuff. 15 Daniel said to me, "You're taking your jacket 16 off. You're ready to work." "Yes." Isn't this the best 17 part? 18 (Laughter) 19 (Simultaneous responses) 20 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Better. 21 What I'd like you to do first is turn to the 22 Year-End Finance Committee Report. There are two items 23 there for Board action which I'd like to deal with first. 24 They are, "1. Establish a minimum capitalization policy of 25 $500 dollars as recommended by the outside auditor, 873 1 Mr. Bobby Martin, CPA." The rationale for that is, 2 "Equipment items should be treated consistently with small 3 items expensed as supplies." 4 If you look at our depreciation schedule, 5 we've got one item in there for $109 being depreciated over 6 ten years. It's probably not realistic. 7 You know, we don't have a policy. This Board 8 has never set a capitalization policy. This was the 9 recommendation; Finance Committee agreed to it and is 10 bringing it before you. 11 Questions? 12 (No response) 13 MS. SAUM: Okay. Establish the minimum 14 capitalization policy, all those in favor say "aye." 15 (All those in favor of the motion so 16 responded.) 17 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 18 (No response) 19 MS. SAUM: Abstentions? 20 (No response) 21 MS. SAUM: Motion carried. 22 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: The second one is 23 "Establish a policy to utilize straight-line depreciation 24 for all purchases consistent with Not-For-Profit Association 25 as recommended by the outside auditor." Rationale behind 874 1 this is, "Consistent treatment for fixed asset depreciation 2 would eliminate the multitude" -- and I'm not stretching the 3 term there -- multitude of depreciations that we've used 4 over the years. 5 Depending on -- we've been through a number of 6 CPAs. They treat things a little differently. Some is 7 double-decline in balance. Some is accelerated. Some is 8 straight-lined. Some are, you know, mid-month. We just 9 need to be consistent. 10 It's before you, are there questions? 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Question. 12 MS. SAUM: The question has been called on the 13 second one to establish a policy to utilize straight-line 14 depreciation. 15 All in favor say "aye." 16 (All those in favor of the motion so 17 responded.) 18 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 19 (No response) 20 MS. SAUM: Any abstentions? 21 (No response) 22 MS. SAUM: Motion carried. 23 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Okay. Next, I'd like 24 you to turn to the one that says "Finance Committee Year End 25 Report Addendum." Three are three items there to be voted 875 1 on. 2 The first one, which is 1A, states, "Recommend 3 salary increases for the ADGA staff in the amount of 3 4 percent to 6 percent with a maximum cap of $10,000." That's 5 maximum, total, amongst all employees. "The Association 6 Manager, based on performance and/or productivity would 7 determine the specific amount for each employee within the 8 range." 9 MS. SAUM: Any discussion on that? 10 (No response) 11 MS. SAUM: None? 12 (No response) 13 MS. SAUM: Okay. All in favor of the 14 recommended salary increases, please say "aye." 15 (All those in favor of the motion so 16 responded.) 17 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 18 (All those in opposition to the motion so 19 responded.) 20 MS. SAUM: Gustafson is a "no." 21 Any abstentions? 22 (No response) 23 MS. SAUM: Motion passed. 24 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Item 2A, "Recommend 25 increasing the fee for transfers completed after 120 days of 876 1 sale to $5.00. The current rate of $3.50 would remain in 2 place for transfers made within 120 days. This change in 3 fee schedule would take effect April 1st, 2005." 4 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 5 MS. STRICKLAND: Can you give me the rationale 6 behind the 120 days versus 90 or 60? 7 MR. CASSETTE: Yeah. That was -- in 8 committee -- I'll give you mine, and then if another Finance 9 Committee member wants to deal, but we originally -- I asked 10 the same question, "Why are we not doing 90 days?" 11 The thought process there was to wait -- that 12 is -- a four-month period is a typical, very active show 13 schedule for most people. So that you wouldn't be forcing 14 them to transfer and penalizing them, we felt that four 15 months was a reasonable time. Any shorter than that might 16 either conflict with some of the show schedule, and that was 17 really the thought process. And any shorter might put us 18 into a small season, and they didn't want to do it. So 120 19 was what was come up with. 20 I don't know if there's another committee 21 member that would like to add anything. 22 MS. SAUM: Any more discussion on the increase 23 in transfer fees if you wait after 120 days? 24 Rucker. 25 MR. RUCKER: I'm just real uncomfortable doing 877 1 something that we got on Wednesday morning. We haven't had 2 a chance to talk to our constituents. I understand the 3 budget doesn't look good, but we had to know it didn't look 4 good -- I mean, I wasn't on the Board last year, so I didn't 5 get a lot of the information before Wednesday morning, and I 6 just -- I have a real tough time supporting this. 7 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 8 MS. CAMPBELL: I'm in support of this for 9 several reasons. One, I think it will encourage people to 10 process transfers more promptly than we've seen sometimes in 11 the past. And what that does, if we're looking a little 12 further ahead into animal identification, it helps us have a 13 more accurate record of the ownership of that animal. So 14 that's one reason to do this. 15 And by allowing them the 120 days, we've given 16 the member that opportunity to save that increase. So I 17 feel comfortable that we're financially responsible by 18 making it the -- you know, giving them 120 days with plenty 19 of time, really, I think -- adequate time to maintain the 20 current price. 21 MS. SAUM: Hendrickson. 22 MS. HENDRICKSON: As a breeder who has sold 23 many animals, the following year when I get my LAE page that 24 says "currently owned list" and find 20 on there that were 25 sold the year before that didn't get transferred, I kind of 878 1 think maybe a little bit of an incentive to move them along 2 is in order. And these -- I mean, animals that were sold as 3 adults that didn't get transferred. So I think this -- 4 maybe this may help. 5 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 6 MS. STRICKLAND: I would speak in favor of 7 this for similar reasons. There's a bigger picture than 8 just that members haven't been informed, because they 9 couldn't have been, that a fee was being increased, but 10 those of you who have been here long enough would remember a 11 few years ago where there was actually a complaint against 12 the judge because the animal that she put champion was in 13 her name because the transfer had never been made officially 14 in the office. 15 MS. SAUM: And just to address some of your 16 concerns, too, Tom, it doesn't take effect until April the 17 1st. So the membership is going to have time. And if they 18 have transfers sitting out there they haven't done yet, that 19 they can go ahead and do it. And I don't think the intent 20 of the EC was to use this as a fundraising or to -- we 21 didn't -- add more money to our budget. It was more to get 22 people to transfer their animals. We're not looking for 23 more money. We're looking for them to get their animal 24 transferred. 25 Does anybody else want to speak in opposition? 879 1 (No response) 2 MS. SAUM: Okay. So before you is the 3 recommended increase for fee for transfers completed after 4 120 days of sale to $5. The current rate of $3.50 would 5 remain in place for transfers within the 120 days, and the 6 change in the fee schedule would take effect April 1st, 7 2005. 8 All those in favor say "aye." 9 (All those in favor of the motion so 10 responded.) 11 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 12 (All those in opposition to the motion so 13 responded.) 14 MS. SAUM: "No" votes. Rucker, Petersen. 15 Abstentions? 16 (No response) 17 MS. SAUM: No abstentions. Motion passed. 18 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Item 3A, "Recommend an 19 increase of $1.00 in every category of registration fees, 20 including the additional $1.00 during rush season. This 21 rate increase would take effect April 1st, 2005." 22 MS. SAUM: Gustafson. 23 MS. GUSTAFSON: I have a two-part question. 24 Has the Finance Committee looked at methods or means or 25 areas in which the current budget can be cut so that we do 880 1 not have to do this? The second part of the question is: 2 With the "implamation" -- you know what I'm trying to say -- 3 (Simultaneous discussion) 4 MS. GUSTAFSON: Yes. That word -- when it 5 starts, yes, the new computer system, will the rush fee be 6 needed because it's a faster and better system? 7 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Let me address the first 8 part of your question as far as looking at places to save. 9 Yes, we have, but we are not confident that we can get all 10 of that in place in the coming year. We've looked at the 11 issue, and it has been discussed and come up in other 12 reports. For instance, New and Events and sending that to 13 every member and the cost of that and couldn't that be done 14 electronically, and that's one of the items that we've 15 looked at in dealing with the coming year. But we're not 16 comfortable at this time to say that we can -- you know, 17 that that $20,000 plus expense for News and Events, that we 18 can get that accomplished this year. There's one item. 19 Second is that we have taken a look at the 20 primary areas of our programs, whether that be Linear 21 Appraisal or DHI -- you know, those kind of -- you know, 22 whether it's dealing with contracts for DNA, those issues, a 23 lot of those, the contractual, we're very concerned if we 24 attempt to make any changes. 25 We have challenged the Chair. Allen's 881 1 brought, from Linear Appraisal, an attempt to, perhaps, do 2 away with the training session, keep the refresher and do 3 some other items that may help in the future, but 4 specifically, Marsha, we've gone through the items and said, 5 "Here's a number that we can work on." 6 We've looked at and have challenged IM 7 Committee, and that's why the printer was approved. I mean, 8 our cost of printing and our cost of purchasing of supplies 9 and forms is tremendous, and we're asking them to use 10 current technology to significantly reduce it. 11 We believe that we will have those benefits, 12 but we're not convinced at this time that we can put any of 13 those into the budget. 14 Also, we have brought in the National Show 15 numbers into the budget that are -- basically break even. I 16 mean, we've been very lucky; the last couple of years, it's 17 made money, but we are uncomfortable to book that into our 18 budget. 19 Like with Annual Meeting, we've said, "Here's 20 the cost." They've been over that, but can you bank on 21 them? 22 We are bringing a conservative number forward. 23 We have identified expenses. We're working on them, but 24 nothing at this point that we are comfortable enough to put 25 it in the budget to say that it will definitely be 882 1 accomplished during 2005. 2 Daniel is going to handle -- Daniel Considine 3 will answer the second part of the question. 4 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: I think that the 5 inference was that with the new system that we are 6 developing, the ROSS Registration System, that we would, 7 then, have a faster processing, and I don't know that that 8 -- that I have ever gotten that impression. I mean, we 9 didn't go to this system because we had a problem with time. 10 We had other problems. 11 The data entry would be, roughly, the same, 12 and, yes, he's, you know, looked at what the staff is asking 13 for what -- the order of the things on the screen and he's 14 trying to make it as easy as possible, but I think it's a 15 mistake to believe that there will be a significant 16 reduction in staff time per entry. I don't think that 17 happens. 18 MS. SAUM: Proctor. 19 MS. PROCTOR: I personally feel that this is 20 overdue. Everything in the world has gone up but the ADGA 21 rates. However, I would not like to surprise the membership 22 with this coming off like this. 23 Had they been warned slightly, which I did not 24 do because I didn't see it coming, I'd be more comfortable. 25 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: April 1st is when it's 883 1 effective. 2 MS. PROCTOR: I know, but that's not time to 3 stop it coming in. I would rather do this -- I would rather 4 vote for it with the support of the membership, and I feel 5 there are those members out there that realize they're 6 getting a real bargain at this price and would approve $1 7 raise, but I'd rather do it with their approval than 8 without. 9 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 10 MR. ALTHEIDE: I'd just like to remind the 11 Board that we did discuss and vote down a fee increase last 12 year. After that, I returned from Convention and tried to 13 get the word out to the district to be aware that we were 14 having problems meeting the costs on registration and they 15 should look for a fee increase. 16 So I think the membership should have been 17 warned by a number of directors. If they read the minutes, 18 it should have appeared to them that we did discuss a fee 19 increase last year. We did not vote it -- we voted it down 20 specifically because it came up right at Finance. This is 21 the second year we've brought -- a fee increase for 22 registrations has come forward to the Board, so they have 23 had a chance. 24 MS. SAUM: Daubert. 25 MR. DAUBERT: For clarification, could we look 884 1 on Page 115 of the guidebook? We're talking about $1 2 increase for the first 12 lines. That would include the 3 special handling line. But that is the categories that 4 we're talking about, those first 12 lines? 5 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Correct. 6 MS. SAUM: Petersen was next. 7 MS. PETERSEN: I'm actually halfway in favor 8 of this, because I have talked all year long to people about 9 the rate increase potential, and the only problem they've 10 had has been -- well, two did not want it at all. Two were 11 okay with either way. And 20-some odd said they were fine 12 with everything raising across the board, but they thought 13 it was unfair because they could not register their kids in 14 utero, and if they weren't born yet, how could they get the 15 discount? 16 (Brief Pause) 17 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Okay. But before I do 18 that -- I'll answer that, but before that, I have to correct 19 the last statement and the one that Dave brought up. He 20 went down too many lines. It's the first nine lines. It's 21 the one that's through "AGS/CGS Registration." It's the 22 ones that are -- the postmarked periods, does and bucks, 23 both for members and nonmembers and ages, and then through 24 AGS/CGS Registration. It was not intended to deal with 25 duplicates or revisions. Those issues were not intended. 885 1 So when I quickly confirmed and said correct, I misspoke. 2 So there's that. 3 Back to Laurie's issue. And I understand the 4 concern. The concern of our Association is the fact that we 5 are seasonal breeder -- you know, the dairy goats, the 6 majority, are seasonal breeders, are breeding during that 7 period of time, and then they're having these kids and need 8 to register them. 9 That's exactly the problem. It isn't opposite 10 of the problem. It is the problem. The issue of equal 11 processing of work in the office is because we do have 12 seasonal breeder issues. 13 Now, I've had a couple of directors say to me 14 that it would be better stated that if we -- in this 15 proposal, under No. 3A, if we increased the fee $2 and gave 16 a discount or savings of $1 during the off season. That is 17 the same issue of money. It's stated differently. 18 As an accountant, we kind of go, "What are 19 they" -- "I don't know what the point is." I mean, it's 20 straightforward, what we're doing, but if you-all prefer to 21 vote for it, the fact that you're increasing it $2 and then 22 discounting it $1 during the off-season, I have no problem 23 stating it that way. It is the same effect on our budget. 24 It's the same effect to the membership. But if the savings 25 -- and my general line with savings is, "Please use savings 886 1 to invest with old age and retirement in mind." 2 That's great. I mean, I don't have a problem. 3 I just don't want the Board to walk away saying, you know, 4 we did something different. It is the same effect on the 5 budget, and it is the same $30,000 that's been booked in 6 there. 7 Robin. 8 MS. SAUM: Bitter was next, and then 9 Hendrickson. 10 MR. BITTER: The members that contacted me 11 really want to be able to register their young kids at the 12 base rate, and I realize that they are part of the rush 13 season, but we also register a lot of animals that are over 14 a year old during rush season and I really think we ought to 15 give a break to -- a base fee to young kids and have a 16 higher -- have the higher fees for animals that are over a 17 year that could be registered at a different time of the 18 year at a lower rate. So encourage a smoother flow of 19 registrations into the office by encouraging those who wish 20 to hold their registration application -- I'm sorry. 21 (Brief Pause) 22 MR. BITTER: I've got somebody talking in my 23 ear here. What I meant was kids under six months old or 24 maybe under four months. I'm not sure if I misspoke or not, 25 but my point was that many people hold animals until they're 887 1 older than that, and they can easily be registered in the 2 off season. Why hurt the members who are registering kids, 3 which is what we want them to do? 4 We just passed the transfer thing because we 5 want the transfers in 120 days. It seems logical that we 6 want the kids registered fairly soon so that we get them 7 registered and that we're not holding registrations over a 8 year and then putting them into the rush season. 9 MS. SAUM: Hendrickson. 10 MS. HENDRICKSON: Okay. Much like -- I 11 believe it was Laurie that said it. Most of the members I 12 have talked to expect a raise in rates. They have not been 13 blind that we are losing money every year, and they do 14 expect there's going to be a raise. However, they have 15 really been offended by the "rush fee" charge, and I have 16 said to them that I felt it should have been raised year 17 round and then you get a discount. 18 And I've also said that I thought that we have 19 to consider that any money that is extra over what it costs 20 actually is subsidizing a few of the other programs that 21 benefit all of us like LA and DHIR that are not paying their 22 way. And I think that you need to frame the raise to the 23 membership that are really unhappy about it, because they 24 are so used to getting it done cheap, that it does support 25 other programs for the benefit of all. 888 1 And, well, they may object to that. That's 2 really kind of what we're doing. We need to get a little 3 extra money in there to make up for the deficits or we have 4 to put LA at such a high price that no one will be able to 5 do it, and I think that's one of our most important tools. 6 And I know that this money will be subsidizing a little bit 7 of LA, but I would like to see it done with the raise year 8 round and a discount for off-season. 9 And Allen may be looking at a different tier 10 of fees for yearling -- 12 to 13 -- or 12 to 30 months as a 11 different fee than we have now on there, is what I get from 12 what he's saying. If you hold off on freshen yearlings when 13 they kid, that there should maybe be a fee from one year to 14 12 -- or to 30 months -- 12 to 30 months different than what 15 we have now, because it's over 30 is when we kick in the 16 higher price. 17 MS. SAUM: Reyna. 18 MS. REYNA: There's some repercussions that I 19 don't think that people are aware of with this extra -- 20 what do we call it -- surcharge. Already, in District 7, 21 one show has canceled their kid show. They're going to show 22 only adults. 23 Now, you say it doesn't make a lot of 24 difference. People will do it anyway, but in an area where 25 you can barely, barely keep a show going and there's another 889 1 one that has threatened to do that, because people just -- 2 we couldn't make sanction on any kids. And there are these 3 repercussions and people are also very angry -- I apologized 4 publicly to my district in my director's letters that I had 5 voted for this surcharge, because I think I was wrong. 6 I'm with Pat, we should have simply raised it 7 year round. We should not penalize people that would like 8 to show their animals. 9 MS. SAUM: Rucker. 10 MR. RUCKER: I'm going to sound like a broken 11 record, but I renew it. 12 You know, George said we should know this is 13 coming. Well, if the Finance Committee knew this was 14 coming, the report deadline was August 30th, it could have 15 been sent then with a supplemental of additional information 16 so that it would be very obvious to the members that it was 17 coming so the members could let us know what we're doing. 18 One of the questions I asked on the Board was 19 because I was concerned that our cost for registration is 20 greater than what, I would assume, a majority of income is 21 at the 650 rate, and Phil stated that our overall income was 22 greater than our total cost. 23 Yes, we need to work on cash reserves, but I'm 24 just, again, not comfortable doing something this quickly. 25 We're not bleeding dry quite yet. And I really think we 890 1 need to have the members involved in this decision. 2 I mean, the backlash over the $1 -- I 3 personally think the $1 was a great idea. It seems to have 4 worked. I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a 5 problem with doing across-the-board increases with two or 6 three days' notice. 7 MS. SAUM: Korhonen, did you have your hand 8 up? 9 MR. KORHONEN: Yes, I did. Thank you, ma'am. 10 If I understand your handout from yesterday, 11 the $1 increase analysis for 2004, does that show that we 12 saved $3,500 by the increase of the surcharge? 13 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Yes. What Mike is 14 referring to is the difference between savings -- there are, 15 actually, a couple of issues there. There's a difference in 16 the overtime pay and there's the reduction in the temporary 17 staff, and so that we attribute directly to the change by an 18 incentive issue there of the $1 increase, but that 19 additional amount during rush season saved that 35-, $3,600. 20 The other issue, Mike, is the fact that -- 21 efficiencies is my other point. When you do level-off 22 workload, in my experience, there are some efficiencies that 23 are obtained from that. 24 MR. KORHONEN: Could we attribute the 25 efficiency of the new plan to offset some of the labor 891 1 inefficiency in the rush hour? Could we foresee that? What 2 I saw on that screen yesterday looked like it's a whole lot 3 more efficient than any other system. 4 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Well, Mike, I'll answer 5 it this way: Back in 1994, when President Considine at that 6 time -- I remember somebody asked me -- I think it was 7 Daniel -- to Chair the IM Committee, and I agreed. I agreed 8 because Holstein had just said, "You're over the Board," and 9 we got loads of promises, and, you know -- and I may be a 10 skeptic because of experience, and I've seen it. 11 I think Bryan is tremendous -- I have worked 12 with him -- of everybody we've dealt with. And I can name 13 at least five different computer companies that I've dealt 14 with over the period of time working with it. At the time, 15 Gene Dershewitz was with me. We did think CTG would bring 16 in a great system and it would be so much better than 17 Holstein, and, you know, not quite the case. 18 So until it's actually in the hand, we, 19 accountants, tend not to count it. And hopefully it will. 20 And hopefully there will be those efficiencies and next year 21 we can come to you and say, "Look. Here we are we, and we 22 don't need to do a whatever," but until that's in place, I'm 23 uncomfortable saying that we can take it to the bank. 24 MR. KORHONEN: Okay. And I'm the guy that 25 asked twice for the percentage completed on each one of 892 1 those projects in June, and we have not yet heard what that 2 was other than the quick flash. 3 MS. SAUM: Did he copy those? 4 MR. KORHONEN: The question becomes: We saved 5 $50,000 by not approving the funding for that. So the 6 $3,500 increase, from an accountant's point of view, 7 certainly is offset by that $50,000, I would think. 8 My people -- the only comment that I heard as 9 I was running for director was that, "Surcharge doesn't seem 10 to be fair because that's when we want to register our 11 goats." 12 MS. SAUM: Gustafson. 13 MS. GUSTAFSON: Would it be possible to amend 14 this so that the rush season fee $1 increase applies to 15 animals only over 30 days old? That's member-friendly. It 16 does not penalize those that are wanting to register very, 17 very young kids. They know they're going to be showing 18 them. But by the same token, if they don't get on the ball, 19 get them registered, they know this $1 is coming. 20 MS. SAUM: I have a motion from Gustafson to 21 amend the $1 increase -- or the $1 fee during rush season to 22 only does 30 days or older. 23 Is there a second? Burks. 24 Strickland, you want discussion on the motion? 25 MS. STRICKLAND: Yes. I would speak in 893 1 opposition to that amendment, because when you get into 2 kidding season, what are you doing 30 days into kidding 3 season? Going crazy. And I don't think this helps the 4 situation at all in terms of this action. I think that what 5 we're dealing with is, "Do we want to raise the fees $1 6 across the board or do we want to even keep the surcharge?" 7 You know, I'd rather look at the emotion -- the motion that 8 way. 9 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 10 MR. ALTHEIDE: I would also speak in 11 opposition to this, because in talking with Shirley in the 12 past -- and one of the issues with processing, the current 13 software has -- doesn't differentiate by age. For 14 registrations that came in, they had to process all the 15 registrations that were postmarked by April 1st; then stop 16 and then go in and change the price on the registration from 17 $6.50 to $7.50. So the question would be: If we did this, 18 would the new ROSS system allow for, number one, flagging 19 those kids that were registered, however many there might 20 be, under 30 days at the $6.50 rate and then charge for the 21 $7.50? 22 MS. SAUM: To answer your question about the 23 ROSS System, I'm not sure how that one is programmed in. I 24 would think that it is because Bryan knows there's different 25 fee schedules. But if it's not -- like Linda said, anything 894 1 is possible for a fee. 2 So I don't know the answer to that, George. I 3 wish I did, but I don't. 4 All those in favor of the amendment by 5 Gustafson and seconded by Burk would be to only have the $1 6 increase in fee during rush season for does -- animals 30 7 days or older. 8 All those in favor say "aye." 9 (All those in favor of the motion so 10 responded.) 11 MS. SAUM: Can I have the "ayes." 12 Daniel Considine, Gustafson, Burks, Helen 13 Snyder, Rowe. 14 "Nos" -- oh. Korhonen is an "aye." 15 (Brief Pause) 16 MS. SAUM: Last chance. 17 Any -- "no" votes? 18 (All those in opposition to the motion so 19 responded.) 20 MS. SAUM: Abstention? 21 (No response) 22 MS. SAUM: No abstentions. Motion failed. 23 Okay. We're back to the original motion to 24 recommend an increase of $1 in every category. 25 Bitter. 895 1 MR. BITTER: I want to handle just the does 2 first, if I can try this -- don't bother me, Laurie. 3 (Laughter) 4 MR. BITTER: I move that does under six months 5 be $7.50; does over six months and the work postmarked 6 April 1 to August 31 be $12.00; does over six months 7 postmarked September 1 to March 31 be $10. If it helps your 8 psyche, you can move the $10 one in front of the $12 one. 9 Okay? It's just the way I happened to write them down. 10 MS. SAUM: Do we have a second to Bitter's 11 motion? 12 MS. PETERSEN: I'll second it. 13 MS. SAUM: Petersen seconded it. 14 Rowe. 15 MS. ROWE: Do we have any idea how -- the 16 numbers of registrations that would be affected by that 17 intermediate level, because there are commercial herds that 18 freshen does and then register, and I do have some concerns 19 about adding at intermediate level. 20 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 21 MS. CAMPBELL: The Registration Committee 22 brought a sliding scale registration to the Board, I think, 23 in 1991, and I think we've brought it back several times. 24 And the discussion at that point -- we had similar 25 breakouts. The discussion and the reason and the logic, as 896 1 I recall, going to the 30 months was, that gives the 2 commercial operations and other individuals an opportunity 3 to determine whether or not that doe is worthy of 4 registration or they're keeping them in the herd. 5 So, you know, this -- it's a compromise, but 6 that was the logic, as I recall, with the 30 months when we 7 established it. 8 MS. SAUM: Any more discussion on the motion 9 by Bitter? 10 Petersen. 11 MS. PETERSEN: Although I seconded this -- I 12 mean, I actually like the concept, except for, I'm not sure 13 we should go to $12 and $10 on the -- anything, because I'm 14 thinking that does over six months would only be that kind 15 of rush season thing. So it shouldn't be quite that big of 16 a jump. 17 MS. SAUM: Bozzo. 18 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Allen, did you have 19 nonmember rates for those or is that just for member rates? 20 MS. SAUM: They're just member rates -- 21 correct -- of does. 22 MR. BITTER: Well, the nonmember rates would 23 just be double those member rates. 24 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Question. 25 MS. SAUM: Okay. The question has been called 897 1 for Allen's amendment for does only under six months would 2 be $7.50; six months or over, April 1 to August 31st would 3 be $12; and does greater than six months, September 1st to 4 March 31st would be $10. I couldn't read my own writing. 5 All those in favor of these changes in fees, 6 please signify by saying "aye." 7 (All those in favor of the motion so 8 responded.) 9 (Laughter) 10 MS. SAUM: One "yes" vote from Bitter. 11 "Nos"? 12 (All those in opposition to the motion so 13 responded.) 14 MS. SAUM: Abstention? 15 Petersen. 16 (Laughter) 17 MS. SAUM: Motion failed. 18 Strickland. 19 MS. STRICKLAND: I would like us to consider 20 an increase in the registration fees for all categories 21 across the board separately from this $1 during the rush 22 season. So I would move that we amend this to strike the 23 phrase "the additional $1" -- "including the additional $1 24 during the rush season;" see if we can't agree on an 25 across-the-board raise and then deal with what we're going 898 1 to do with that surcharge. Are we going to keep it, not 2 keep it? 3 That would be my motion, would be to take it 4 out of this action. 5 MS. SAUM: I need -- okay. I need a second. 6 Reyna. 7 Now Daniel is asking to divide it. 8 MS. SAUM: State your motion again, Chris. 9 MS. STRICKLAND: That's basically what I want 10 to do. I didn't know, if it wasn't two sentences, if it 11 could be divided. If I can divide it in the middle of the 12 sentence, then I would like to divide the action. Motion to 13 divide. 14 MS. SAUM: State it again for me. I had 15 people talking to me when you were talking. I'm sorry. 16 MS. STRICKLAND: I would like this action, 3A, 17 to just state "Recommend an increase of $1 in every category 18 of registration," period. 19 MS. SAUM: Period. 20 MS. STRICKLAND: And then deal with the whole 21 concept of the $1 fee during rush season. 22 MS. SAUM: Okay. So the motion is before 23 you -- the amendment to the motion -- 24 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Just a clarification. 25 You're still leaving effective date in there? Are you 899 1 making the effective date immediately after this meeting, 2 which means the rates increase next week? I mean, I 3 think -- or is it first of the year? The effective date -- 4 because you said stop there, but you're still leaving the 5 effective date -- 6 MS. STRICKLAND: No. I meant stop removing 7 there. That's all I want to do, is take out that language 8 about the rush season $1 fee. 9 MS. SAUM: Okay. So we're leaving the April 1 10 alone right now and all we're dealing with is the first 11 sentence. We're recommending $1 increase in every category 12 of registration fees," period, end of sentence; the rest of 13 it would be struck. The rest of that sentence would be 14 struck. 15 (Simultaneous discussion) 16 MS. SAUM: Okay. Are we clear on this? 17 MR. PAGE: No. When's the effective date? 18 MS. SAUM: We're not changing that. It will 19 stay April 1st, unless somebody changes it later. 20 Daubert. 21 MR. DAUBERT: Chris, would you entertain doing 22 $2? 23 MS. STRICKLAND: (Shaking head) 24 MS. SAUM: What did you say, Dave? 25 MR. DAUBERT: I asked if she would entertain 900 1 changing the recommended increase from $1 to $2. 2 MS. SAUM: Chris is saying "no." She's not 3 interested. 4 MR. DAUBERT: That would allow, then, the rush 5 season discount -- or the rush season nondiscount. 6 MS. SAUM: She's shaking her head "no." 7 Senn. 8 MS. SENN: If you remove the rush season 9 discount -- surcharge, why would we need to make it 10 April 1st? Why wouldn't you make it January 1st? Because 11 that would be -- is it a notification thing? 12 MS. SAUM: Cassette, Phil. 13 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: The concern we had in 14 Finance Committee, Karen, and for the Board, is that because 15 of the time -- because of when New and Events is going to 16 come out, proper notification to the members, to give them a 17 chance to register at the lower rate -- New and Events by 18 the time it goes out, we all know it, the fourth quarter 19 one, will be end of December sometime. If you make it 20 January 1st, you give them no time to deal with it. We felt 21 April 1 gave the members the chance to take care of those 22 that they might not have done and get it done. That's why 23 the April 1 is there. 24 MS. SENN: I just -- 25 MS. SAUM: Rucker -- oops. Go ahead, Karen. 901 1 MS. SENN: I'm sorry. I just thought it was 2 tied to the rush season thing and I -- 3 MS. SAUM: I think, out of Finance, Karen, the 4 date April 1st came up to be member-friendly, and then it 5 was the same date the fees changed. So there wasn't a 6 two-day thing that they were looking at. 7 Rucker. 8 MR. RUCKER: I appreciate that logic. I do 9 like that. 10 I still -- we did increase our cash reserves, 11 essentially, by $50,000 by not approving the IM Committee 12 request. We're not quite as bad as we were. We -- 13 (Simultaneous discussion) 14 MR. RUCKER: Motion to split only? 15 Nevermind. I'll talk later. 16 MS. SAUM: Okay. Let's vote on the motion to 17 divide the issue. We're looking at the issue of the rate 18 increase of $1 and not the rate increase during rush season. 19 Do we want to go ahead and vote on that, that that's the 20 only issue we're going to deal with? 21 Strickland. 22 MS. STRICKLAND: So we're looking at each of 23 those separately. We're not voting to accept the $1 fee 24 increase. 25 MS. SAUM: Correct. You're voting on the 902 1 motion to divide. Are we set? 2 (No verbal response) 3 MS. SAUM: So if you vote "yes" on this, 4 you're going to say, "Yes. I want to discuss the $1 5 increase, but I don't want to discuss the $1 increase during 6 rush season." 7 Okay. All those in favor say "aye." 8 (All those in favor of the motion so 9 responded.) 10 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 11 (All those in opposition to the motion so 12 responded.) 13 MS. SAUM: "No" votes, please. 14 Faircloth, Goddard. 15 Abstentions? 16 (No response) 17 MS. SAUM: Okay. The motion passed. So we're 18 going to discuss the recommended increase of the $1 in every 19 category of registration. 20 Rucker. 21 MR. RUCKER: Okay. Back again, we do have the 22 $50,000 back in the cash reserves without the IM proposal. 23 It could be that we will find some cost efficiencies with 24 the ROSS System. I'd really like us to revisit this next 25 year and look at it then. I just -- I'm not comfortable 903 1 doing it now. 2 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 3 MR. ALTHEIDE: Essentially, Tom, what you just 4 stated was the reasons why I voted against the $1 fee last 5 year, non-notification to the membership, but how many years 6 can we say, "We need to go back and look at this next year 7 because we didn't tell the membership good enough that it 8 was coming"? I think we need to look at it. We need to 9 deal with it this year. 10 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 11 MS. STRICKLAND: If we look at the cost 12 analysis, granting that there are assumptions, it's showing 13 us 669 per registration, which is not -- which is a greater 14 fee than -- a greater cost than we are charging in fees. I 15 would speak in favor of the $1 increase. And what I would 16 like to see, then, is work on a sliding scale brought back 17 to the Board next October. 18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Question. 19 MS. SAUM: Question has been called. 20 The motion before you is to recommend a $1 21 increase in every category of registration fees effective 22 April 1st, 2005. 23 All those in favor say "aye." 24 (All those in favor of the motion so 25 responded.) 904 1 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 2 (All those in opposition to the motion so 3 responded.) 4 MS. SAUM: The "no" votes, please. 5 Campbell, Faircloth, Anderson, Dean, Rucker, 6 Goddard, Gustafson, Proctor. 7 Abstentions? 8 Nine "no" votes. 9 I said Campbell, didn't I? 10 (Simultaneous responses) 11 MS. SAUM: Okay. Yes. I said you. I 12 wouldn't miss you, Linda. 13 The motion passed. So the increase in the $1 14 fee in every registration will take effect April 1st, 2005. 15 Do we want to talk about the rush season 16 surcharge? 17 Senn. 18 MS. SENN: I'd just like to ask what the 19 significance is or the amount that that would be on our 20 budget if we don't do the $1; based on that, what we would 21 have made, the $30,000 that we estimated we would make. 22 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Right. Instead of the 23 increase in $30,000, it would be an increase of $4,000. 24 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 25 MS. CAMPBELL: However, I think we will see an 905 1 increase for those individuals who are going to take 2 advantage of this period of time up until April 1. 3 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 4 MS. STRICKLAND: Are you saying that the $1 5 rush -- that extra $1 during rush season brought us $30,000 6 extra? 7 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: No. What we said is, it 8 brought $20,000 during that period of time. When we said 9 we're going to increase it on April 1st on through, the $1, 10 you're going to take the fall piece of that. There's the 11 spring, the middle and fall part. Now we're only dealing 12 with the $1 part for next year. 13 The number of registrations -- what you're 14 increasing over what we've had is, you're increasing the 15 number of registrations that are in that last quarter. So 16 instead of going up 30 -- I'll double-check my numbers, 17 but -- but I believe what it's going to move is not all that 18 much, because we had $1 last year. We had the $1 from 19 April through September. And the only thing you're doing 20 for 2005 is adding -- by increasing it effective, then 21 you're adding it for that last quarter. 22 MS. SAUM: Do you see what he's saying, Chris? 23 (No verbal response) 24 MS. SAUM: Okay. Considine. 25 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: That explanation, you 906 1 know, I think covers the implication of what this change 2 would be compared to how we did business in 2004. But 3 looking at the budget that's proposed for 2005, it has more 4 difference than that, because -- Phil, are you -- 5 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: I'm listening to you, 6 Daniel. 7 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: Okay. The assumptions 8 that he made there -- that we made there were that we were 9 going to generate the $20,000 from the extra charge during 10 the summer and another $30,000, because there would be 11 another $1 per registration on 30,000 transactions. So 12 the -- if you remove the $1 increase during peak season, the 13 difference that you make from the proposed budget is not 14 $4,000; it's actually $20,000, because the plan was that 15 during the summer people would be paying the $1 and they 16 would also be paying $1, anyway, for those 30,000 17 transactions. So you take the whole 20 away if you remove 18 that. 19 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Right. And let me get 20 back, because, Chris, I made a mistake. And you're right. 21 Thank you for catching it. I only took out the 22 registrations in the last quarter and we only go -- rush 23 reason last year was up through the end of August. When I 24 gave you what the $1 increase would be, I did not take in 25 the September number. So you're right. 907 1 The $1 increase as opposed to what we're 2 booking for 30 would be closer -- somewhere between 9- to 3 $10,000 is what we've now passed for the budget, and the 4 20,000 -- 21,000 -- whatever -- we can debate that number 5 during rush season -- is what is not there. You're right. 6 And I do apologize. 7 So what we've approved so far from our 8 baseline would bring it up 10. What you've been given, if 9 you're working off the numbers there, if we don't approve 10 the additional $1, you would reduce income by $20,000. 11 MS. SAUM: Reyna. 12 MS. REYNA: I recognize the logic of looking 13 at this year only and its effects. However, this -- when 14 you make an increase, it isn't just this year. It goes next 15 year and the year after, and the difference next year would 16 be considerably more than it would be this year. So we're 17 really only talking about something that you don't feel is 18 adequate for this year only. 19 Now, we did save -- I guess we saved some 20 money by not putting that $50,000 in the budget, but I do 21 not want to penalize people. I don't think they're going to 22 want to do that. And if you were going to do it, $.50 is 23 enough. I just don't like the idea of penalizing people for 24 registering animals at the time that they want to get that 25 done. 908 1 MS. SAUM: Okay. The motion on the floor is 2 for an additional $1 during rush season. 3 Gustafson. 4 MS. SAUM: So if you want to change that, 5 Shari, you'd have to amend that, if you want to change that 6 $1. 7 Gustafson. 8 MS. GUSTAFSON: I'd like to amend the motion 9 to read an increase of $.50 for the period of one year only, 10 so that if they want to do this again, that we have to do 11 the rush hour -- the rush season next year, it has to be 12 approved again. Approve it for one year only. 13 MS. SAUM: Is there a second to that? 14 Jamie Burks. 15 So the amendment to what Finance is proposing, 16 instead of including an additional $1 fee during rush 17 season, it would be $.50 fee during rush season and 18 effective only for the year 2005; that we would have to 19 re-approve that next year. 20 Discussion? 21 Nixon. 22 MS. NIXON: I would like to speak against the 23 amendment and remind the Association that with the leveling 24 out -- with the $1 increase last year and the increase in 25 turn around on registrations, people who have been paying 909 1 double in rush fees during that time of the year in the 2 past, in order to get their registrations back for shows, 3 have not been paying that. So, actually -- the actual cost 4 of the membership with the $1 increase is less on many of 5 them than it has been in years. 6 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 7 MR. ALTHEIDE: I'd also like to speak against 8 this. I think it would drop income by about $10,000. We 9 have no idea what the effect of the savings that would be in 10 the budget. We figured $3,500 worth of savings on expenses 11 in the budget because of the leveling out of the workload. 12 We don't know -- people will rush and register early to save 13 $1. We have no idea if they'll do it for $.50. We could 14 very well end up with the same situation that we've ended up 15 the last few years, paying a large amount of overtime to try 16 to keep the number of member complaints about turnaround 17 time down. So I would speak against this. 18 I do think that if we wanted to increase it $1 19 and just make it for one year and then revisit it next year, 20 that would be appropriate. 21 MS. SAUM: Do I have anybody who wants to 22 speak in favor of the motion to reduce the rush season fee 23 to $.50 for one year? 24 (No response) 25 MS. SAUM: No? 910 1 Okay. Then let's go ahead and vote. 2 All in favor of the amendment by Gustafson to 3 increase the rush season fee $.50 for the year 2005, vote 4 "yes." 5 All those in favor say "aye." 6 (All those in favor of the motion so 7 responded.) 8 MS. SAUM: "Aye" votes, please. 9 Pete Snyder, Burks, Gustafson. 10 MS. SAUM: "Nos"? 11 (All those in opposition to the motion so 12 responded.) 13 MS. SAUM: Abstentions? 14 (No response) 15 MS. SAUM: No abstentions. The motion failed. 16 So we're back to the original motion of 17 including an additional $1 during rush season. 18 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Question. 19 MS. SAUM: I think Burks had his hand up 20 first. Sorry. 21 MR. BURKS: I would like to make a motion that 22 we have this $1 increase for one year and then revisit it. 23 MS. SAUM: A second to that? Gustafson. 24 The amended motion is from Burks, and he's 25 stating that the additional $1 fee during rush season is for 911 1 the year 2005 only, and we'd have to revisit that next year 2 if we wanted to continue that fee for 2006. 3 MR. BITTER: Question. 4 MS. SAUM: The question has been called. 5 All in favor say "aye." 6 (All those in favor of the motion so 7 responded.) 8 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 9 (No response) 10 MS. SAUM: Abstentions? 11 (No response) 12 MS. SAUM: Motion carried. 13 (Simultaneous discussion) 14 MS. SAUM: Oh. I missed a "no." Who said 15 "no"? 16 Mike Korhonen was a "no," and so is Goddard. 17 I'm sorry. Thank you. 18 Okay. That was just the amendment. 19 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Question. 20 MS. SAUM: The question has been called for 21 the original. So now we're voting -- where is that 22 parliamentarian lady when you need her? 23 All in favor say "aye." 24 (All those in favor of the motion so 25 responded.) 912 1 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "nos." 2 (All those in opposition to the motion so 3 responded.) 4 MS. SAUM: The "ayes," please. 5 (Simultaneous discussion) 6 MS. SAUM: The $1 increase for the summer 7 2005, one year, the "yes" votes. 8 Phil Cassette, Campbell, Bozzo, Sankey, 9 Altheide, Kempe, Daubert, Helen Snyder, Peter Snyder, 10 Weaver, Anderson, Senn, Dean, Rowe, Bitter, Page, Burks, 11 Proctor, Daniel Considine, Saum. 20. 12 You "ayes" didn't say "aye" very loud. 13 Any abstentions? 14 (No response) 15 MS. SAUM: No abstentions. Motion carried. 16 MS. SAUM: Okay. So we're up to the budget. 17 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Okay. Based on all of 18 the action that you've done, so that we can approve the 19 budget in total -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- but I 20 believe we've made no changes to the income side. 21 On the expense side, revised 2004 budget, 22 under salaries and wages, you need to increase that $4,800, 23 up to $274,800. 24 (Brief Pause) 25 MS. P. CASSETTE: That's the only item for 913 1 2004. It would change the revised net loss to $65,700. 2 For the proposed budget for 2005, changes and 3 expense category, salaries and wages would go to $322,300. 4 That's up the $4,800, which is the vacation payout. 5 If you come down to "other committees," it's 6 going to increase to $27,600. It's two items, $500 that was 7 approved as part of Type and $3,300 that was approved as 8 part of History -- would be an expense next year. 9 Grants and scholarships, reduce that number 10 down to $10,000. That's the -- from the foundation not 11 asking for the funding for the current year. 12 (Brief Pause) 13 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Therefore, your total 14 expense would be $1,161,900. Total expense -- the total 15 expense line would be $1,161,900, which would change the 16 projected loss -- I'm just trying to make sure I do my 17 numbers right -- correct me -- hopefully somebody in Finance 18 is double-checking my math here. It would reduce the 19 projected loss by, I calculate, $1,400, if I've done it 20 right, which would bring us down to a loss of $27,900. 21 Basically, we increased -- we increased three items, 4,800, 22 33 and 500, and then we reduced one down 10,000. So it's a 23 net reduction in expenses -- Allen, did you do the math? 24 MR. BITTER: No, I haven't. I was just 25 wondering if you-all were still excited about this. 914 1 (Laughter) 2 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Any time your projected 3 loss goes down, it is always exciting. I will say, at our 4 place, there's no such thing as allowing deficit budgeting, 5 but -- Strickland. 6 MS. STRICKLAND: Could you give us the first 7 things that were changed for those of us that were paper 8 challenged and couldn't find our form quick enough? 9 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Okay. Do you want -- 10 the only change for the -- are we talking about revised 11 budget 2004? There's only one change, which is salaries and 12 wages, increase 4,800 to $274,800, which then changed the 13 loss at the bottom, the projected net loss, to $65,700. 14 Okay. For the proposed budget for 2005, we 15 increased salaries and wages the 4,800 -- again, for the 16 second half of the payout -- to $322,300. 17 The next item that changed was "other 18 committees." It was increased by -- coming out of two 19 separate committee votes, Type for 500 and History for 20 3,300. The new number there is $27,600. 21 Then the last category that changed was grants 22 and scholarships, reduced down by the $10,000 to 10,000. 23 And then you have the two totalings. Right? 24 Total expense, 1,161,900 and a revised loss -- projected 25 loss of $27,900. 915 1 The other item that was changed on here, if 2 you go down to capital expenditures, there were the two 3 items that were approved in IM for the 10,000 and the 15. 4 So it -- you should change the 75 to 25,000. 5 Those are revisions approved by the Board. 6 MS. SAUM: Altheide. 7 MR. ALTHEIDE: Phil, could you give us the new 8 adjusted net loss? I think you skipped that line. 9 MS. SAUM: It's 27,900 -- oh. I'm sorry. 10 MR. ALTHEIDE: The adjusted net loss would be 11 77,000 ARMS write-off. 12 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: So it would be -- the 13 adjusted net loss would be $104,900. 14 MS. SAUM: Okay. Any other questions on the 15 budget -- the revised budget or the proposed? 16 (No response) 17 MS. SAUM: Okay. If I don't hear any 18 objections, we're going to vote on this all together. Is 19 that okay? 20 (No response) 21 MS. SAUM: All right. I just want to ask. 22 So what you're voting on are the changes that 23 Phil just gave you in the revised budget for 2004 and then 24 the proposed budget for 2005. And that's going to include 25 income and expense side. 916 1 Does anybody have any questions? Do you need 2 anything clarified? Are we all set? 3 MR. BITTER: I checked your numbers. They 4 look -- 5 MS. SAUM: Gustafson. 6 MS. GUSTAFSON: I'm not sure if this fits in 7 right here. I'm not an accountant. But what will this do 8 to our ending cash reserve? 9 MS. SAUM: He's adding or subtracting. Hold 10 on one second. 11 (Brief Pause) 12 MR. BITTER: Would increase some $51,400. 13 Right, Phil? 14 MS. SAUM: Yes, but he has to add it. 15 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: No. You didn't take the 16 reduction that we made for 2004 into account. We added 17 $4,800 for the remainder of this year. 18 MR. BITTER: Oh, sorry. 19 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: So I would have the 20 revised number projected cash balance -- I'm going way out 21 to projected cash balance at the end of 2005. I'm not going 22 to give you the other changes in there unless you want them 23 -- do you want to go through them all? I'm just going to 24 give you a revised projected ending balance. 183,300. If 25 you want the whole pennies there, $89.93, and we'll see 15 917 1 months from now how close we are. But it does move it up to 2 $183,000 projected balance. 3 MS. SAUM: Any other questions on anything in 4 the budget or questions of Phil before we vote on the budget 5 in its entirety? 6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Question. 7 MS. SAUM: Question has been called. 8 All in favor of approving the revised 2004 9 budget and the proposed 2005 budget, please signify by 10 saying "aye." 11 (All those in favor of the motion so 12 responded.) 13 MS. SAUM: Any "nos"? 14 (All those in opposition to the motion so 15 responded.) 16 MS. SAUM: Petersen, Goddard are "nos." 17 Any abstentions? 18 (No response) 19 MS. SAUM: Motion passed. 20 Anything else from Finance -- oh. I'm sorry. 21 Rowe. 22 MS. ROWE: Last year during the membership 23 meeting, I had asked that if Finance Committee could look at 24 some long-range planning and then give us information. I 25 understand there's been, perhaps, some effort in that. 918 1 Do you have any progress for us or information 2 to provide? 3 MS. SAUM: Campbell wants to address that. 4 MS. CAMPBELL: Well, I mean, I'll yield to 5 Finance Chair, if he would prefer. 6 I didn't get to speak to the discussion about 7 the raise in the increase for the registration. I 8 personally voted against it in committee -- and not because 9 I didn't think we needed to be looking at that income, but 10 because I wanted to look at a broader picture. And I feel 11 very strongly we're going to need to see increases in areas 12 such as membership. 13 And I think the discussion in the Finance 14 Committee was that, you know, in agreement, that, yes, we do 15 need to look at where we are in terms of a total picture and 16 where we need to, you know, be carrying us forward in terms 17 of increases or efficiencies, both, in the coming year. 18 So I feel very comfortable that the Finance 19 Committee understands that charge and that we will move 20 forward with that in looking very closely at these costs so 21 we can make sure we are operating sustainably and doing so 22 for a projected period of time. 23 MS. SAUM: Dean. 24 MS. DEAN: I just wanted to go on record and 25 in the minutes, that, you know, we keep hearing that "The 919 1 membership isn't aware. The membership isn't aware." The 2 membership needs to be aware. It is the responsibility of 3 this Board to make the membership aware of the budget that 4 we have, the loss that we're operating under, and they need 5 to be aware we belong to a wonderful association that 6 provides us many, many services and benefits, and somehow or 7 another, we're going to have to pay for that. 8 So it is our job to get out and tell people, 9 you know, "This is fabulous. We have a great association. 10 We're making improvements. We don't have everything we want 11 yet, but we are making progress but it costs money to run 12 business." 13 MS. SAUM: Any other comments? 14 Cassette. 15 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: I'd like to comment to 16 both of the last statements that were made both by Rowe and 17 by Dean. 18 Yes. We -- I am big on looking at long-range 19 planning. There's some problems with that when our 20 Association currently -- in the fact that -- I look at it 21 that we're in a transition period through this next computer 22 system. 23 I've asked Bill Marshall. I've spoken some at 24 length with Allen Bitter about what do they see in their 25 committee, what do we see, what kind of numbers. Allen and 920 1 I spoke at the refresher session about technology 2 applications there as well. 3 So my answer to you is, in coming back to the 4 Board, I'm a little disappointed that I'm not bringing 5 clearer longer-range plans now. I had envisioned at the 6 beginning of the year that we'd have them, and I'm hoping 7 that this current year, with the new ROSS coming online, 8 that, hopefully, will stabilize that part of it. Then we 9 can take a look at -- I would like to see three areas. 10 What investment do we need to make in our 11 Association, whether it's technology, whether it is looking 12 at areas that can be done differently and may not involve 13 technology, but different deliverables of what we presently 14 are providing to our members in order to cut the expense, 15 and challenge, then, to the Committee Chairs to say, "Here's 16 some of what we see. You need to work on these items to 17 come back to us," and, at the same time, challenge the 18 Committee Chairs to come up with ideas sending back to 19 Finance to work. That's part of it. 20 The other piece is, we talked. We spoke in 21 Finance Committee. We need to regive out -- and I'm hoping 22 to get that done over the next quarter -- to the Board the 23 expense items. What capital items do we look at, working 24 with Shirley McKenzie in the office, of equipment issues, 25 from photo copiers, those -- you know, those kinds of 921 1 equipment that we bought to give you guys a heads up. 2 We did them a couple of years ago. We haven't 3 brought them forward. We need to look at -- when I say to 4 Bill, "What do you think," and Bill Marshall gives me this, 5 "Well, you know, we have these issues and we're looking 6 forward," what I'd like to do and what we do at our place 7 is, we do the, "Here's the capital piece. We definitely 8 will need replacement of these items. And here's our wish 9 list." 10 And what we say to our managers, we really put 11 no limits on that wish list. What we want you to do is a 12 prioritizing issue. "Okay. If this is your wish list, then 13 what are you saying is your top priority?" What does -- for 14 example, "Joanie, what does Production Testing need and what 15 do they see and is there any items specifically there?" 16 That's my goal for the next six months working with the 17 Committee Chairs so we can start beginning to identify, 18 "What is the needed investment and what is the change in 19 deliverables that might be able to reduce the expense 20 piece?" That's assuming that I come back as Finance 21 Chair -- assumption there. 22 Those are the items. Then we need look at the 23 equipment. I believe, now, in our office, we have made an 24 investment in there, the $50,000-plus that we've spent this 25 year, and the facility is in good shape and I don't see any 922 1 significance there, except for the item that we withdrew 2 that was the request from the Association Manager regarding 3 workstations. 4 And I'll make one comment on that. I went in 5 the office, and the one that I really see as a problem is 6 the Association Manager's desk. It's a beautiful piece of 7 furniture. However, it's not ergonomically correct. It is 8 a very old desk. And we all know what they look like. It's 9 a beautiful piece of furniture. It's not meant for what we 10 do and how we work today as far as technology. There is no 11 side arm. There's no space. The keyboard level is not at 12 the right spot. 13 And my issue back to the Executive Committee 14 is, I believe that the desk has some value. I'd like us -- 15 personally, I'd like us to sell the desk. It does nothing 16 for us for posterity to having this desk. Somebody might 17 want that kind of an executive desk -- and buy a workstation 18 that makes that position as functional and as efficient as 19 can be. 20 Those are the items that were going to come to 21 you. I do apologize we don't have quite as much at this 22 point. 23 Can I just address the -- you know, has this 24 question about pay for services. 25 MS. SAUM: Sure. 923 1 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Yes. We understand that 2 rising in cost, but we need to use -- and we're going to try 3 to use as much as of, I believe, technology to keep those 4 costs down. 5 If the members do not realize how we have been 6 able to keep rates steady since 1992, it is technology, 7 technology, technology, even though we have had many 8 problems in our computer systems. But if we look at what 9 you did in 1993 and you paid to Holstein and what we're 10 looking at present cost, it is technology that's kept us, 11 and we need to stay up front in that issue, and that's kind 12 of the investment piece. 13 I just want to go on record that, you know, 14 we've had some issues in technology, but, you know, that has 15 kept our rates in line in working on that. 16 MS. SAUM: Reyna. 17 MS. REYNA: I'm standing because I'm 18 uncomfortable, not because I'm trying to tower over -- it's 19 the only way I can do it, but -- 20 (Laughter) 21 MS. REYNA: There is one -- Phil is talking 22 about investment in our organization -- our wonderful 23 organization that we all value a great deal, but I submit 24 there's one avenue of doing that that we have not -- or at 25 least to my knowledge we have not been using. 924 1 I have worked for the same nonprofit 2 corporation for almost 20 years now, and one of the things 3 we have done very seriously is solicit requests, solicit 4 investments from people. Sometimes we are given just a sum 5 of money for a certain purpose. We have been recently 6 moving to a really fancy new building and a great deal of 7 the -- what do you call it -- the foundation monies have 8 come from people who have either left money in a will or 9 they have chosen to contribute to a nonprofit for, you know, 10 some tax purposes and so on. 11 This is the sort of thing that can be very 12 successful if it's pursued, and to my knowledge, I don't -- 13 have we pursued this? 14 MS. SAUM: Cassette. 15 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Okay. Shari, there are 16 two issues you're bringing up, and one of the ones I did 17 want to bring up, because I really wanted to address an 18 e-mail that I did not answer at the time to Director 19 Hendrickson. And I will say, Pat, I apologize for not 20 getting right back to you. You raised the issue, and I 21 didn't want to answer it because I was a little 22 uncomfortable as to what the status would be. 23 I had hoped -- I'm going to cover part of it. 24 The ADGA Helen Staver Foundation, the Youth piece that was 25 brought forward and concept approved by the Board, there was 925 1 a problem with some of that paperwork that was turned over 2 to me. It was -- the electronic part was lost. All we had 3 was hard copy. So I have retyped the 26 pages of that, have 4 sent it to Kristen Adles, who works at Deloitte & Touche, 5 for her to make sure that it's there. I have put into place 6 and completed the IRS application for nonprofit status for 7 the foundation in a typical, you know, 501.3(c) -- you know, 8 the actual nonprofit charitable kind of issue for a number 9 of areas not restricted to scientific research, which is 10 really what the ADGA foundation is. That is dealt much more 11 on the scientific side. 12 The way the wording is on the foundation, that 13 it would allow that foundation to cover other items, 14 including research items, that I would look, actually, in 15 your way, Shari, for some of the history stuff to fund as 16 opposed to coming out of our general fund, perhaps, funding 17 some of those costs. 18 So when you're saying "Look for money for 19 specific purposes," there might be some issues there for 20 funding. 21 I spoke with Katie Biddle and with Paul 22 Plummer regarding Youth activities that you couldn't get -- 23 you couldn't get outside, but under the Charitable Education 24 piece and the Youth piece, we could get paid. 25 With that foundation, in speaking with Kristen 926 1 at Nationals, the foundation needs a solid block, also, to 2 deal with scholarships. Technically, ADGA should not really 3 be accepting the donations in the same way. We're 4 nonprofit -- or, actually, the correct term is 5 not-for-profit. We're not-for-profit. We are not a 6 charitable organization; there is a difference. 7 The thought process would be to move that 8 whole giving over here to the foundation that could, then, 9 for specific purposes pay for projects being done. And some 10 of those projects might be done in coordination with 11 Committee Chairs, with the office, moving in that direction. 12 We believe that the foundation needs a permanent endowment 13 of somewheres between 100- and $150,000 to fund the 14 scholarship piece that we're no longer able to fund at that 15 level in the routine. 16 And part -- Kristen and I have spoken in a way 17 -- Shari, you and I spoke a number of years ago about this, 18 that people could not necessarily donate money but might 19 donate property -- but clearly able, legally, to donate 20 property that we could give them a receipt for to take a 21 charitable deduction on their form. It's almost there. 22 We need to get the ID number for the 23 foundation, which is applying to the IRS for before it's 24 sent in the application, and we need to get the paperwork in 25 North Carolina done, some $300. 927 1 So we're a little bit more -- and I apologize. 2 It's been very busy. I should have gotten on it a year or 3 two ago, but that's some of it, Shari, working in that 4 direction. 5 Reyna. 6 MS. REYNA: I did know that you're working on 7 it, and I know that that's coming forth. My thought was, as 8 we have found in our nonprofit, is that these things don't 9 just fall in your lap. Some committee, in order to maximize 10 the giving to this foundation, it is possible that we -- in 11 order to really maximize this, you need somebody who is 12 working on it, and that has to be assigned to some committee 13 or some way to get out the information, to talk to people 14 who are interested, et cetera. 15 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: You're totally right, 16 Shari, and that would be the trustees of the foundation, of 17 which, I hope you remember, Shari, that you volunteered to 18 serve on, for the trustees of the foundation. 19 My involvement with the University of Southern 20 Maine in their charitable giving area is that I do have, 21 basically, a professional fundraiser who has offered, in 22 addition to working at the university, to advise us on ways 23 that we might approach and set up a way for charitable 24 giving. So we will have some professional help, gratis of 25 my ongoing alumni issues with the University of Southern 928 1 Maine to provide us with that. We're ready. 2 One of the ideas we thought of is, you know, 3 not only out there, but over the years, between the ADGA, 4 Jim Morrison, Dean giving is that this -- we have given 5 $30,000 a year for tons of years, and our thought process 6 would be, go back to those recipients who are now working, 7 those who received them 10 and 15 years ago, and ask them to 8 give back a portion of what they received. If they received 9 $5,000 -- you know $1,000 a year for five years to go to 10 college and they're now out there working, couldn't they 11 give 10 or 15 percent of that back? If they received 12 $1,000, could they not give $100 to the permanent 13 foundation? 14 That came from -- that came as a suggestion 15 from the gal at the university, Peg Berry-Kniesly 16 (phonetic). She said, you know, look for who's benefitted 17 from the Association, look to them first, and through their 18 word of mouth, that, usually, if they give $100, you can 19 probably triple the number that they will come in contact by 20 giving. 21 So we're working on it, Shari, and I apologize 22 to the Board it isn't faster. That is on the to-do list to 23 get it going ASAP. 24 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 25 MS. CAMPBELL: Just to go back a little bit 929 1 further, when I was president -- I believe it was '92 -- I 2 had the same thought processes that you mentioned, Shari, 3 and I actually asked a small group of people -- it wasn't an 4 officially appointed task force or committee, but I asked 5 them to look at some of those logistics of what can be done, 6 and out of that later came at least a recommendation. And, 7 unfortunately, I don't think it's gone to the level it 8 could, and that is the opportunity members have to make 9 donations on their registration applications. We really 10 earn very little from that, but that is a small way that 11 members can assist; so, you know, to remind them that that's 12 an opportunity. 13 But I was approached by two individuals who 14 wanted to will to ADGA significant sums of money. So I then 15 contacted the foundation, at that point, Joan Bowen, and 16 asked that maybe some information be prepared within the 17 foundation that would facilitate that type of donation. I 18 don't think it really moved forward, and then we moved a 19 little different direction with this foundation. 20 So I think the idea certainly has merit, and 21 it's my hope that we do utilize this, because there are 22 people who want to donate significant sums, who have offered 23 to include ADGA, and, you know, those requests, and I think 24 those are very important parts of operating that we should 25 certainly be looking at very carefully. 930 1 I appreciate your comment on that. 2 MS. SAUM: Okay. Strickland. 3 MS. STRICKLAND: This is a comment for Finance 4 and probably ECs, since you're mostly on Finance anyway. 5 Right? 6 I talked to Gary Moore after the presentation 7 yesterday and was thanking him, and he indicated something 8 that he said he thought he should have mentioned to the 9 Board but didn't, that we have to be aware that when our 10 system is running and Bryan is basically done with what he's 11 contracted and we're getting the policy in place for online 12 registration through the IM Committee, that should he get 13 another contract, he could be totally unavailable to us for 14 a period of time. 15 And I think that we need to be aware of all of 16 those implications and where we're at in terms of our IM 17 policy. And I know that we did not approve any funds for 18 that online registration piece, but I just think that it 19 ought to be monitored at some level so that if there's 20 opportunity that we can move forward, that we have the 21 chance as a Board to approve that without losing continuity 22 in what we're doing. 23 MS. SAUM: And I'll address that, and I think 24 Phil wants to. 25 I talk to Gary about bringing forth a proposal 931 1 from IM before next year for the online stuff. He didn't 2 give me a timeline. I'm not sure how fast their committee 3 will work between now and December on that proposal due to 4 trying to get the computer system up and running, but Gary's 5 intent when he left here, to me, was to get that proposal 6 forward for the Board to consider during the next year. So 7 yes. 8 MS. SAUM: Cassette. 9 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: Well, Gary must have 10 been getting the communication from a lot of us, because I 11 covered the same issue with him -- a little differently, 12 though. 13 In speaking with Bryan a week ago when I was 14 down at the office and chatting about, just, in general, 15 what he saw this online registration and pedigree inquiry 16 and stuff, he envisions a series of steps. And so in 17 speaking with Gary a little bit, I said, "You know, 50,000 18 is a big bite. You know, is there any way the IM can work a 19 proposal that might outline those pieces and have specific 20 dollars tied to those so that instead of coming mid year" -- 21 and I think we heard from Tom Rucker saying he's 22 uncomfortable, and, you know, there was another person -- 23 another director -- I apologize for not remembering 24 exactly -- about approving that during the year, but maybe 25 we could approve some moving in that direction without 932 1 having to come up with that kind of money, but, yeah, you 2 know, we're looking at it. 3 We talked to him, trying to see what the Board 4 is willing to do, but there is, certainly, the concern -- 5 they're saying -- and I said to Gary, you know, March is 6 probably the time by the system is really able to know 7 whether the bugs are worked out. "Yes. It will be ready in 8 January." I'm skeptic. I'm sorry. You know, I've been 9 down that line. 10 I think, if it comes online in April -- if it 11 comes online in January, we will have all of the items 12 figured out by some time in March, and then, after that, be 13 able to work something out, but I'm a little concerned about 14 bringing up as may be proposed, the way it was done by IM 15 Committee, and if it was in a step process, the Board might 16 be able to approve that easier. 17 MS. SAUM: So we're up to items for new 18 business, and -- 19 (Laughter) 20 MS. SAUM: -- there appear to be a lot of 21 them. 22 Well, Considine has already had my ear, so 23 we'll start with him and we'll just move around the table, 24 if that's okay, because it seems like there's several of 25 them. 933 1 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: I move ADGA endorse 2 Goats in America Educational Exhibit and send a letter 3 stating the endorsement. 4 MS. CAMPBELL: Second. 5 MS. SAUM: I have a second by Campbell. 6 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: The material that was 7 circulated here gives you some idea of what this is about. 8 This is a display prepared by a couple who are named there 9 and are in the room at this point that has been viewed by 10 some of our members in a presentation here. I'm told that 11 it is a very positive educational display and would be 12 something that would provide the public -- whereever it were 13 displayed -- with a good impression of the dairy goat 14 industry. It has -- it's intended to showcase the 15 versatility and usefulness of goats, and they have a set of 16 photographs that are taken from different goat operations in 17 different parts of the country. So I believe it would be 18 something that would be positive, for us to help them just 19 by our endorsement. 20 MS. SAUM: So we have the motion before you 21 and a second. I think you guys have the handout that was 22 handed out to you on the Goats in America, to endorse this 23 project and send a letter in our support. 24 Is that letter going to come from Shirley? 25 (Simultaneous discussion) 934 1 MS. SAUM: From me. Okay. Just checking. 2 Rowe. 3 MS. ROWE: Just two questions. One, just 4 because I haven't had a chance to see the display materials 5 that they provided here, has anyone had a chance to see 6 those and are you comfortable with the material? 7 And, then, second, I do see some kind of 8 budget at the back. Are we dealing with that? 9 MS. SAUM: Daniel. 10 MR. DANIEL CONSIDINE: The budget hasn't 11 anything to do with us. I guess that's just their 12 explanation of what they're trying to do, and our 13 endorsement would possibly be helpful to them in getting 14 funding from the sources from which they are looking for 15 funding. 16 There were a dozen people, roughly, that had 17 just witnessed a display of their program, and two of them 18 Karyl Dronen and Larry Hedrick are here, and they told me 19 that they felt it was all positive and would be good for us. 20 MS. SAUM: Okay. So the motion is before you 21 to endorse Goats in America and send a letter of support; no 22 funding. 23 Bozzo, do you have a comment? 24 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: I, actually -- last 25 year, they were here. They came to the Convention and took 935 1 pictures. I went to the website. It made its way into one 2 of the district lists. It was a neat little site. I mean, 3 it had neat pictures. There was nothing, I felt, that was 4 objectionable on their website. It seemed like a really 5 neat project. 6 I have not gotten an opportunity, this year, 7 to go view it, but something that I think is a positive for 8 ADGA to be able to endorse. 9 MS. SAUM: Okay. Does anybody want to speak 10 in opposition to it? 11 (No response) 12 MS. SAUM: Okay. Let's go ahead and vote, 13 then. 14 All in favor of supporting this project, 15 please say "aye." 16 (All those in favor of the motion so 17 responded.) 18 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 19 (No response) 20 MS. SAUM: Any abstentions? 21 (No response) 22 MS. SAUM: Motion passed. 23 So we're going to go around the table for 24 motions. 25 Nixon. 936 1 MS. NIXON: I would like to thank those of you 2 that participated in Parliamentary Procedure 101. I think 3 it was helpful in day one -- 4 MS. SAUM: She even took a roll call, for 5 those of you who weren't there. 6 MS. NIXON: I think it was very helpful in 7 101, and it was very satisfying to hear so many of you quote 8 context. Unfortunately, I had to miss half of the session. 9 And I would like to thank Noah Goddard and Teri Coleman for 10 their donations that enabled us to have the session. 11 And I would like to know if you would like us 12 to make an effort to provide other parliamentary procedure 13 materials for you in the future. 14 MS. SAUM: I would think the Board would be 15 very receptive to receiving those. We did use a lot of her 16 concepts and stuff, I think, throughout the Board meeting, 17 and it did help, so -- I didn't have to invoke the 18 two-minute/two-time rule, so that was good. 19 Gustafson, do you have a motion? 20 MS. GUSTAFSON: I'd like to move that we go 21 ahead and put the Friday morning on next year's Convention 22 for the extension of the Board meeting. It seems like we're 23 going to be running that direction anyway. 24 MS. SAUM: Do we have a second to that motion? 25 MS. HENDRICKSON: Second. 937 1 MS. SAUM: Hendrickson is the second. 2 Rowe would like to speak to that. 3 MS. ROWE: I would speak in opposition of that 4 motion. We have advanced judges in other programs that do 5 appear on a regular basis during the -- and that are 6 required for attendance, and, also, I would prefer to see 7 this emphasis on parliamentary procedure and other things 8 that would allow us to become more efficient and reduce our 9 total Board time into a more appropriate length of meeting. 10 MS. SAUM: Senn. 11 MS. SENN: If it were -- let's see -- 12 encouraged would be the word, to have more timely reports 13 from our committees, having these kind of things coming 14 forward throughout the year, encourage -- I'm trying to use 15 a positive terminology here -- for the committee reports, we 16 could probably proceed and have the work in front of us 17 further ahead, and I think that that would be very, very 18 helpful, and if we put more attention on that as opposed to 19 doing a lot of committee work that we're doing here in the 20 actual -- in the meeting instead. 21 The other thing is a lot -- I do -- I would 22 encourage people, when you have -- I know that I do go to 23 talk to different Committee Chairs myself directly, and I 24 think that would help, if you communicate then so you bring 25 up problems throughout the year instead of waiting until we 938 1 come here and coming up with an issue that you've been aware 2 of for a very, very long time so that they can proceed to do 3 the work in committee as opposed to just doing it all here. 4 MS. SAUM: Cassette, did you want to address 5 that? I saw your hand up. 6 MR. PHILIP CASSETTE: I understand your 7 intent, Marsha, but I'm really concerned with the way you 8 worded it. In the past, we'd said as a Board that we need 9 to instruct the Annual Meeting Committee to have 10 arrangements for us to either work late at night and/or into 11 the next morning. 12 When you specifically say that the Board is 13 going to meet on Friday morning, we, in theory, could be 14 done Thursday night, and we're then -- we need to do 15 something Friday morning. So careful what -- the way I 16 heard you word it, the Board will meet Friday morning 17 whether it has any work to do or not, and I'm not sure that 18 was the intent, but, you know, let's just make sure that 19 what we're intending is to allow adequate time, so that if 20 we need to go to a third day, that the arrangements have 21 been made for that third day. 22 I think that's what you want to say. I'm not 23 sure that's the way it came out. 24 MS. SAUM: Marsha, do you want to accept an 25 amendment? 939 1 MS. GUSTAFSON: Yes. 2 MS. SAUM: That it be amended that we -- that 3 it's not mandatory that we meet on Friday, but leave that 4 option open, is that what you're asking? 5 MS. GUSTAFSON: That if the work cannot be 6 completed by seven o'clock. 7 (Simultaneous responses) 8 MS. GUSTAFSON: Okay. Somebody help me out. 9 I mean, give me some help here. 10 MS. SAUM: Hendrickson. 11 MS. HENDRICKSON: I think that because our 12 Association has grown so much since two days' worth of Board 13 meetings were sufficient, we need to really inform our 14 directors that they may be needed Friday morning. We lost a 15 director that booked a flight out. She's gone. 16 If you're a director and it's a possibility we 17 may go to Friday, you shouldn't be flying home Friday 18 morning. I think that we need to make it -- if not a set 19 time, at least, like Phil says, with the Annual Committee, 20 that if we do run over, we have a facility to meet the next 21 morning but that directors are informed, you know, don't 22 plan on leaving Thursday night or Friday morning. We may be 23 here Friday. And I think we need to be able to, you know, 24 maybe say something to these directors that do leave before 25 we're all done. 940 1 MS. SAUM: Reyna. 2 MS. REYNA: I don't think it necessarily would 3 have to be Friday morning. We could have, for example, 4 election of officers the night before we start the business 5 of the meeting. The point is that we are never done -- at 6 least no time that I've ever been on the Board have we ever 7 finished business, and we have -- and we have done some 8 very, very stupid things late at night. We have, I also 9 believe -- Robin doesn't agree with me, but -- 10 MS. SAUM: No. I'm saying we've done stupid 11 things in the morning, too. 12 (Laughter) 13 MS. REYNA: Well, that's true. That's 14 absolutely true. 15 MS. SAUM: We try to correct them by 16 nighttime. 17 MS. REYNA: But the other problem is that 18 every committee deserves the same hearing and the same 19 attention, and very often the last ones do not get the same 20 attention of the first, and I'm as guilty as anyone. I 21 think we simply -- our stipend is because we're directors, 22 and, basically, we are here because there's business to be 23 done. And however we do it, before or after, we need to 24 schedule the time to get the business done while avoiding 25 Board abuse. 941 1 MS. SAUM: Campbell was next and then Bozzo. 2 MS. CAMPBELL: I'll try not to abuse the time, 3 but, very briefly, I agree with the concept of having -- I 4 think we're already doing that by asking the Annual 5 Meeting -- Annual Committee -- Annual Meeting Committee to 6 put that in a potential plan. So I think we're working 7 towards that concept. This is the only time of the year 8 that we do meet and discuss business, and this is a very 9 important time of the year. 10 It may not have been popular, but one year I 11 did have the Board meet the night before, Tuesday evening, 12 and we covered everything up to elections. Whether that was 13 popular or not, you know, remains to be seen, but we did, I 14 think, handle it pretty efficiently by doing that. So I 15 think it's something we could certainly give consideration 16 where it wouldn't conflict with the Friday schedule, but the 17 fact is that we need to conduct business. 18 So whatever we can do to make it more 19 efficient and still remember that there may be years where 20 we have more, I think, would be appropriate, but I wouldn't 21 speak in favor of the motion because I think it does lock us 22 into something that is not what we want. 23 MS. SAUM: Any more discussion on the motion? 24 MS. GUSTAFSON: Withdraw. 25 MS. SAUM: Oh. Nevermind. She's withdrawing 942 1 the motion. 2 The next person down the table, I believe, was 3 Bitter. 4 MR. BITTER: I want to be last. 5 MS. SAUM: You want to be last. 6 (Laughter) 7 (Simultaneous discussion) 8 MS. SAUM: Petersen. 9 MS. PETERSEN: I just have a couple of 10 guidebook questions. 11 On Page 39, I was asked -- it says that if 12 you're submitting embryo transfer stuff, you need a DNA and 13 it's only $25, but the schedule of fees is $30. So they 14 were wondering why the embryo transfer DNA typing was less, 15 or is it a mistake? 16 MS. SAUM: Would you like to amend that to 17 current fee? 18 MS. PETERSEN: Yes, I would. 19 MS. CAMPBELL: Second. 20 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Question. 21 MS. SAUM: Second by Campbell. 22 So we have before you -- question has been 23 called -- to amend embryo offspring to ADGA with a fee of 24 $25 each to make that current fee -- with the current fee 25 and no dollar amount. 943 1 We all know where we are? 2 (No verbal response) 3 MS. SAUM: Okay. All in favor say "aye." 4 (All those in favor of the motion so 5 responded.) 6 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 7 (No response) 8 MS. SAUM: Do I hear a "no"? 9 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: No. 10 MS. SAUM: Oh. You're telling her no. 11 Okay. Any abstentions? 12 (No response) 13 MS. SAUM: Motion passed. 14 MS. PETERSEN: Anyways, the other thing I 15 actually -- probably, it should have been brought up in 16 CB&L, but -- anyways, it was brought up by somebody who was 17 looking at committees to apply for, and our committee list 18 in our guidebook on Page 15 is not totally accurate and -- 19 because Education and Promotional was put together. There's 20 a Tattoo one on that's not in our current list of ones that 21 are done, and there's no Product Committee on the list at 22 all. 23 MS. SAUM: I had two things: Education needs 24 to go down with Promotion and Products needs to be added. 25 Did I miss anything else? 944 1 MS. PETERSEN: No. 25 is Tattoo. Is there a 2 Tattoo Committee? 3 (Simultaneous discussion) 4 MS. PETERSEN: Oh, yeah. There is an add, 5 Annual Meeting Long Range needs to be added to No. 1, too. 6 MS. SAUM: Would you make a motion to just 7 revise it to reflect current committees? 8 MS. PETERSEN: Yes. 9 MS. SAUM: And there was a second to that. 10 Rucker. 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Question. 12 MS. SAUM: Question has been called. 13 All in favor of revising the committee list to 14 the current committees we have, please say "aye." 15 (All those in favor of the motion so 16 responded.) 17 MS. SAUM: Any opposed? 18 (No response) 19 MS. SAUM: Objections? 20 (No response) 21 MS. SAUM: Okay. Motion passed. 22 Rucker, did you have -- no. No? No? 23 (Laughter) 24 MS. SAUM: Hendrickson. 25 MS. HENDRICKSON: One little tiny bit. Page 945 1 110 in the ADGA scorecard under "Rear Udder." We have a -- 2 just a -- it was a mistyped word, I'm sure. It needs to be 3 changed. It says "capacious, high, wide, and arched into 4 the escutcheon; uniformity wide" should be "uniformly." 5 (Laughter) 6 MS. HENDRICKSON: I do believe that is just 7 something that Shirley can get changed without Board action. 8 It's just a housekeeping issue. Am I correct in assuming 9 that? 10 (Simultaneous discussion) 11 MS. HENDRICKSON: But it is on the test. I 12 think it needs to be correct here. 13 MS. SAUM: I'm just taking notes. Anything 14 else, Pat? Is that all? 15 Where else were we for motions? 16 Strickland is next. 17 MS. STRICKLAND: We approved straw colors for 18 Nigerians and Sables, and I don't believe that we made -- 19 took any action to reflect that in the rules governing 20 registration for AI on Page 38 where it lists the name or 21 color number -- color code for the breeding unit. This is 22 K.4.d. So, again, I think housekeeping. 23 MS. SAUM: So we need to add straw color to 24 4d. 25 MS. STRICKLAND: For Nigerians and Sables. 946 1 MS. SAUM: We're going around the table for 2 motions. 3 Okay. Daubert. 4 MR. DAUBERT: Those kinds of things in all of 5 the new breeds will be taken care of in the rewrite. 6 MS. SAUM: Anything else, Strickland? 7 MS. STRICKLAND: Yes. I'd like to see some -- 8 maybe modifications or -- in the committee packet that goes 9 out that might include the form like we got in Parliamentary 10 Procedure 101 about motions and what they should include so 11 that, hopefully, as the committees are bringing action to 12 us, it's in the form that has enough detail that we'd like 13 to see. 14 I'd also like to have the Executive Committee 15 look at committee size in come cases or what can be done if 16 you have a committee that's, say, 15 people and 8 of them 17 are really active and working, you know, the votes, then, if 18 you don't have a quorum of the number, can you still proceed 19 and get work done with that part of the committee that is 20 working? 21 I realize that's a problem if you have a 22 little committee, but I would like to see some more input 23 into the committee in that respect. 24 And lastly, there was a mention of, perhaps, 25 having on the website an area where Committee Chairs could 947 1 submit electronically to Andrea ongoing work. This is what 2 we're talking about so that the membership -- and alerting 3 the membership so that the membership knows what's being 4 discussed, and if they have strong feelings, they can get -- 5 you know, or feelings or opinions, they can contact their 6 director or those committees and the input from the 7 membership can be received before we get to Convention. 8 MS. SAUM: Berry. 9 MS. BERRY: I just want to respond to that. 10 Actually, this already exists, in that any Committee 11 Chairman -- you can add members or delete members from a 12 committee during the year as is appropriate, and you can 13 certainly use the website, which I did last year, and Andrea 14 did a wonderful job. So it's really up to the proactive 15 Chairman to take the reins and take what action is needed to 16 make the committee functional. 17 MS. SAUM: Reyna. 18 MS. REYNA: I'd like a little clarification 19 here. 20 I did not know one could add or subtract 21 members. And who decides that? And I have ended up with 22 people on a committee that I specifically had said were 23 totally nonactive and they come right back anyway. 24 MS. SAUM: Okay. Shari, the president is the 25 one who can add and subtract members for you during the 948 1 year, not the Committee Chair, but the Committee Chair can 2 request that of the president at any time during the year. 3 This year Lelia had asked for a committee 4 member to be added, Donna Palmer. She wasn't on her 5 original committee, but Donna was doing a lot of work and 6 didn't have a vote on her committee, so she was added during 7 the year. I think it was mid year, like June. It was way 8 into the year. 9 MS. BERRY: It was like March, I think. 10 MS. SAUM: Was it that early? Oh, okay. 11 MS. STRICKLAND: I just trying to see if some 12 of this education to our committee people can happen so that 13 we're more aware of what's possible or not possible and how 14 to do things. 15 MS. SAUM: Campbell. 16 MS. CAMPBELL: Parliamentarily speaking, when 17 the committee responds, you take the majority of votes cast. 18 Just as we're on the Board, we would have the majority of 19 votes cast to determine the end result. So of the majority 20 of those members who respond to you with a vote and cast a 21 vote, that would be the decision. 22 I mean, there could be -- we certainly want to 23 have adequate time to respond, but, actually, that is, if 24 they don't cast a vote, they are not in part of the total 25 picture of numbers of votes. 949 1 MS. SAUM: Strickland. 2 MS. STRICKLAND: My comment would be that we 3 tend as a Board, I think, sometimes to look and say, "Oh, 4 well, look, half of that committee never even participated, 5 so this isn't a valid representation of work that should 6 have been done," and I think that's -- and sometimes we do 7 that, but knowing that if we're going to approach it on the 8 basis of the majority of the votes cast makes it a different 9 aspect. 10 MS. SAUM: Okay. Do you have any more 11 motions? 12 (No verbal response) 13 MS. SAUM: Okay. I'm going around the table. 14 Who over on this side wanted new business motions? 15 (No response) 16 MS. SAUM: No one? 17 Oh. I know Linda has a list. She's next to 18 last. I think Shirley has something to say. 19 MS. McKENZIE: Yes. I wanted to recognize our 20 new Youth Representative, Jimmy Young, from Ohio. He's 21 already begun taking on responsibilities and he's been most 22 helpful in copying and distributing reports to the Board 23 during this meeting, and we do appreciate his assistance 24 very much. 25 (Applause) 950 1 MS. SAUM: Proctor. 2 MS. PROCTOR: I would like someone to address 3 briefly the International Registry Association, not to be 4 confused with the other one. 5 I've talked to -- you (indicating). She can 6 address it. I want to know something. I want to know when 7 we joined it and if we pay anything to belong to it and what 8 it does -- the foreign one. 9 (Simultaneous discussion) 10 MS. PROCTOR: We belong to something that I'd 11 like to know more about. It's overseas. It consists of 12 countries, and I have a little problem finding out. 13 MS. CAMPBELL: I wish I had the name, Vivian, 14 but it's just escaping me, but what it is, it's the magazine 15 that has a scientific magazine that -- basically, it's 16 research about goats around the world that's contributed to. 17 MS. SAUM: Rowe. 18 MS. ROWE: Would that be the International 19 Goat Association? The publication associated with it is 20 Small Ruminant Research. 21 MS. CAMPBELL: Small Ruminant Research. Thank 22 you, Joanie. It was escaping me, but that's what it is, 23 Vivian. 24 MS. PROCTOR: Is this the one that's a group 25 of countries that belong, like Cameroon? 951 1 MS. ROWE: It's a membership association. 2 It's not countries. There are institutions and personal 3 memberships. 4 MS. PROCTOR: Well, we were given a $500 5 membership this year, and that did away with whatever else 6 we had. So I thought we needed to kind of know what we 7 belong to. 8 MS. CAMPBELL: Have we answered your 9 questions? 10 What we receive is a magazine and we are -- 11 MS. PROCTOR: I've never seen it. 12 MS. CAMPBELL: We'll make it available for 13 Vivian to review. 14 MS. SAUM: Do you have those magazines, 15 Shirley? 16 MS. McKENZIE: Yes. 17 MS. SAUM: Oh. Can you forward them to 18 Vivian? 19 There we go. 20 Okay. Anybody else on this side that wanted a 21 new motion? 22 (No response) 23 MS. SAUM: Okay. Campbell. 24 (Simultaneous discussion) 25 MS. SAUM: Oh. He wasn't paying attention. 952 1 Vivian is taking proxies. 2 MR. ALTHEIDE: I might have been out of the 3 room. 4 MS. SAUM: You must have been. 5 MS. CAMPBELL: Well, since Laurie and Chris 6 covered some of mine, it's even shorter. 7 So I only have one motion, that we direct the 8 Membership Committee to look at the possibility of changing 9 the language from "junior member" to "youth member." 10 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Second. 11 MS. SAUM: Motion seconded by Bozzo. 12 MR. RUCKER: Question. 13 MS. SAUM: Okay. Motion to refer to the 14 Membership meeting, the possibility of changing "junior 15 member" to "youth member." 16 All in favor say "aye." 17 (All those in favor of the motion so 18 responded.) 19 MS. SAUM: Opposed, "no." 20 (No response) 21 MS. SAUM: Any abstentions? 22 (No response) 23 MS. SAUM: No abstentions. 24 Campbell. 25 MS. CAMPBELL: Just one other comment for the 953 1 minutes. I just wanted to make note, the Products 2 reception, which some us enjoyed several nights ago, the 3 Best in Show Award went to a Nigerian Dwarf breeder for 4 their products -- their cheese product. 5 (Applause) 6 MS. SAUM: Reyna. 7 MS. REYNA: Sorry you had to come back around 8 the table. 9 MS. SAUM: That's okay. 10 MS. REYNA: But you mentioned proxies. 11 When are we going put this to some committee 12 and stop this? I'm carrying one, and it isn't even from my 13 district. 14 MS. SAUM: What committee, Vivian, is the 15 proper committee for that? Do we know? 16 MS. REYNA: Membership, something. This is an 17 absurd thing that we keep going through. 18 MS. SAUM: Does anybody know what committee? 19 (Simultaneous responses) 20 MS. SAUM: Is it in the Constitution? So 21 Constitution and Bylaws. 22 Dean. 23 MS. DEAN: Sorry I missed my turn. I had to 24 step outside. 25 MS. SAUM: That's okay. 954 1 MS. DEAN: It was brought up to me by Andrea 2 who works very hard on the National Show Trading Cards on 3 the website -- and I guess this should, maybe, be referred 4 to National Show Committee or to National Show Long Range. 5 I'm not sure which committee. Maybe both. 6 Currently, the photographs that are taken by 7 the National Show photographer have not necessarily always 8 been reviewed by the owner of the animals, and, also, they 9 sort of want some direction on those photos and who owns 10 them once they've been approved for printing on the shirts 11 and on the cards. 12 So whether that's a motion to refer -- I'm 13 assuming. I just want to know which committee. 14 MS. SAUM: I think that's two committees. One 15 is National Show, because you would be reviewing the photos 16 there -- or shortly thereafter, and then who owns them would 17 probably be Publicity. 18 So, Helen, there's work for you. 19 Anyone else? 20 (No response) 21 MS. SAUM: All right. Has everybody had their 22 opportunity to two times and two minutes and no more new 23 motions or anything like that? 24 I want to say thank you to everybody. We've 25 worked really hard. We've been here two and a half days, 955 1 and I think everybody has been very patient with everybody 2 else and -- do you have a motion, Strickland? 3 MS. STRICKLAND: No comment. 4 MR. BITTER: I move we adjourn. 5 MS. HENDRICKSON: Second. 6 MS. BOZZO-BALDENEGRO: Second. 7 (Laughter) 8 (Applause) 9 (Adjourned) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 956 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2 CERTIFICATION OF THE 3 BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING 4 AMERICAN DAIRY GOAT ASSOCIATION 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 6 7 I, PATRICIA GONZALEZ, Certified 8 Shorthand Reporter, State of Texas, hereby certify that a 9 verbatim record was made of said proceedings and that the 10 original transcript has been delivered to Shirley McKenzie, 11 Association Manager, American Dairy Goat Association, and 12 that the cost for this transcript is . 13 CHARGED TO: ADGA 14 Given under my hand and seal of office 15 on this the day of . 16 17 18 PATRICIA GONZALEZ 19 Texas CSR No. 6367 3215 F.M. 1339 20 Kingsbury, Texas 78638 (512) 751-2618 21 22 23 24 25